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Is Clowe the best non-heavyweight fighter in the NHL?

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:28 AM
  #26
Kaoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub_zero94 View Post
as a Shark fan, the first time I noticed how much of a beast Clowe was, was during an Anaheim SJ game. Anaheim was pretty much dominationg, and Shawn Thornton took a run at Marleau, and Clowe answered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O85g9cXQPyM&feature=fvst
the game turned after that point
Clowe is bigger then Thornton. Going the distance with him doesn't imply beastiness imo, most guys who scrap at all can and will go the distance with him. I don't remember the last time Thornton knocked someone out, if ever. That said, Thornton rarely rarely loses, and he does fight ALL the legit heavies in the league. If you're talking about best middle weights, Thornton is in the conversation.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:29 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
That's all cool and dandy. No worries.

Just for future cases... "heavyweight" is a term gotten from boxing inferring about their weight, and nothing else. Not their fighting skill. Not how often they fight. Not who they fight. Weight only.

You can't just go around changing the meaning of the word. For example, in UFC, heavyweight is 205-265 lbs.

Though in UFC the weight seems to be skewed down too much in the light weights.

I would generally say in the nhl...

199 and under= lightweight
200-219= middleweight
220 and over= heavyweight

I'm sure most would agree ROUGHLY with those classes.
I'd consider Cam Janssen a heavyweight even though he is under 6'0 and only 205 pounds. Andy Sutton is 6'6 240+ but I wouldn't call him a heavyweight by any means.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:36 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
Some people use fighting ability vs size to determinate heavyweights you know..
Tie Domi who was only 5.10 207 could be considered an heavyweight because he fought anybody. Milan Lucic who is 6.4 220 I would consider a Light-Heavyweight because despite his size he doesn't fight real heavyweights that often.
Why would you even use that term then? Heavyweight means HEAVY WEIGHT. It means weighing a lot. it's an expression from boxing which means the heaviest fighters. Tie domi was one of the best fighters of his time. One of the best enforcers. He was NOT a heavyweight. The only way domi is a heavyweight is if he was in the UFC where 205+ gets you in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macleod50 View Post
As 68 pointed out, it's not all based on weight when it comes to hockey fights. Domi is the best example of being a smaller guy who could be classified as a heavy. Go to hockeyfights.com and say Clowe is a heavyweight and prepared to get laughed off the board.

And Souray is a damn good fighter for a guy that doesn't do it often.
I wouldn't refer to clowe as a heavy weight because he's not a fighter...But as i stated earlier in this thread, if you're going to talk about fighting, he is in the heavy weight end of the scale.

If i went to hockeyfights i would probably word it like Eytinge did when he corrected himself.

Clowe is a heavyweight non-enforcer. Meaning of the players who's job isn't to fight, and don't fight that often, he is a heavyweight. He'd be in the lucic category...or what chris gratton was...or bertuzzi... Basically they don't fight a lot, but when they do, they're all big boys that can do some damage.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:44 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
I'd consider Cam Janssen a heavyweight even though he is under 6'0 and only 205 pounds. Andy Sutton is 6'6 240+ but I wouldn't call him a heavyweight by any means.
Janssen is not a heavyweight. he only weighs 205 pounds. He's a middleweight who fights heavyweights.

Sutton rarely fights. He shouldn't be talked about. He's a non enforcer heavyweight. Like hal gill.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heavyweight

Every single definition has to do with weight. It's a term meaning weight only. Has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with who you fight or how often you fight.


Last edited by jbeck5: 11-04-2011 at 12:34 PM.
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Old
11-04-2011, 11:50 AM
  #30
Danish Pastry
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guys i dont think he meant heavyweight in the way you are all taking it... i think he meant it in the non enforcer type of way... as in clowe isnt a spot filling goon but a great player that can also fight...

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:53 AM
  #31
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I think that Clowe is showing that he may be one of the best pure power forwards in the league in the classic sense of the term.

Big, Strong, can score, set up his teammates, uses his size, fights

Not to many guys out there that can provide you all that he does with his size.

Lucic is another guy that fits that mold.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:12 PM
  #32
Rob Scuderi
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Originally Posted by SharkLoc91 View Post
It was a close fight, i would call it a draw. England threw more but they weren't connecting, they both connected the same amount of punches. Neither had full control of the fight.
I agree with this fully and even thought Clowe was about to win a few times. Engelland held on well and pulled out a draw.

Also if Clowe isn't a heavyweight I'm not sure how Engelland is, unless not many people consider him one either.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:14 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Does Engelland count as a borderline non-heavyweight? he weighs a few pounds less than Neil.
Sure why not?



Solid fight, too. Their fight in 2011 wasn't as good.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:20 PM
  #34
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jaaaaaaaaaaaaay rosehill

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Sure why not?



Solid fight, too. Their fight in 2011 wasn't as good.
that was a long one, best punch is landed right at the start though.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:39 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
Nathan Horton seems to clobber everyone whenever he fights as well.
Really? Tim Gleason has manhandled him every time they've fought. Haven't seen Horton fight much outside of those bouts, though.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:45 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeLeafer11 View Post
Clowe is a heavyweight. Mike Brown is definitely in contention for best non-heavyweight fighter.
He beats up tom K and Kris Newbury, Kostopolous is the punching bag of the league and Newbury is brutal too.

Cool your jets on Brown lol

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:49 PM
  #38
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Clowe is the most talented heavyweight :p

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:53 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Engelland threw more and landed slightly more along with giving Clowe a nice shiner. Clowe's freak strength meant that he was able to stop Engelland from landing more clean punches.
I think Clowe had the Shiner before the game, i remember seeing him with it the last game. Yes Engelland threw more, but Clowe was able to block them. They both threw and connected with pretty much the same amount, neither doing much damage. It was definitely a battle.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:58 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I agree with this fully and even thought Clowe was about to win a few times. Engelland held on well and pulled out a draw.

Also if Clowe isn't a heavyweight I'm not sure how Engelland is, unless not many people consider him one either.
Yes i also do feel if the fight had kept going, Clowe would have gotten the upper hand and won. Especially since the end of the fight is when Clowe gained some control.


Isn't it possible to fight like a heavy weight? Tie Domi was far from it size wise, but the way he fought and the guys he fought tell a different story.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:58 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Janssen is not a heavyweight. he only weighs 205 pounds. He's a middleweight who fights heavyweights.

Sutton rarely fights. He shouldn't be talked about. He's a non enforcer heavyweight. Like hal gill.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heavyweight

Every single definition has to do with weight. It's a term meaning weight only. Has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with who you fight or how often you fight.

Easy buddy, the terms "heavyweight" and "enforcer" are often used interchangeably when referring to hockey fighters because guys the size of Tie Domi and Rob Ray are allowed to fight guys the size of Chara if they want to, so it's just a way to describe the fighting ability of a player. No one's gonna use terms like "non-enforcer heavyweight" or lightweight enforcer" to describe a fighter.


And yes, Clowe has to be in the conversation for best non-heavyweight fighter. Because of him and Murray, there's been no need for a legit enforcer on this team for many years.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:14 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Marchands Nose View Post
^


Mr. Glass-Hand?

On a serious note, yes, clowe is definitely a good fighter
He's flat out knocked people silly with those glass hands. He has to be in any conversation about best non-heavyweight fighters.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:14 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Easy buddy, the terms "heavyweight" and "enforcer" are often used interchangeably when referring to hockey fighters because guys the size of Tie Domi and Rob Ray are allowed to fight guys the size of Chara if they want to, so it's just a way to describe the fighting ability of a player. No one's gonna use terms like "non-enforcer heavyweight" or lightweight enforcer" to describe a fighter.


And yes, Clowe has to be in the conversation for best non-heavyweight fighter. Because of him and Murray, there's been no need for a legit enforcer on this team for many years.
Funny how the definition says i'm right and you're wrong. It even has a separate part for "other sports" and it still only mentions weight.

Why would people not use those terms? It clarifies A LOT. If you don't use those terms then there is a lot more grey area.

Giving 6 classes...heavyweight,middle weight, and lightweight for enforcers and non enforcers makes the most sense to describe someone.

In your definition, hal gil is a lightweight/middleweight because he never fights...but he's still almost 250. If you call him a heavyweight non enforcer, it describes him a lot better.

If you say domie is a heavyweight, people will think he's a big guy. Calling him a middleweight enforcer doesn't leave anything to be answered. It shows he fought a lot, but wasn't the biggest guy.


Last edited by jbeck5: 11-04-2011 at 01:20 PM.
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Old
11-04-2011, 01:33 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
Nathan Horton seems to clobber everyone whenever he fights as well.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:37 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
great fight.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:39 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
Yea, probably him or Sheldon Souray.

Lucic is pretty decent too. Nathan Horton seems to clobber everyone whenever he fights as well.
See Horton vs Zach Smith. Lucic is the best I will hit you before your gloves are off or whilst you arent expecting it fighter. Clowe is technically really good but 6-2 200+ should put him with the heavies.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:40 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
great fight.
Yeah I love Zack Smith. So glad to have him. Not only is he a great agitator but he's got some skill too. This fight made me like him even more though what a battle. Props to Horton for sticking in there as he took some pretty nice pops.

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Old
11-04-2011, 02:02 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by facts View Post
See Horton vs Zach Smith. Lucic is the best I will hit you before your gloves are off or whilst you arent expecting it fighter. Clowe is technically really good but 6-2 200+ should put him with the heavies.
Nah, Mike Brown is the world champion of "hit you before your gloves are off and fall before you can retaliate".

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Old
11-04-2011, 02:09 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by dafoomie View Post
Nah, Mike Brown is the world champion of "hit you before your gloves are off and fall before you can retaliate".
It's funny every time I've seen Brown fight he just puts his head down and throws punches.

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Old
11-04-2011, 02:58 PM
  #50
Gene Parmesan
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Ryane Clowe earned his way into the NHL with his physical play and fisticuffs. No Sharks fan ever thought he'd become what he is. He's a good fighter but a better player and leader. I think one of the best things about him is that he still plays like he has something to prove to everyone.

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