HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

What's wrong with Paajarvi??

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-04-2011, 12:47 PM
  #26
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,421
vCash: 500
I do find it somewhat amusing that we are all so quick to dump on Paajarvi's offensive game while we have a guy like Belanger that has been around the league as long as he has and has been a consistent 35ish point getter and he also has a lone point. At some point he has to shoulder some of the load as well. IMO Gagner hasn't used his linemates very well and still looks rusty/crappy, the line as a whole leaves a lot to be desired. I can't be the only one that sees more offensive upside in Lander than in Belanger, that and Lander would compliment Paajarvi more on the cycle.

Right now the 3rd line consists of:

Paajarvi-Likes to get the puck with speed and cycle the puck.

Gagner-Likes to control the puck, keep it on his stick almost at all times, not very good at supporting the cycle.

Belanger-I'm not even sure how I'd try to describe his offensive game, maybe a hodge podge of trying to carry it on the rush and ?

It's just a match made in hell IMO.

IMO we need to see something like:

Omark-Lander-Paajarvi

Hartikainen-Lander-Paajarvi

Paajarvi-Lander-Hemsky

Paajarvi-Lander-Petrell

You really should play guys together than are on the same page and Belanger at this point IMO has a 4th line skill set and while I really appreciate the fact that he signed here for 3 years at reasonable coin, he should get a downgrade in wingers.

The biggest problems right now are what to do with Gagner and ultimately Hemsky, things could get really ugly when they are both in the lineup. There is no chemistry that I can see coming for the top 9 with both in the lineup. The Oilers are overloaded with forwards in the NHL and the AHL, it's about time that moves are made.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 12:48 PM
  #27
Nacho
Special
 
Nacho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Greenland
Posts: 2,012
vCash: 500
So the fact that Magnus is an average hockey player hasnt sunk in yet?

Nacho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 12:50 PM
  #28
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho View Post
So the fact that Magnus is an average hockey player hasnt sunk in yet?
He has played better than this without your precious Omark before so regardless of what people may think of his game this is obviously an offensive slump for him.

Bryanbryoil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 12:51 PM
  #29
Soli
Moderator
Supervision Required
 
Soli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,779
vCash: 500
I start feeding him some more PK time... mostly out of necessity to keep 3 PK pairs somewhat rolling. I think Lander will be a victim of the numbers when Hemsky gets back.

Speaking of Hemsky, you stick him with 91 - 89 and let the offense grow.

Worrisome?... somewhat.

Problematic?... not yet.

Soli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 12:51 PM
  #30
YoungGuns
The Taylor Hall Show
 
YoungGuns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,599
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho View Post
So the fact that Magnus is an average hockey player hasnt sunk in yet?
still a million times the player omark is

YoungGuns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:01 PM
  #31
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli View Post
I start feeding him some more PK time... mostly out of necessity to keep 3 PK pairs somewhat rolling. I think Lander will be a victim of the numbers when Hemsky gets back.

Speaking of Hemsky, you stick him with 91 - 89 and let the offense grow.

Worrisome?... somewhat.

Problematic?... not yet.
I have my doubts that that line would work. That said he needs a break from Belanger and maybe vice versa.

Bryanbryoil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:12 PM
  #32
Soli
Moderator
Supervision Required
 
Soli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I have my doubts that that line would work. That said he needs a break from Belanger and maybe vice versa.
It couldn't be any worse than 91 - 20 - 89. Heh.

To be honest... I don't think I'd blink if Hartikainen replaced Paajarvi and was shipped for a Weber-type defenseman... such as Shea Weber.

Soli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:16 PM
  #33
dustrock
Too Legit To Quit
 
dustrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,497
vCash: 500
He has made some pretty questionable offensive decisions (or lack thereof) this season, to be sure.

But he's extremely responsible defensively, and has size and speed.

I'd like to see him work on his shot and even getting some more shots, but I think it's pretty early to write him off as an "average" player.

dustrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:17 PM
  #34
stratedge
Rebuild, year 4...
 
stratedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,205
vCash: 50
So while watching the game yesterday against the Kings, something regarding MPS popped out for me. I mean I had been debating this for a while but yesterday it really solidified.

Paajarvi isn't doing well on this line because Sam Gagner won't get dirty, and Belanger totally lacks offensive instincts.

Belanger is a given. But has anyone ever noticed how Gagner never goes anywhere near the net? Ever seen him get shoved by a defenseman as the goalie freezes the puck? No, because he's never close enough that defensemen can reach him. He just sort of circles the periphery.

Now look at MPS... a handful of times every game, he goes fast, goes wide, and throws a good hard low shot on net. Yesterday against the kings, he did this up the right side, threw a backhand into the pads and it popped 5 feet out into the slot just waiting for a Hall, and Eberle, a Smyth, a Horcoff, hell even a RNH or a Jones or a Gilbert or even the 4th line guys would have gotten in there and popped that juicy rebound home. But when a puck is sitting loose in the slot for a moment, Gagner and Belanger are NEVER there waiting for it, they're only reacting and trying to get there, too late.

Are we surprised? They're both centres who almost never get caught too deep in the zone when the other team counter attacks. Getting tangled up in front of the net isn't in their play book. It's not in their instincts.

Here's the conclusion of my thesis on MPS:

MPS would do excellent with Smyth and Horcoff. Put him on the right wing there and I think he'd assist on a lot of goals that Smyth and Horcoff would put home. I know that Jones has been good with them, but I think Jones on the third line and MPS on the second is better than Jones on the 2nd and MPS on the third. Because while Jones is just fine with them, I think long term MPS would be slightly better there. And a more certain statement in my mind, Jones would do far better on the third line than MPS has been doing. I think it's the only way we get 3 scoring lines rather than 2.

But, we're winning, so I'm not holding my breath for change any time soon.

stratedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:20 PM
  #35
Oilerz
Registered User
 
Oilerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: River City. E-Town
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBusDriver View Post
Snake bit. Bad line chem. 3rd line minutes with little PP time. Also, hes never been a good shooter, about 7% career.

I think when Hemmer gets back, if they create a line of 91-89-83, hell get some points.
I believe Renney said Hemsky will play with Smyth and Horcoff, but don't ask me to prove it......

Oilerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:23 PM
  #36
plikestechno
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Magnus needs to get greasy and go to the hard areas in front of the net. He's big enough.

Gagner likes to make things happen from the perimeter. Can't have two of those guys on the same line.

Sometimes I wonder with Magnus if he's so concerned with his defensive positioning that he's afraid to pinch and take chances. Doesn't force a lot of turnovers but always plays his man well.

I'll agree that Belanger and Gagner aren't helping the cause but we shouldn't be messing up the other lines to accomodate Magnus. Sam managed to make something happen on the cluster-f line a few times last night, so can Magnus.


Last edited by plikestechno: 11-04-2011 at 01:28 PM.
plikestechno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:24 PM
  #37
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I do find it somewhat amusing that we are all so quick to dump on Paajarvi's offensive game while we have a guy like Belanger that has been around the league as long as he has and has been a consistent 35ish point getter and he also has a lone point. At some point he has to shoulder some of the load as well. IMO Gagner hasn't used his linemates very well and still looks rusty/crappy, the line as a whole leaves a lot to be desired. I can't be the only one that sees more offensive upside in Lander than in Belanger, that and Lander would compliment Paajarvi more on the cycle.

Right now the 3rd line consists of:

Paajarvi-Likes to get the puck with speed and cycle the puck.

Gagner-Likes to control the puck, keep it on his stick almost at all times, not very good at supporting the cycle.

Belanger-I'm not even sure how I'd try to describe his offensive game, maybe a hodge podge of trying to carry it on the rush and ?

It's just a match made in hell IMO.

IMO we need to see something like:

Omark-Lander-Paajarvi

Hartikainen-Lander-Paajarvi

Paajarvi-Lander-Hemsky

Paajarvi-Lander-Petrell

You really should play guys together than are on the same page and Belanger at this point IMO has a 4th line skill set and while I really appreciate the fact that he signed here for 3 years at reasonable coin, he should get a downgrade in wingers.

The biggest problems right now are what to do with Gagner and ultimately Hemsky, things could get really ugly when they are both in the lineup. There is no chemistry that I can see coming for the top 9 with both in the lineup. The Oilers are overloaded with forwards in the NHL and the AHL, it's about time that moves are made.
Agree that Belanger has stone hands so far as Gagner he's needing somebody to pass the puck to. MPS is running, for lack of words, some curious offensive zone support. He's just not getting into good positions for a pass. Watch Gagner with Horcoff and Smyth(and this line transition has happened a number of times) and all of a sudden Gagners working out really well on the cycle.
Gagner is a give and go cycle player. jebus do you forget the kidline? Give him players who can cycle and he'll cycle AND do it downlow in dangerous areas. Gagner's best game is predicated on distributing the puck.

A cycle requires players that cycle. MPS for whatever reason is having trouble with that. Well, Belanger too and the Puck is a handgrenade to him right now which is strange as he was showing better touch in TC.

Replacement is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:38 PM
  #38
stratedge
Rebuild, year 4...
 
stratedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,205
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by plikestechno View Post
Magnus needs to get greasy and go to the hard areas in front of the net. He's big enough.

Gagner likes to make things happen from the perimeter. Can't have two of those guys on the same line.

Sometimes I wonder with Magnus if he's so concerned with his defensive positioning that he's afraid to pinch and take chances. Doesn't force a lot of turnovers but always plays his man well.

I'll agree that Belanger and Gagner aren't helping the cause but we shouldn't be messing up the other lines to accomodate Magnus. Sam managed to make something happen on the cluster-f line a few times last night, so can Magnus.
I agree so whole heartedly. I mentioned in my little diatribe that Gagner never gets dirty, but I forget to mention that MPS is guilty of this too. Very much so.

It's 3 guys on that line with who never get near the net, and all have bad shots from the perimeter. Now mind you, we know that on paper MPS could have a good shot, but when's the last time he used it other than on the rush? The comments about his positioning without the puck while in the offensive zone are bang on, he's unpredictable and never sets himself up for the one timer.

Right now the 3rd line is less than the sum of it's parts.

stratedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:39 PM
  #39
CornKicker
Locked Out
 
CornKicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,865
vCash: 50
nothing is wrong with PRV, he told me yesterday that he isnt getting points right now because he doesnt need to, he said if the team is down a goal or if hall/ebs/rnh start to struggle he will pop a few but he doesnt want to waste his goals on games we are already winning. he also said he is ssaving his goals for the playoffs.

CornKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 01:44 PM
  #40
Valic
BOOOOOOOOOO
 
Valic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,171
vCash: 500
I thought he had an above average game last night, just no points. He drew a good penalty and created a couple scoring chances on his own.

Valic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 02:03 PM
  #41
aseef26
Registered User
 
aseef26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 68
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by czar99 View Post
I think that when Hemsky comes back a few thing should get shuffled a bit. This is what I'd like to see going forward.


Hall - RNH - Eberle
Paajarvi - Gagner - Hemsky
Smyth - Horcoff - Jones
Eager - Belanger - Petrell

Lander to OKC.

I think this is how they should roll going forward.

Also PRV likes to drive wide right to the net and curl back into the crease for the jamb play. I think he would do well with a huge line mate that can park himself in front of the net to bang in the cross crease feeds.
Imo we have 4 first line players, and 3 of them are playing with each other. Why not balance out the scoring b/c most nights this team is a one line threat. One swap Hopkins for Gagner. I'd be super curious to see this lineup perform:

MP Hopkins Hemsky-- This will get MP going big time, Hopkins can play with anyone.
Hall Gagner Eberle -- have shown good chemstry in the past, and Hall will own this line, which is what he needs (I think, anyway).
Smyth Horcoff Jones-- if it's working, no need to add Hemmer to this line, let these guys do their thing
Eager Belanger Petrell-- this will help Belangers game a lot and get Eager more minutes

I doubt we'll see the kids split up, but from what I saw of Hopkins/Hemsky, I think MP could be the right fit, and that gives us the balanced attack that other teams will have a hard time matching up against

Lander to OKC to cheer Omark up but he definitely doesn't deserve to go down. tough call

aseef26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 02:14 PM
  #42
plikestechno
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
"Balancing" lines never works. I'd call it "diluting" lines. We don't need to break up our good lines because some guys are struggling.

plikestechno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 02:21 PM
  #43
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,824
vCash: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
I thought he had an above average game last night, just no points. He drew a good penalty and created a couple scoring chances on his own.
Exactly. Despite his lack of any points, he's actually been playing very well. the points will come. Ebs went through the same thing at the start of the year where he couldn't score... But he had Hall and RNH. PRV will get points soon enough. There's nothing "wrong with Paajarvi".

The Nuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 02:53 PM
  #44
Rafters
Registered User
 
Rafters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Medicine Hat
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerz View Post
I believe Renney said Hemsky will play with Smyth and Horcoff, but don't ask me to prove it......
I get the feeling prv and eager will be splitting 4 th line time with lander and petrell when hemmer gets back

Hall- rnh-ebs
Smyth-horc-hemsky
Jones-Belanger-gags/petrell
Prv/eager-lander-petrell/gags

Rafters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 03:29 PM
  #45
aseef26
Registered User
 
aseef26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 68
vCash: 500
I don't know. I'm not sure there's anything 'diluted' about a hemsky/hopkins pairing and from everything I've seen of the Hall/Eberle tandem, they don't need much more than a Gagner type to make magic happen.

That said, I'm not averse to watching the kids play and continue to develop their chemistry, obviously. I am skeptical that MP Gagner and Hemsky will be leaps and bounds better than Belanger/Gagner/MP. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Hemsky draws in anyway, somethings gotta give, and at least one of the lines will change if not more.

aseef26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 03:31 PM
  #46
Agent Zero
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EDM
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,505
vCash: 500
Personally I don't think Gagner would be a good fit centering Hemsky and Pajaarvi because he's to slow. Instead I'd slot Lander inbetween the two.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Pajaarvi-Lander-Hemsky
Smyth-Horcoff-Gagner/Jones
Eager-Belanger-Petrell

Agent Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 03:51 PM
  #47
dustrock
Too Legit To Quit
 
dustrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
nothing is wrong with PRV, he told me yesterday that he isnt getting points right now because he doesnt need to, he said if the team is down a goal or if hall/ebs/rnh start to struggle he will pop a few but he doesnt want to waste his goals on games we are already winning. he also said he is ssaving his goals for the playoffs.
+1

dustrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 04:10 PM
  #48
Koto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,253
vCash: 500
belanger is wrong with prv, thats what

Koto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 04:13 PM
  #49
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,824
vCash: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
belanger is wrong with prv, thats what
In a way. Belanger is what's wrong with PRV's offense. They're fantastic defensively... But that said, PRV needs to be scoring and winding up a shutdown player would be a massive let down

The Nuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2011, 04:21 PM
  #50
Koto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
In a way. Belanger is what's wrong with PRV's offense. They're fantastic defensively... But that said, PRV needs to be scoring and winding up a shutdown player would be a massive let down
its like you opened by disagreeing with me but everything you said underlies my point...

Koto is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.