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Patrick Kaleta's value

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Old
11-04-2011, 08:44 AM
  #1
vcv
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Patrick Kaleta's value

In response to the quote below, I have created this thread to discuss Patrick Kaleta's value to the team, as not to detract from the Tropp discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProngersEyeball View Post
I'd take Tropp over Kaleta anyday.
Care to explain why?

I can't wait to see Tropp, but he hasn't even played a game yet.

To add to this... Patty is more valuable than meets the eye. He's the #2 forward on the penalty kill, only behind Paul Gaustad (his PK partner), in terms of ice time. Result? Buffalo is tied for FIRST in the league in PK%.

Last year, the team was a medicore #13 on the penalty kill. Patty? He was the #8 forward on the penalty kill in terms of ice time.

It's not a coincidence. Patty and Goose have great chemistry and are even better together on the PK.

STOP underselling Kaleta's contributions to the team just because he can cross the line.


Last edited by vcv: 11-04-2011 at 08:58 AM.
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11-04-2011, 09:00 AM
  #2
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Basically, I think Kaleta is more valuable to the team, in other roles, than a LARGE percentage of people (Sabres fans or not) are willing to give him credit for.

It seems to be a common thought that outside of hitting, Kaleta offers little to nothing.

As you can see from my post above, he offers value in at least one other facet of the game.

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11-04-2011, 09:04 AM
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I agree, until he proves otherwise, Kaleta absolutely has more value to this team than Tropp. And I have a hard time believing that Tropp will prove otherwise. That's nothing against Tropp but like you said, Kaleta is a very valuable part of our PK unit and can be very effective at even strength as long as he doesn't cross the line.

The headbutt was stupid (blatantly stupid) but he is a very valuable commodity if he plays on the right side of that line.

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11-04-2011, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volatile View Post
In response to the quote below, I have created this thread to discuss Patrick Kaleta's value to the team, as not to detract from the Tropp discussion


Care to explain why?

I can't wait to see Tropp, but he hasn't even played a game yet.

To add to this... Patty is more valuable than meets the eye. He's the #2 forward on the penalty kill, only behind Paul Gaustad (his PK partner), in terms of ice time. Result? Buffalo is tied for FIRST in the league in PK%.

Last year, the team was a medicore #13 on the penalty kill. Patty? He was the #8 forward on the penalty kill in terms of ice time.


It's not a coincidence. Patty and Goose have great chemistry and are even better together on the PK.

STOP underselling Kaleta's contributions to the team just because he can cross the line.
That's really specious statistical evidence right there. The increased PK% isn't because of improvements on D? The additions of Regehr especially and Ehrhoff? The fact that its a small sample set? That stat means nothing after this few games.

Here's where I'm going with this. I hate a lot of the dirty things that Kaleta pulls BUT I've come to respect him as a player. I want to see the physical presence that he brings in 99% of his game without the stuff that makes it hard for me to root for him. and honestly? Its hard to cheer for the guy who made that headbutt; it's easy to cheer for the guy who's a key part of the PK. But its the same player folks, and that 1% dirty needs to go away.

I'm not calling for the "wimpification" of his game. Just the fact that 99% of the physical players in the NHL don't step over the line with the regularity that Kaleta does.

as for Tropp, I think Tropp has slightly more upside. He could be a better scorer in five years than Kaleta will ever be. But Tropp has a past (that I hope he's grown from, a good example for Kassian IMO) and is completely unproven. I think its foolish to pick Tropp over Kaleta today.

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11-04-2011, 09:21 AM
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As Wysh from Puck Daddy put it the other day, with Matt Cooke finding Hockey Jesus, is Kaleta the most hated player in the league now?

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11-04-2011, 09:22 AM
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With Kaleta it's all about timing. It's hard to turn that intensity on and off like a switch but that's what he needs to master. Bring the hulk anger but try and control it with Bruce Banner smarts.

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11-04-2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronin View Post
That's really specious statistical evidence right there. The increased PK% isn't because of improvements on D? The additions of Regehr especially and Ehrhoff? The fact that its a small sample set? That stat means nothing after this few games.

Here's where I'm going with this. I hate a lot of the dirty things that Kaleta pulls BUT I've come to respect him as a player. I want to see the physical presence that he brings in 99% of his game without the stuff that makes it hard for me to root for him. and honestly? Its hard to cheer for the guy who made that headbutt; it's easy to cheer for the guy who's a key part of the PK. But its the same player folks, and that 1% dirty needs to go away.

I'm not calling for the "wimpification" of his game. Just the fact that 99% of the physical players in the NHL don't step over the line with the regularity that Kaleta does.

as for Tropp, I think Tropp has slightly more upside. He could be a better scorer in five years than Kaleta will ever be. But Tropp has a past (that I hope he's grown from, a good example for Kassian IMO) and is completely unproven. I think its foolish to pick Tropp over Kaleta today.
Sorry, it's not meant as definitive proof. I was trying to say that Kaleta being the #2 forward on the PK will, in time, prove to be effective. I also believe that forwards on the PK have more influence than defensemen.

I'm not saying Kaleta is THE reason for the improvement on the PK (over a small sample size, yes), but he is a key contributor.

And yes, Tropp has better upside. I'm excited about that.

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11-04-2011, 09:37 AM
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I agree with volatile about how valuable he is to the team- it just pisses me off all the more that he took himself out of the lineup for 4 games with a stupid play. Especially when the team is slumping.

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11-04-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
As Wysh from Puck Daddy put it the other day, with Matt Cooke finding Hockey Jesus, is Kaleta the most hated player in the league now?
Maybe I'm looking at things through Blue and Gold colored glasses, but I find the comparisons to Cooke ridiculous. I can't remember an incident where Kaleta ever ended an opponent's season or career with a dirty hit (please correct me if wrong). Cooke was suspended twice last season (the year after the Savard hit); Kaleta was fined once for "attempted headbutting."

I understand Kaleta plays hard and he's probably lucky he hasn't injured more people. But it seems to me that most of the time he goes out of the way to hit hard and clean. You often see him let up on a player in a vulnerable position. He doesn't want to hurt anyone, he just wants to play hockey and hitting is what got him in the NHL.

As for his value, when he came up from the AHL he was purely here to hit people but I think he brings so much more now. He has good puck protection skills, great penalty killing and can add a goal from time to time. I hope he continues to focus more on a complete game. Players like Cooke, Neil, Downie are always hated by opposing fans but they provide some much needed spark for their teams.

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11-04-2011, 09:51 AM
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Kaleta's more valuable this year than he has been at any point in the past, mainly because he's now a primary penalty killer. His agitation game has been largely untouched, and with the PK ability on top of it he's a very good asset right now. Tropp has yet to play a game in the NHL, so his value doesn't even exist.

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11-04-2011, 09:52 AM
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Kaleta's value is Connollyesque. He has periods of great play that he can't build on due to assorted injuries and brain farts. There's a point where it becomes too much of a distraction.

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11-04-2011, 10:09 AM
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Kaleta in an weird way reminds me of Gaustad. ONLY in the fact that if Gaustad wasn't good at face-offs his value IMO would be so much lower, he would have a harder time staying in the NHL long term. NO I'm not saying he wouldn't be on an NHL team.
With Kaleta, if all he stuck with was hitting and popping in 5-8 goals a year, his value would be lower and he would IMO find it harder to stay on an NHL team. But because he has increased his effectiveness in other areas (mainly but not only the PK) he is more of an asset. I'd like to see him practice and get better at faceoffs. Just one more thing to make oneself more valuable.
The Troop vs. Kaleta comment was and is premature at best.

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11-04-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkr0x View Post
Maybe I'm looking at things through Blue and Gold colored glasses, but I find the comparisons to Cooke ridiculous. I can't remember an incident where Kaleta ever ended an opponent's season or career with a dirty hit (please correct me if wrong). Cooke was suspended twice last season (the year after the Savard hit); Kaleta was fined once for "attempted headbutting."

I understand Kaleta plays hard and he's probably lucky he hasn't injured more people. But it seems to me that most of the time he goes out of the way to hit hard and clean. You often see him let up on a player in a vulnerable position. He doesn't want to hurt anyone, he just wants to play hockey and hitting is what got him in the NHL.

As for his value, when he came up from the AHL he was purely here to hit people but I think he brings so much more now. He has good puck protection skills, great penalty killing and can add a goal from time to time. I hope he continues to focus more on a complete game. Players like Cooke, Neil, Downie are always hated by opposing fans but they provide some much needed spark for their teams.
I don't know, Kaleta definitely working his way into that group.

He has certainly worked very hard to develop his game so he's more than just a banger. But he has always walked that very fine line and he certainly does cross that line from time to time and those incidents add up eventually.

Look at a guy like Clutterbuck, he hits everything that moves but at the same time he's had very, very few controversial hits. Same thing with Dustin Brown. You can hit hard, and hit a lot without crossing the line. Patty does a good job of that most of the time but he certainly does cross that line from time to time and people around the league are going to notice when he does.

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11-04-2011, 10:33 AM
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When he plays on the line, he's one of the most important players on our team. He's a great PK-er, provides much needed energy, will drop the gloves occasionally (And usually dust the other guy), and drives the net on the crash line.

When he crosses over the line, he's nothing but a distraction.

I'm growing tired of PattyMouth, to be honest. When he's not getting injured, he's getting suspended. I just want him to mature a little bit and stop doing asshat things like headbutting other players.

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11-04-2011, 11:31 AM
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Regarding thread title, does Kaleta have a sister named "Patricka"?

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11-04-2011, 11:34 AM
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He is a marginal player that can't stay healthy and he has crosshairs on his back because of his dirty style of play. I thought he should have been suspended much longer for that bush league play.


He will be an free agent this summer and I hope the Sabres let him walk.

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11-04-2011, 11:37 AM
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he reminds me of barnaby

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11-04-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpressedDAHagent View Post
he reminds me of barnaby
barnaby would fight ANYONE, kaleta hides behind his shield and turtles for anyone out of his weight class.

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11-04-2011, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
barnaby would fight ANYONE, kaleta hides behind his shield and turtles for anyone out of his weight class.
Goose wears a shield now and isn't about to fight any heavyweights, do you hate him too?

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11-04-2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
barnaby would fight ANYONE, kaleta hides behind his shield and turtles for anyone out of his weight class.
Very few players will fight up a class because that's a really good way to get injured.

And let's not make things up here. Barnaby would sure as heck turtle on people all the time as well.

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11-04-2011, 12:23 PM
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As has been said, I'm getting tired of him being a doucher. Play hockey, not street villain.

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11-04-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
When he plays on the line, he's one of the most important players on our team. He's a great PK-er, provides much needed energy, will drop the gloves occasionally (And usually dust the other guy), and drives the net on the crash line.

When he crosses over the line, he's nothing but a distraction.

I'm growing tired of PattyMouth, to be honest. When he's not getting injured, he's getting suspended. I just want him to mature a little bit and stop doing asshat things like headbutting other players.
I could be wrong, but isn't this his second suspension? Also, for other here, he does fight. We've all seen it. He just picks his fights.

As for the headbutting, that stuff needs to go.

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11-04-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
barnaby would fight ANYONE, kaleta hides behind his shield and turtles for anyone out of his weight class.
There are times to fight and times to turtle and take a punch in the mouth so your team gets that extra two minutes. Kaleta knows that as well as anyone in the league.

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11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
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Kaleta is our only winger with balls. There is value in that.

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11-04-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
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Kaleta is our only winger with balls. There is value in that.

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