I honestly think the team was better the second year, even with Booth hurt. I keep thinking about that Dec 21 game (Mac in the lineup) where we played Philly in a total balls match and won. They went to the finals and Deboer never iced the same line up again, regardless of the fact that it was the best Panthers' showing as a team since the Beezer days. If we played that line up, one that is playoff size is not a problem, we might have been better than the previous 93 point season.
There's a reason why MacIntyre isn't playing in the NHL anymore. Players like him just aren't all that useful anymore.
He played against Philly because Philly is a physical team willing to goon it up, but there are very few teams like Philly.
DeBoer couldn't play Mac every night. For one, no coach really would in this day and age. Two, he had to roll four lines to get the best out of his teams. That team his second year was not all that talented. And after the trade deadline, it wasn't even an NHL team anymore.
For the past two seasons, DeBoer spent the last quarter of each season coaching a team that probably would've had trouble against some AHL teams, talent-wise.
There's a reason why MacIntyre isn't playing in the NHL anymore. Players like him just aren't all that useful anymore.
He played against Philly because Philly is a physical team willing to goon it up, but there are very few teams like Philly.
DeBoer couldn't play Mac every night. For one, no coach really would in this day and age. Two, he had to roll four lines to get the best out of his teams. That team his second year was not all that talented. And after the trade deadline, it wasn't even an NHL team anymore.
For the past two seasons, DeBoer spent the last quarter of each season coaching a team that probably would've had trouble against some AHL teams, talent-wise.
First of all, good sir, MacIntyre becomes useful TODAY! WELCOME BACK SID~! This has nothing to do with enforcers doing the center ice dance, as I'm sure you know. I'm pretty sure he will be dressed in every game in case teams get a little too reckless around Sid. Mac has a sole purpose now, to protect the fragile one...I look forward to seeing the first to test them...look out!
Second, the last para is 1/3 correct, I think his first two years we had evidence of a good team with the wrong lines and pairs. Last year he obviously had no chance.
I mean, the impotent McCabe-Kulikov PP every game???
For the past two seasons, DeBoer spent the last quarter of each season coaching a team that probably would've had trouble against some AHL teams, talent-wise.
Because Eric for the past two seasons Deboer didn't have the team in contention by trade deadline. Some of that is the way they played on their heels with leads afraid to make a mistake and eventually blowing it.
Seems clear why now when you read todays paper about how Pete had everyone frightened to make a mistake. Hopefully Pete's doing a better job with that in NJ and has learned from those mistakes.
More on topic, Dineen does not coach scared and you can see with kulikov Et al their talents flourishing.
Because Eric for the past two seasons Deboer didn't have the team in contention by trade deadline. Some of that is the way they played on their heels with leads afraid to make a mistake and eventually blowing it.
Seems clear why now when you read todays paper about how Pete had everyone frightened to make a mistake. Hopefully Pete's doing a better job with that in NJ and has learned from those mistakes.
More on topic, Dineen does not coach scared and you can see with kulikov Et al their talents flourishing.
The reason why the "talentless" florida marlins won the 2003 world series was because Jack McKeon let the guys go out and play and have some fun winning.
The same holds true for Coach Dineen. Let the guys go out there and have some fun. When i see Versteeg smiling after every shift and guys like Garrison grinning from ear to er after unleashing an radar gun braking one-timer, the team is having some fun out there. That is something Deboer never inspired out of his team.
First of all, good sir, MacIntyre becomes useful TODAY! WELCOME BACK SID~! This has nothing to do with enforcers doing the center ice dance, as I'm sure you know. I'm pretty sure he will be dressed in every game in case teams get a little too reckless around Sid. Mac has a sole purpose now, to protect the fragile one...I look forward to seeing the first to test them...look out!
Second, the last para is 1/3 correct, I think his first two years we had evidence of a good team with the wrong lines and pairs. Last year he obviously had no chance.
I mean, the impotent McCabe-Kulikov PP every game???
I don't think we'll see MacIntyre all that much even with Crosby now in the lineup.
The progressions of Kulikov/Garrison could just have to do with experience. It takes defensemen awhile to develop, and it's not as if those guys didn't play well under DeBoer.
I'd say the progressions of those players has more to do with the guys around them than their actual play.
DeBoer never had a PMD like Brian Campbell on his teams. Campbell is the biggest reason why Garrison's been allowed to unleash his slapshot this year.
Kulikov's always been good at moving the puck. The assists are more noticeable this year because the team finally has some finishers. (not to mention he's actually probably gained more confidence watching Campbell play)
I mean, Kulikov came from the draft straight to the NHL his first year. You can't expect him to become Nicklas Lidstrom under DeBoer overnight.
He was criticized some last year for his play, but he still put up 26 points as a 2nd year defenseman at the age of 20. That's pretty good.
Kulikov's just getting better, as expected.
I'm sure Dineen's system doesn't hurt him, but he's definitely not an overachiever or anything. These guys played well under DeBoer.
You guys are really unfair with DeBoer, the guy had crap to work with, and in top of that he was asked for good results by management, then he goes back to the players an ask for them to do more beyond their limitations.
I am not really a fan of Deboer or the other way around, but the guy took some lemons and make lemonade, if you look at his record right now, he is only 2 points behind us, also look at the roster he has right now, that on itself should give anyone an understanding on why he did not do so well here.
"The two years of experience behind me is probably it,'' Panthers defenseman Dmitry Kulikov said was the main reason for his blossoming two-way game. "You've got more freedom to do what you want on the ice. You feel if you make a mistake you can make up for it on the next shift.
"With Pete, it's one mistake and you're like shaking for the rest of the game.''
Quote:
"Last year I came here from the farm team to make an impression,'' Repik said. "To go out there you are scared to play; that's not the right thing for us.
"Obviously, you'll be tight anyway but you want to be relaxed. I hoped if you made a bad play you don't get yelled at and the coach will help pick you up and give you confidence, too.''
He just wasn't the right guy for this team. I don't necessarily dislike him because of the above, but this team apparently needed a guy like Dineen. I liked DeBoer's first season, we all did, was hoping for more, and he just wasn't given the tools to get the job done. Still, I'm glad Dineen is the one leading this new team.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
You guys are really unfair with DeBoer, the guy had crap to work with, and in top of that he was asked for good results by management, then he goes back to the players an ask for them to do more beyond their limitations.
I am not really a fan of Deboer or the other way around, but the guy took some lemons and make lemonade, if you look at his record right now, he is only 2 points behind us, also look at the roster he has right now, that on itself should give anyone an understanding on why he did not do so well here.
there's really only a couple of posters that are carrying on. and one of them spent all of last year asserting that pete was a "junior coach". i'm really surprised that poster has the chutzpah to continue chiming in here, especially on this topic; if it were possible to have negative credibility, they'd have it.
He just wasn't the right guy for this team. I don't necessarily dislike him because of the above, but this team apparently needed a guy like Dineen. I liked DeBoer's first season, we all did, was hoping for more, and he just wasn't given the tools to get the job done. Still, I'm glad Dineen is the one leading this new team.
certainly those types of statements can reflect poorly on him. and it seems certain that the dynamic between players and pete contributed to him being fired but you have to look at the whole picture. it is certainly a lot easier to tolerate errors from young kids when you've got a room full of talented veterans there to compensate. pete, on the other hand, was a coach who hadn't yet established himself, working for an organization desperately in need of a winning season and the playoffs. of course he's going to push the kids to minimize mistakes. his ass (entire career, really) was on the line. the team had no margin for error. i think pete would have eased up on the kids if he'd had the luxury dineen has now. he's a smart guy. he's worked with very young kids before and had a ton of success. and some of the kids developed well while he was here. some, it would seem, were not well suited to the high-pressure situation that we had here when pete was trying to squeeze every ounce out of those marginal rosters.
again, not to say anything bad here about dineen. i think his personality is a good fit with this group and i'm happy he's here. very good choice at the time and a change, it seems, needed to be made. i would argue that if pete were the one just hired, walking into a brand new room with a reasonable nhl roster, he would be doing similarly (evidence points to that being correct) and we'd be talking about how HE was a good fit. we'll have to look back in 10 years and see how both of their careers develop but as of now, i think you'd have to say they both seem to be pretty solid "young" coaches. dineen seems to be better situated for the long term here with the horses at the nhl level and a top pool of prospects in the waiting. he might just have walked in to a dream situation at the right time.
I'll agree with the above. Still, and I'm sure you won't agree, I didn't like how the Boynton situation was handled, by either party. Seems things went downhill from there.
You guys are really unfair with DeBoer, the guy had crap to work with, and in top of that he was asked for good results by management, then he goes back to the players an ask for them to do more beyond their limitations.
I am not really a fan of Deboer or the other way around, but the guy took some lemons and make lemonade, if you look at his record right now, he is only 2 points behind us, also look at the roster he has right now, that on itself should give anyone an understanding on why he did not do so well here.
T4F, Some posters thought he did well for what he had, others thought he could have done better with better systems and better communication skills. The beauty of sports. All of us think Deboer is a great guy on a personal level and as he gains experience will improve.
Theres only one poster who laughingly holds himself out to be more than the high school coach he is, that rarely watches panther games, thats is intolerant of opposing opinions and has holier than thou comments, but many of us have put him on ignore, so its all good.
Other than that, good fans on both sides of the Deboer debate. Subject of Deboer only resurfaced with the disturbing remarks made by kuli and Dadanov.
Regardless, Dineen is fitting well here to date and thats whats important.
I'll agree with the above. Still, and I'm sure you won't agree, I didn't like how the Boynton situation was handled, by either party. Seems things went downhill from there.
well, yeah but we've been through that before. he was a rookie coach. and everyone (not just rookies) makes mistakes. i'm not going to defend him because i don't know all the details (nor does anyone else) but even if he screwed the pooch on that one, it doesn't mean he's a bad coach or incapable of adjusting his approach, does it? i think most of us can put ourselves in his shoes and understand what it's like trying to push veterans and rookies alike to perform virtually mistake-free and the pressure and blowback that could create. we saw it in several cases throughout his tenure but it's not a unique situation; many great coaches have run aground trying to navigate those waters. i'd say perhaps that was the first manifestation of the dynamic but the situation was not helped at all by the fact that the screws were tightened the following two years in terms of talent he was given.
anyhow, i think we can agree on this much: it wasn't a good dynamic.
pdb was a good coach, i dont think a few rookies whining about how stern he was with them changes that. no one is perfect at their job in their first couple of years. the bottom line is pdb never had any talent to work with, he wouldve definitely made the playoffs his first and probably subsequent years if he had the first line we have now.
well, yeah but we've been through that before. he was a rookie coach. and everyone (not just rookies) makes mistakes. i'm not going to defend him because i don't know all the details (nor does anyone else) but even if he screwed the pooch on that one, it doesn't mean he's a bad coach or incapable of adjusting his approach, does it? i think most of us can put ourselves in his shoes and understand what it's like trying to push veterans and rookies alike to perform virtually mistake-free and the pressure and blowback that could create. we saw it in several cases throughout his tenure but it's not a unique situation; many great coaches have run aground trying to navigate those waters. i'd say perhaps that was the first manifestation of the dynamic but the situation was not helped at all by the fact that the screws were tightened the following two years in terms of talent he was given.
anyhow, i think we can agree on this much: it wasn't a good dynamic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick
I also don't know if there's any relevant correlation between benching Nick Boynton/team choking.
This is the same Nick Boynton who basically had a tough time playing in the NHL after that year.
It might've had an impact, but I don't think the impact is as big as some make it out to be.
Maybe if guys like Bouwmeester wouldn't have started playing like absolute **** down the stretch, we would've gotten another point.
Not saying it was the end all, just seemed things changed when it happened. In several ways. None of us were there, and I blame Nick just the same, just a crappy situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Panther
pdb was a good coach, i dont think a few rookies whining about how stern he was with them changes that. no one is perfect at their job in their first couple of years. the bottom line is pdb never had any talent to work with, he wouldve definitely made the playoffs his first and probably subsequent years if he had the first line we have now.
i wish pdb the best, just not against us
Didn't say that. I don't like him, but it's not about who I like if we're winning. Just don't think he was the coach for this team is all.
Didn't say that. I don't like him, but it's not about who I like if we're winning. Just don't think he was the coach for this team is all.
turns out you are right because dineen definitely is the coach for us. but we couldnt know that really when it happened. i for one was critical of dt for that move. but like most of his moves it turns out he was right. like i said, best of luck to pdb against everyone but the panthers (and the kings)
Here's a compliment on dineen' s between period adjustments I posted on the gdt from one of the greatest goalies of all time:
Devils goaltender Martin Brodeur credited the Panthers with making a strategic change after the first period by altering their breakout to include more stretch passes.
“They changed the way they played a little bit,” Brodeur said. “They had a big storm early in the game and after that we took it to them, but they stretched us out and that kind of backed our forecheck up a little bit because of that, so they slowed down the game because of that and I think Versteeg took over the game. Even though he got two goals on rebounds, I think puck possession, I don’t know how much he had the puck in our zone, but it was pretty impressive the way he played. And they just kind of poured it on."
My whole section got a kick out of the time out where you could see Dineen actively coaching with the board and encouriging the comeback .. Haven't seen good stuff like that in a long time.
Last edited by adam graves: 11-22-2011 at 08:41 AM.
my favorite parts of the game were when dineen flew the zone on that PK, and then dineen saucered him a beautiful pass and then dineen went top shelf on brodeur to tie the game. oh, and when dineen broke green's stick, and dineen found dineen in the slot with a perfect pass and dineen froze brodeur, then went around him and scored the winner. oh, and man did dineen make some solid saves to keep us in the game!
as far as deboer is concerned... ugh. he made so many mistakes out there i don't know where to begin.
my favorite parts of the game were when dineen flew the zone on that PK, and then dineen saucered him a beautiful pass and then dineen went top shelf on brodeur to tie the game. oh, and when dineen broke green's stick, and dineen found dineen in the slot with a perfect pass and dineen froze brodeur, then went around him and scored the winner. oh, and man did dineen make some solid saves to keep us in the game!
as far as deboer is concerned... ugh. he made so many mistakes out there i don't know where to begin.
How about when Brodeur was standing behind the bench chewing his gum?
I'm confused..you were saying something about negative credibility, but you criticize the Deboer critics and mock those who praise Dineen? What I'm confused about is why you see this as acceptable.
...and while Brodeur was doing nothing but chewing his gum, Weiss, Garrison, Flash, Versteeg, and Theodore were telling their Dineen how to beat the Deboers.
Last edited by CHGoalie72: 11-22-2011 at 12:13 PM.
The reason why the "talentless" florida marlins won the 2003 world series was because Jack McKeon let the guys go out and play and have some fun winning. 
