my favorite parts of the game were when dineen flew the zone on that PK, and then dineen saucered him a beautiful pass and then dineen went top shelf on brodeur to tie the game. oh, and when dineen broke green's stick, and dineen found dineen in the slot with a perfect pass and dineen froze brodeur, then went around him and scored the winner. oh, and man did dineen make some solid saves to keep us in the game!
as far as deboer is concerned... ugh. he made so many mistakes out there i don't know where to begin.
I love how guys with losing records here were defended by you incessantly, but a coach with an actual winning record you offer little credit. Makes no sense.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
Because Eric for the past two seasons Deboer didn't have the team in contention by trade deadline. Some of that is the way they played on their heels with leads afraid to make a mistake and eventually blowing it.
Seems clear why now when you read todays paper about how Pete had everyone frightened to make a mistake. Hopefully Pete's doing a better job with that in NJ and has learned from those mistakes.
More on topic, Dineen does not coach scared and you can see with kulikov Et al their talents flourishing.
NOT true AT ALL. Before least season started at all. Every single poster here had us pinned as a lottery team. Go find a post where someone said otherwise. I'll be waiting..
Comparing this team and coach to last years team and coach is like comparing a soda can to a laser printer.
How about when Brodeur was standing behind the bench chewing his gum?
I'm confused..you were saying something about negative credibility, but you criticize the Deboer critics and mock those who praise Dineen? What I'm confused about is why you see this as acceptable.
...and while Brodeur was doing nothing but chewing his gum, Weiss, Garrison, Flash, Versteeg, and Theodore were telling their Dineen how to beat the Deboers.
i'll remind you (and others) that i was one of the first to criticize deboer in year 1. before the "boynton incident". it was based on a clearly articulated analysis of the team's play vis a vis deboer's stated (in many interviews) strategy. i think the team threw away points with inconsistent play and that i put on deboer. yes, ironically, in his best statistical season with the club. and he has agreed with that analysis in the years since. his last 2 seasons, the team competed night in and night out and was generally regarded as a *very* well coached team.
my comments are not based on which way the wind is blowing or on facile analysis (i.e., the way he chews his gum on the bench) like some other posters here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723
I love how guys with losing records here were defended by you incessantly, but a coach with an actual winning record you offer little credit. Makes no sense.
because it's primarily (not ONLY) about the players on the ice. and that's the case now. if you don't believe me, listen to dineen's post game interview. the words that came from his mouth were something like (if not exactly) "it was not about coaching, it was about the group of guys in that room...". he wasn't generalizing but i am.
in general, dineen deserves some credit for the team's consistency, both in terms system play (MUCH better over the past 10 games) and overall effort. i think where dineen deserves credit last night was in his handling of the moments after the 3rd goal. no timeout (which some people here would be screaming about if we lost.... and deboer were coaching ). there were a couple of mistakes in back checking coverage, a few bad bounces, a few good plays by the devils but we weren't playing poorly. versteeg (who seems to offer the most honest and useful interviews after the game) agreed with me here. the chances were even at that point and theodore had stopped the shots he should've. dineen said that he felt the team was OK, despite the score and he decided to let things play out. that was a great move. a vote of confidence for the boys, despite the score. and then the players on the ice went out and made plays, got back in the game and won it. our "system" didn't win the game. nor did pete's system lose the game for the devils. dineen didn't out-match pete with his lines. nor did he draw up any plays off face-offs that made the difference. they stuck with systems (the 2 forechecking systems we've seen to this point), got some bounces and turned it around. on the ice.
Last edited by Panthers Rock: 11-22-2011 at 03:34 PM.
Reason: qdp
Good rundown, but you've also greatly defended the players that were here over the years. The team failed consistently, and we found you defending them, and criticizing us. You have to agree that it's pretty funny that we're winning and you're not giving him much credit, deserved or not.
NOT true AT ALL. Before least season started at all. Every single poster here had us pinned as a lottery team. Go find a post where someone said otherwise. I'll be waiting..
Comparing this team and coach to last years team and coach is like comparing a soda can to a laser printer.
You can capitalize, put all the mood things you want in your post.
Doesnt make it true.
These two teams came in similar in points. Call one a soda can and the other a laser printer if u wish, but pretty much a pickem.
Anyone attending last nights game saw the glaring difference between styles of the two coaches, the adjustments on our side and going into the shell of the other. The devils had 3 shots on goal in the 3rd period. THREE. Sound at all familiar? Lost a lead in the 3rd...familiar again? Devil analysts complaining of the team playing on their heels. Dejavu?
If You enjoy those memories, following the devils you'll get plenty of it. They are already starting the mutiny of PD's style on their thread.
I'll simply attend my 40 games here and enjoy and appreciate Kevin Dineen, coach.
Last edited by adam graves: 11-22-2011 at 05:23 PM.
i'll remind you (and others) that i was one of the first to criticize deboer in year 1. before the "boynton incident". it was based on a clearly articulated analysis of the team's play vis a vis deboer's stated (in many interviews) strategy. i think the team threw away points with inconsistent play and that i put on deboer. yes, ironically, in his best statistical season with the club. and he has agreed with that analysis in the years since. his last 2 seasons, the team competed night in and night out and was generally regarded as a *very* well coached team.
What was regarded as a *very* well coached team? The Panthers with Deboer? Who said that? The Hockey News? LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
my comments are not based on which way the wind is blowing or on facile analysis (i.e., the way he chews his gum on the bench) like some other posters here.
I don't think anyone based their comments on the way he chews his gum, but the (ignoredbyyou)fact that it is all he looks to do when his teams get crushed in the third. What's wrong with picking up on that? Nothing. The crime lies in the non action, not those who criticize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
because it's primarily (not ONLY) about the players on the ice. and that's the case now. if you don't believe me, listen to dineen's post game interview. the words that came from his mouth were something like (if not exactly) "it was not about coaching, it was about the group of guys in that room...". he wasn't generalizing but i am.
in general, dineen deserves some credit for the team's consistency, both in terms system play (MUCH better over the past 10 games) and overall effort. i think where dineen deserves credit last night was in his handling of the moments after the 3rd goal. no timeout (which some people here would be screaming about if we lost.... and deboer were coaching ). there were a couple of mistakes in back checking coverage, a few bad bounces, a few good plays by the devils but we weren't playing poorly. versteeg (who seems to offer the most honest and useful interviews after the game) agreed with me here. the chances were even at that point and theodore had stopped the shots he should've. dineen said that he felt the team was OK, despite the score and he decided to let things play out. that was a great move. a vote of confidence for the boys, despite the score. and then the players on the ice went out and made plays, got back in the game and won it. our "system" didn't win the game. nor did pete's system lose the game for the devils. dineen didn't out-match pete with his lines. nor did he draw up any plays off face-offs that made the difference. they stuck with systems (the 2 forechecking systems we've seen to this point), got some bounces and turned it around. on the ice.
JACK ADAMS AWARD Winner: Kevin Dineen, Florida
Runners-up: Peter Laviolette, Philadelphia; Dave Tippett, Phoenix
Comment: New coaches frequently get early results, but the Panthers have done so with a roster that underwent serious overhaul in the offseason. In a similar vein, Peter Laviolette has the Flyers playing at a high level after significant summer trades that saw the Flyers ship out Jeff Carter and Mike Richards and bring in half a dozen forwards, most of whom are playing significant roles. Dave Tippett and Barry Trotz could be included virtually every year, but Tippett gets the edge right now, while Tom Renney (Edmonton), Glen Gulutzan (Dallas) and Mike Yeo (Minnesota) are among others that might be faring better than expected.
JACK ADAMS AWARD Winner: Kevin Dineen, Florida
Runners-up: Peter Laviolette, Philadelphia; Dave Tippett, Phoenix
Comment: New coaches frequently get early results, but the Panthers have done so with a roster that underwent serious overhaul in the offseason. In a similar vein, Peter Laviolette has the Flyers playing at a high level after significant summer trades that saw the Flyers ship out Jeff Carter and Mike Richards and bring in half a dozen forwards, most of whom are playing significant roles. Dave Tippett and Barry Trotz could be included virtually every year, but Tippett gets the edge right now, while Tom Renney (Edmonton), Glen Gulutzan (Dallas) and Mike Yeo (Minnesota) are among others that might be faring better than expected.
You can capitalize, put all the mood things you want in your post.
Doesnt make it true.
These two teams came in similar in points. Call one a soda can and the other a laser printer if u wish, but pretty much a pickem.
I wish I could respond to this, but not a word of it makes any damn sense. I don't even know what the hell you're talking about "these two teams came in similar in points".
You never have debunked the fact that every single poster here expected a lottery pick before the season. Put your hate aside and admit that much.
I wish I could respond to this, but not a word of it makes any damn sense. I don't even know what the hell you're talking about "these two teams came in similar in points".
You never have debunked the fact that every single poster here expected a lottery pick before the season. Put your hate aside and admit that much.
Ill be the first to admit that last season the panthers were going to be and were a lottery team. But comparing Deboer's panthers of 2010-2011 to Dineen's 2011-2012 panthers makes little sense.
I think its very possible to compare 08-09 Deboer's panthers who missed the playoffs due to a tiebreak and to Dineen's panthers of 2011-2012.
I further believe that the panthers of 08-09 had relatively the same amount of talent at this years panthers. A first line who was able to put up points, an capable defensemen in Jaybo, and an all star goalie in Vokoun.
Now see where the chips landed, I am under the impression that had coach Dineen been behind the helm in 08-09 the panthers would have made the playoffs. There were several games i remember that season where deboer could have made a difference. The first was an early season loss to nashville with three seconds left in regulation that the panthers should have won. And even worse and more memberable was one of the last games of that season where the post season on the line and the team could not find a way to beat atlanta.
Now I dont know too much about coaching strategy so i wont try to compare Dineen and Deboer on that basis but what i can judge is emotion and heart. Im under the impression that dineen has found a way to inspire his guys in the dressing room every night. When the team was down 3-0 the other night new jersey i fully believe that dineen said something in the locker room that inspired these rag tag castaways who no one in the nhl takes seriously to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and find a way to win. Never in Deboer's three year tenure have i seen the emotion, the heart, and the intensity that Coach Dineen has displayed in his 12 week tenure so far.
When i get dismayed from reading ignorant and arrogant posters on the main boards saying that the panthers early season success is merely an illusion and the team will come crashing back down to earth in my heart i have to believe that the panthers wont let that happen. Not because of versteeg's good positioning, or weiss's leadership, or fleischmann's ability to see the ice, or Campbell's puck moving, or Garrison's bomb. Its because i believe Coach Dineen will not let this team be content with mediocrity and he will not let this team lose due to a lack of worth ethic and a lack of heart.
The National Hockey League reached the first-quarter mark this week of what has already been a memorable 2011-12 season. To celebrate, the NHL.com staff is taking a look at the early favorites for each of the major NHL end-of-season trophies with the first installment of our Trophy Tracker feature. Stay tuned for updates as the season progresses. All statistics for this edition of the Trophy Trackers are as of games completed by Nov. 22.
Winner: Kevin Dineen, Florida Panthers -- From the moment Dineen was hired as Panthers coach, he was determined to have his team get off to a positive start. He's certainly made good on that promise. In fact, Florida's 6-4-1 finish in October marked the first time since 2005-06 (6-5-1) that the organization sported a winning record in the opening month of the season. On top of that, Dineen has had to do it with as many as 11 new players in the lineup at any given point throughout the season. The Panthers have not qualified for the Stanley Cup Playoffs 10 straight seasons, so Dineen still knows there's plenty of work ahead.
Last edited by adam graves: 11-25-2011 at 01:04 PM.
I wish I could respond to this, but not a word of it makes any damn sense. I don't even know what the hell you're talking about "these two teams came in similar in points".
You never have debunked the fact that every single poster here expected a lottery pick before the season. Put your hate aside and admit that much.
Dude I have no idea what your saying, but ding dong the witch is dead and this is a Dineen appreciation thread. So glad the fans and the experts are appreciating him as much as I do.
Good idea, like i said in gdt as did you the 4th looks awesome.
I've been watching the NHL network all day, with all their BS "Top 10s" where Panthers are only shown on the crappy end, I think they're avoiding the "Top Coach" list so they don't have to bring us up.
What was regarded as a *very* well coached team? The Panthers with Deboer? Who said that? The Hockey News? LOL
yes, deboer's teams. and if you watched the games (or even looked at the box scores) you would know that's true. when a team is overmatched every night and still comes to play (and they most certainly did) and plays tight, 1 goal games, what else can you say? i don't remember the specific instances in which i heard it mentioned but it was out there. you'd hear it from opponents (players, coaches, commentators) and general commentary from reputable sources (HNIC, et al). i'm sure some googling would turn up evidence supporting my claim.
Quote:
I don't think anyone based their comments on the way he chews his gum, but the (ignoredbyyou)fact that it is all he looks to do when his teams get crushed in the third. What's wrong with picking up on that? Nothing. The crime lies in the non action, not those who criticize it.
crime lies in non-action? exactly what would have him do? and more importantly, how does his behavior differ from some of the best coaches in the game? i assert that it doesn't (i know one person is going to mention torts and my response is ). every coach is going to react differently but if you look at the results on the ice, the bottom line is that the players win and lose games. the expression on a coach's face doesn't.
and by the way, dineen has looked much more pained and helpless in some of those white knuckle moments than the more stoic deboer ever did (imo).
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersflames1
Ill be the first to admit that last season the panthers were going to be and were a lottery team. But comparing Deboer's panthers of 2010-2011 to Dineen's 2011-2012 panthers makes little sense.
I think its very possible to compare 08-09 Deboer's panthers who missed the playoffs due to a tiebreak and to Dineen's panthers of 2011-2012.
I further believe that the panthers of 08-09 had relatively the same amount of talent at this years panthers. A first line who was able to put up points, an capable defensemen in Jaybo, and an all star goalie in Vokoun.
Now see where the chips landed, I am under the impression that had coach Dineen been behind the helm in 08-09 the panthers would have made the playoffs. There were several games i remember that season where deboer could have made a difference. The first was an early season loss to nashville with three seconds left in regulation that the panthers should have won. And even worse and more memberable was one of the last games of that season where the post season on the line and the team could not find a way to beat atlanta.
how have the chips landed? we're 1/4 through the season and we're watching a completely different, more veteran and arguably more talented team do things on the ice those teams 2-3 years ago never did. and it has nothing to do with coaching. i already touched on the fact that all evidence indicates that pete did a *very* good job preparing his team night in and night out. they competed hard. while i was critical of pete that first year regarding the team's consistency, we don't have enough evidence to support your claim, even if we were to assume the respective teams were equal (and that's a large stretch, especially in terms of leadership).
Quote:
Now I dont know too much about coaching strategy so i wont try to compare Dineen and Deboer on that basis but what i can judge is emotion and heart. Im under the impression that dineen has found a way to inspire his guys in the dressing room every night. When the team was down 3-0 the other night new jersey i fully believe that dineen said something in the locker room that inspired these rag tag castaways who no one in the nhl takes seriously to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and find a way to win. Never in Deboer's three year tenure have i seen the emotion, the heart, and the intensity that Coach Dineen has displayed in his 12 week tenure so far.
the example of the 3-0 deficit against new jersey is really a poor one as the team was playing fairly well, despite the score. chances were equal, shots, hits and face-offs were either equal or in our favor.
i don't know what that last sentence is referring to but i'll take two stabs: one, the coaches themselves. in this case, i would disagree. i don't think dineen has been any more intense or emotional than pete from what i've seen. if you're talking about the "team", i'd agree but i don't think you'd have much backing (certainly none from me) if you're suggesting that's all coming from dineen. tallon put together a completely different roster, basically transplanting a new heart into that room. and he brought in guys with those character traits (enthusiastic, chatty), for a reason and you're seeing it.
yes, deboer's teams. and if you watched the games (or even looked at the box scores) you would know that's true.
I don't think so. I watched the games, sorry you missed them. No, the boxscore isn't something to base an opinion on, other than acknowledging a win or loss and that's not an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
when a team is overmatched every night and still comes to play (and they most certainly did) and plays tight, 1 goal games, what else can you say? i don't remember the specific instances in which i heard it mentioned but it was out there. you'd hear it from opponents (players, coaches, commentators) and general commentary from reputable sources (HNIC, et al). i'm sure some googling would turn up evidence supporting my claim.
We weren't overmatched every night, most NHL teams usually come to play. Whether or not they are given roles, assignments, and overall direction usually determines a W/L(either way) pattern. If we were outmatched they wouldn't possibly have been involved in so many close games.
As for the bold, I doubt those that know him personally will slander him. Those that don't know him couldn't slander him. You're expecting truth in media? If you're still in Texas, go to Dealey Plaza.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
crime lies in non-action? exactly what would have him do? and more importantly, how does his behavior differ from some of the best coaches in the game? i assert that it doesn't (i know one person is going to mention torts and my response is ). every coach is going to react differently but if you look at the results on the ice, the bottom line is that the players win and lose games. the expression on a coach's face doesn't.
I would have him go against all the points of complaint in the Deboer thread. All reasonable to the point of suggestion. All the line combos he overlooked, and worse those he kept for way too long. TORTARELLA!sucks
Again, it wasn't the gum chewing OR the expressions that were ever blamed. Though, if he was giving directions I guess his facial expressions would've been different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
and by the way, Dineen has looked much more pained and helpless in some of those white knuckle moments than the more stoic deboer ever did (imo).
I don't think so. I watched the games, sorry you missed them. No, the boxscore isn't something to base an opinion on, other than acknowledging a win or loss and that's not an opinion.
We weren't overmatched every night, most NHL teams usually come to play. Whether or not they are given roles, assignments, and overall direction usually determines a W/L(either way) pattern. If we were outmatched they wouldn't possibly have been involved in so many close games.
As for the bold, I doubt those that know him personally will slander him. Those that don't know him couldn't slander him. You're expecting truth in media? If you're still in Texas, go to Dealey Plaza.
I would have him go against all the points of complaint in the Deboer thread. All reasonable to the point of suggestion. All the line combos he overlooked, and worse those he kept for way too long. TORTARELLA!sucks
Again, it wasn't the gum chewing OR the expressions that were ever blamed. Though, if he was giving directions I guess his facial expressions would've been different.
When have you seen...a game?
Lol CH, The poster doesn't attend or watch. I'm shocked he still posts.
Back on topic, with all of Kevins NHL experience and leadership, I'd be interested how Coach is handling this difficult traveling stretch. Players like versteeg an Weiss are discussed by it. I'm comfortable the former 2x Captain has a great skille set for these issues.
). there were a couple of mistakes in back checking coverage, a few bad bounces, a few good plays by the devils but we weren't playing poorly. versteeg (who seems to offer the most honest and useful interviews after the game) agreed with me here. the chances were even at that point and theodore had stopped the shots he should've. dineen said that he felt the team was OK, despite the score and he decided to let things play out. that was a great move. a vote of confidence for the boys, despite the score. and then the players on the ice went out and made plays, got back in the game and won it. our "system" didn't win the game. nor did pete's system lose the game for the devils. dineen didn't out-match pete with his lines. nor did he draw up any plays off face-offs that made the difference. they stuck with systems (the 2 forechecking systems we've seen to this point), got some bounces and turned it around. on the ice.
). every coach is going to react differently but if you look at the results on the ice, the bottom line is that the players win and lose games. the expression on a coach's face doesn't.
