I find it kind of hilarious that with all the firings in the SE, Kevin is now one of the more NHL experienced coaches...
Tonight will be a great challenge for him - coming off a brutal loss and facing a presumably energized team in the Hurricanes.
Just don't let Staal break out tonight...
Excellent point. As i said above, Im confident he can pull from the years of leadership hes had in the NHL to at least have them as prepared as possible; then its up to the boys.
I don't think so. I watched the games, sorry you missed them. No, the boxscore isn't something to base an opinion on, other than acknowledging a win or loss and that's not an opinion.
for some people it most certainly is. there's a whole story hidden there. but that's not what my opinions are based on.
Quote:
We weren't overmatched every night, most NHL teams usually come to play. Whether or not they are given roles, assignments, and overall direction usually determines a W/L(either way) pattern. If we were outmatched they wouldn't possibly have been involved in so many close games.
As for the bold, I doubt those that know him personally will slander him. Those that don't know him couldn't slander him. You're expecting truth in media? If you're still in Texas, go to Dealey Plaza.
well, this is a matter of opinion i guess. when you don't have a first line and your "top scorer" is a 2nd line winger coming off a year lost to multiple concussions, i think you are going to find it tough to find an opponent you match up favorably against. i thought most here were on the same page in this regard. guess not.
Quote:
I would have him go against all the points of complaint in the Deboer thread. All reasonable to the point of suggestion. All the line combos he overlooked, and worse those he kept for way too long. TORTARELLA!sucks
Again, it wasn't the gum chewing OR the expressions that were ever blamed. Though, if he was giving directions I guess his facial expressions would've been different.
have you watched many other coaches with the same critical eye? do you understand how different coaches like to work in terms of utilizing assistants, etc.? if you are suggesting that he went mute and left the team rudderless, i can't really begin to respond. that, imo, is way off in the weeds.
i'll just leave off by pointing out that at higher levels in hockey, there is delegation behind the bench. the head coach is not dictating every single moment behind the bench. you have assistants with whom you meet every day and who understand the personnel and strategy they are responsible for as well as what the entire team needs to do. how that plays out on a nightly basis can look different on each bench at different times. some very successful coaches say little during games. see above regarding a critical eye.
Quote:
When have you seen...a game?
i watch just about every game and attend 2-3 games a year in person, either in FL, boston or new york.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72
At least acknowledge the important crap in my post!
for some people it most certainly is. there's a whole story hidden there. but that's not what my opinions are based on.
Stats tell what happened, not why & how they happened.
Quite a few people thought Rozsival was good on the Rangers too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
well, this is a matter of opinion i guess. when you don't have a first line and your "top scorer" is a 2nd line winger coming off a year lost to multiple concussions, i think you are going to find it tough to find an opponent you match up favorably against. i thought most here were on the same page in this regard. guess not.
Regarding last year's tankmode line-up, everyone is on the same page. He was here for 2 previous years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
have you watched many other coaches with the same critical eye? do you understand how different coaches like to work in terms of utilizing assistants, etc.? if you are suggesting that he went mute and left the team rudderless, i can't really begin to respond. that, imo, is way off in the weeds.
I have, I do, and they have nothing to do with what Deboer did here. Every coaching circumstance is unique.
I am suggesting he went mute and rudderless because it was always the same failing plan that he didn't change. Perhaps the truth lies in the weeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
i'll just leave off by pointing out that at higher levels in hockey, there is delegation behind the bench. the head coach is not dictating every single moment behind the bench. you have assistants with whom you meet every day and who understand the personnel and strategy they are responsible for as well as what the entire team needs to do. how that plays out on a nightly basis can look different on each bench at different times. some very successful coaches say little during games. see above regarding a critical eye.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say there was no way in hell the coaching staff ever watched a game video with intentions to pick and fix the weak points, and they were always the same weak points left uncovered!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
i watch just about every game and attend 2-3 games a year in person, either in FL, boston or new york.
Stats tell what happened, not why & how they happened.
Quite a few people thought Rozsival was good on the Rangers too.
this discussion is orthogonal to main point so i'm leaving it alone.
Quote:
Regarding last year's tankmode line-up, everyone is on the same page. He was here for 2 previous years.
the middle year, the team was torn apart at the deadline as well. and the first year (where i was criticizing him), he actually coached the team to 93 points. so... not sure what you're standing on.
Quote:
I have, I do, and they have nothing to do with what Deboer did here. Every coaching circumstance is unique.
I am suggesting he went mute and rudderless because it was always the same failing plan that he didn't change. Perhaps the truth lies in the weeds.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say there was no way in hell the coaching staff ever watched a game video with intentions to pick and fix the weak points, and they were always the same weak points left uncovered!!!
see, here's a fundamental difference in our perspectives. plan versus execution.
there is nothing about the "plan", any plan (basically, a forecheck) that would cause a team to lose late in games. whatever you're playing, if you're playing it well, can work. any coach will tell you that. some minimize risk, some don't. they all can work at any time in a game. it was not the plan, just like it was not the plan when we gave up 3 goals and lost to TB a couple of weeks ago. no, it's the players on the ice failing to execute. with our team the past 2 years, we just had no poise, no confidence late in games. and pete took responsibility at one point, saying something like "we're just not playing with any confidence in crunch time and ultimately, that's on me - i have to find a way to instill some confidence in our guys...". now if you want to criticize pete on that, go ahead. he's vulnerable. however, i would argue that this kind of stuff happens in the nhl all the time and really, the reason it was pathological here had everything to do with the roster - the character and more importantly, the experience of the players. that's something the coach cannot control. he can try to exude calm and confidence but ultimately, the guys on the ice under siege have to have it. they didn't most nights.
PS - i believe it was pete's first year here that the team was actually very good with leads late in games.
this discussion is orthogonal to main point so i'm leaving it alone.
lol fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
the middle year, the team was torn apart at the deadline as well. and the first year (where i was criticizing him), he actually coached the team to 93 points. so... not sure what you're standing on.
I'm standing on the other side of the room on this one! The middle season I thought we were actually a hell of a lot better than we looked. His crappy line combos kept us down that year. IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG
see, here's a fundamental difference in our perspectives. plan versus execution.
there is nothing about the "plan", any plan (basically, a forecheck) that would cause a team to lose late in games. whatever you're playing, if you're playing it well, can work. any coach will tell you that. some minimize risk, some don't. they all can work at any time in a game. it was not the plan, just like it was not the plan when we gave up 3 goals and lost to TB a couple of weeks ago. no, it's the players on the ice failing to execute. with our team the past 2 years, we just had no poise, no confidence late in games. and pete took responsibility at one point, saying something like "we're just not playing with any confidence in crunch time and ultimately, that's on me - i have to find a way to instill some confidence in our guys...". now if you want to criticize pete on that, go ahead. he's vulnerable. however, i would argue that this kind of stuff happens in the nhl all the time and really, the reason it was pathological here had everything to do with the roster - the character and more importantly, the experience of the players. that's something the coach cannot control. he can try to exude calm and confidence but ultimately, the guys on the ice under siege have to have it. they didn't most nights.
PS - i believe it was pete's first year here that the team was actually very good with leads late in games.
With exception to the plan not being the problem, I agree with everything.
I apologize, I was wrong in my use of the word "plan". Actually, it's the ability to change the plan that I'm talking about. Such as recognizing the night's hot hands and best working set of legs...or recognizing what isn't working and having them do something different. Not necessarily having anything to do with any plan as you said.
I get that he's a good enough coach that he made it to the NHL level, even those who ignore you gave PDB that much...but doesn't mean he was good for what we had.
I think he did better with what he had than reputable Jacques Martin.
Pdb has skills I just wish he took an asst coach job to learn from a veterAn coach. Almost impossible to jump from juniors to pros, having no NHL playing experience (yes there are exceptions) I get no thrill watching him struggle in NJ, a franchise I have the utmost respect for.
Regardless this is a Dineen thread and so happy the team is enjoying him.
Last edited by adam graves: 12-04-2011 at 01:02 PM.
Pdb has skills I just wish he took an asst coach job to learn from a veterAn coach. Almost impossible to jump from juniors to pros, having no NHL playing experience (yes there are exceptions) I get no thrill watching him struggle in NJ, a franchise I have the utmost respect for.
Regardless this is a Dineen thread and so happy the team is enjoying him.
This poster couldn't just couldn't stand to leave the first sentence as his entire post!
What was Dineen's coaching resume? Does it matter? Does being a captain automatically make a good coach? That would hurt those who argue against the possibility of Messier being a coach.
This poster couldn't just couldn't stand to leave the first sentence as his entire post!
What was Dineen's coaching resume? Does it matter? Does being a captain automatically make a good coach? That would hurt those who argue against the possibility of Messier being a coach.
Would Mess make a good NHL coach? Well if you read the GR article, it stresses the knowledge and experience Dineen gained successfully coaching in the professional AHL. The skillset he learned there combined with his leadership abilities and NHL experience, is what is the etiology of these rave reviews. Its no coincidence we got so many posts from AHL fans of his coaching.
So, although Mess's and Dineen's NHL's resume have similar leadership, one would have to see Mess's growth in coaching first, either in the AHL, or assisting in the pros, (or both), prior to judging his potential.
Would Mess make a good NHL coach? Well if you read the GR article, it stresses the knowledge and experience Dineen gained successfully coaching in the professional AHL. The skillset he learned there combined with his leadership abilities and NHL experience, is what is the etiology of these rave reviews. Its no coincidence we got so many posts from AHL fans of his coaching.
So, although Mess's and Dineen's NHL's resume have similar leadership, one would have to see Mess's growth in coaching first, either in the AHL, or assisting in the pros, (or both), prior to judging his potential.
My guess, by what I'd expect, The Captain would do what it takes to win and never stop until he's at point.
For his known character, he's one of the only guys that I wouldn't be surprised to see succeed immediately as a coach. At whatever level.
He's spent plenty of time around coaches. He's spent plenty of time player-coaching his teammates.
Anyone else concerned or confused by Dineen's comments after today's morning skate regarding Barch and our lack of physical play?
The question comes from Fialkov at about 19 seconds:
I actually thought Dineen might've been joking at first, considering his own playing career. But once i realized he was serious, i have to wonder how this team is really going to fare over the rest of the season. Every game that our top line dominates, they become even bigger targets. I simply can't see anything good that will come out of us continuing to get pushed around by other teams.
On the flip side, we've arrived here today at the top of the conference playing the style we've been playing, so i trust Dineen in that sense. Also, we've been rolling 4 lines, so Barch is going to have to prove that he can play hockey and not just be a meat head on skates. Those are positive things. But in terms of the lack of physicality, i was simply surprised that Dineen played down the importance of that facet of winning hockey so much.
Anyone else concerned or confused by Dineen's comments after today's morning skate regarding Barch and our lack of physical play?
The question comes from Fialkov at about 19 seconds:
I actually thought Dineen might've been joking at first, considering his own playing career. But once i realized he was serious, i have to wonder how this team is really going to fare over the rest of the season. Every game that our top line dominates, they become even bigger targets. I simply can't see anything good that will come out of us continuing to get pushed around by other teams.
On the flip side, we've arrived here today at the top of the conference playing the style we've been playing, so i trust Dineen in that sense. Also, we've been rolling 4 lines, so Barch is going to have to prove that he can play hockey and not just be a meat head on skates. Those are positive things. But in terms of the lack of physicality, i was simply surprised that Dineen played down the importance of that facet of winning hockey so much.
I interpreted what he said as the panthers have statistics that are way more important to them than hits. That being shots on goal, PP %, GAA, Save percentage, and most importantly GOALS.
We win games because of our skill and talent not throwing the body around. By getting barch we have a guy that can stand up for his teammate whos apply their speed and skill to score goals.
I interpreted what he said as the panthers have statistics that are way more important to them than hits. That being shots on goal, PP %, GAA, Save percentage, and most importantly GOALS.
We win games because of our skill and talent not throwing the body around. By getting barch we have a guy that can stand up for his teammate whos apply their speed and skill to score goals.
This. The evidence of acquiring Barch, and Barch playing and dadanov sitting speaks for itself.
Some of what coach was saying was simply being politically correct.
I remember posting in the Deboer thread on why don't they watch the old CCCP videos.
This team we got here, ironically colored red, looks like it watches those videos.
...because as good as our cast is. None of these guys were doing exactly what they were doing anywhere else.
Ladies and gentlemen, I think with this overall feeling of last night's loss, we officially have
!~!~!~C HEMISTRY~!~!~!:
Last edited by CHGoalie72: 12-10-2011 at 01:28 PM.
Hes spilled blood for 16 yrs in the NHL, he knows how to give the boys a break and still be focused. This was awesome.
CH you had to see the pix tweeted by Goldie and gr from wohlman rink!!! Tons of fans came out, the players wore fdny hats... Theodore played offense...fantastic!
I remember posting in the Deboer thread on why don't they watch the old CCCP videos.
This team we got here, ironically colored red, looks like it watches those videos.
...because as good as our cast is. None of these guys were doing exactly what they were doing anywhere else.
Ladies and gentlemen, I think with this overall feeling of last night's loss, we officially have
Hes spilled blood for 16 yrs in the NHL, he knows how to give the boys a break and still be focused. This was awesome.
CH you had to see the pix tweeted by Goldie and gr from wohlman rink!!! Tons of fans came out, the players wore fdny hats... Theodore played offense...fantastic!
I agree, the group just looks so great together having fun and relaxing, it's a great idea and Dineen looks like he was joking around from some of the pictures, the players love this. It's a long season and they need to have fun after back to back games.
!~!~!~C HEMISTRY~!~!~!
:
