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Goalie Controversy Thread vol. 4?

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Old
11-28-2011, 04:00 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Even using .906, is that good enough? (Yes, Jame, it's a small sample size). Given the way Miller is ripped for his .909--Ryan was at .930 through October. Or is it alright for Enroth to do that considering he has a cheaper contract?
A player is his numbers. Enroth's .909 through the past 7 hasn't been good enough, nor was Miller's .909 through 11. Miller has a higher standard because of his contract, yes, though that's been argued many times before.

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If the analysis is who should be the night-in, night-out starter, the numbers Enroth posts while getting less rest and teams are prepping almost exclusively for him are relevant.
Sure they are, but coming in cold off the bench isn't really fair to add in there.

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11-28-2011, 04:06 PM
  #352
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If the analysis is who should be the night-in, night-out starter, the numbers Enroth posts while getting less rest and teams are prepping almost exclusively for him are relevant.
I'm just trying to understand the rationale between including the "off the bench in the 3rd" numbers of the Boston game into your analysis. And if you were truely looking at "night in/night out numbers" and concluded it was necessary to include the Boston relief game, then why didn't you include the game 24 hours before that, if you were really interested in night in/night out ?

It's just an example of playing with numbers to fit an agenda... i mean what else would lead you to use the Boston game, and not the Ottawa game?

I understand you came up with a nice phrase to wrap around it..."since Miller went down...". But you were clearly aware that adding the relief boston game, and excluding the previous start would drag his % down almost 10 full points

nice try though

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11-28-2011, 04:12 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If they are both here. Start Miller. That's what you are paying him for. He's more experienced. Go Miller!

But paying 5 million more for a few % points in saves is a waste... and IF... IF.... IF there were some trade proposal that upgrade the guys in front of the goaltender, then any "talent" edge Miller MIGHT have would be erased by the improvements made to the team through trading him.

If Miller is healthy... he starts. He's obviously more proven and accomplished.

If all things are equal (health)
and the roster in front of the goal is what it is today... then I want Miller to start until Enroth EARNS the job from him.

But in hypothetical, silly rumors world.

Enroth + Return on Miller Trade
>
Enroth + Miller or Miller + Return on Enroth trade
See, I think Enroth + Miller is the most ideal situation, at least until the expiration of Enroth's current deal. It's at that point I think the decision will and should be made Both give you very good chances to win every night. You dump one, you're once again chasing a backup--and possibly even a starter if you dump Miller--who gives you a fantastic chance to win. We've seen that for the last four seasons. I don't want to go back there.

I think we can improve the team by making changes outside of the goaltender position. For example, we have far too much money invested in wingers; we have a metric ****-ton of defenseman prospects who could be flipped for forward prospects; our defense can still be improved through UFA.

I despise the premise that in order for the team to be better we need to trade Miller. I think it's silly, frankly, as well as short-sighted, and ignores better alternatives for team improvement. If Enroth maintains consistency through the 2012-13 season then by all means move Miller prior to the last year of his contract. But I think we'd be playing an extremely dangerous game if we do so now, or in the very near future.

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11-28-2011, 04:13 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I'm just trying to understand the rationale between including the "off the bench in the 3rd" numbers of the Boston game into your analysis. And if you were truely looking at "night in/night out numbers" and concluded it was necessary to include the Boston relief game, then why didn't you include the game 24 hours before that, if you were really interested in night in/night out ?

It's just an example of playing with numbers to fit an agenda... i mean what else would lead you to use the Boston game, and not the Ottawa game?

I understand you came up with a nice phrase to wrap around it..."since Miller went down...". But you were clearly aware that adding the relief boston game, and excluding the previous start would drag his % down almost 10 full points

nice try though
I've told you that I'm fine with using the .906 number. Which, IMO, still isn't very good.

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11-28-2011, 04:22 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
See, I think Enroth + Miller is the most ideal situation, at least until the expiration of Enroth's current deal. It's at that point I think the decision will and should be made Both give you very good chances to win every night. You dump one, you're once again chasing a backup--and possibly even a starter if you dump Miller--who gives you a fantastic chance to win. We've seen that for the last four seasons. I don't want to go back there.
The last 5 seasons have only shown me that the team isn't built right to contend, and changes need to be made. If another GM valued goaltending the way i DON'T. I see a huge opportunity to make a move to get closer to a cup.

Some think Miller is the key to building a contender. I agree with this, we just have different ideas of how that key should be used.

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I think we can improve the team by making changes outside of the goaltender position. For example, we have far too much money invested in wingers; we have a metric ****-ton of defenseman prospects who could be flipped for forward prospects; our defense can still be improved through UFA.
Completely agree. I also think you are talking about small changes, nothing that would acquire the "big fish" type. If Miller is a franchise, vezina, top 5 goalie... he must be worth a lot atleast to some GMs. Someone thought to give up a potential top 5-10 pick for Varlamov for pete's sake.

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I despise the premise that in order for the team to be better we need to trade Miller. I think it's silly, frankly, as well as short-sighted, and ignores better alternatives for team improvement. If Enroth maintains consistency through the 2012-13 season then by all means move Miller prior to the last year of his contract. But I think we'd be playing an extremely dangerous game if we do so now, or in the very near future.
We don't NEED to trade anyone.
It should simply be something on the table to consider.

Personally, I think Roy and Miller are, and have been, the problem. So I'm looking forward to getting assets for them since they will have 1 and 2 years left on their deals respectively in this coming offseason.

I'd like to reload, and build the Pegula era around a new core. Im willing to be patient, the Rochester core must go. They've stunk up the joint.

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