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Goalie Controversy Thread vol. 4?

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Old
11-05-2011, 02:18 PM
  #76
TehDoak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
3-0 .958 1.29

Let's ride the hot goaltender

Where are all those "the wins in October/November are just as important as the ones in March"...

We will certainly play Miller again... but If I'm coach, I ride a hot goaltender ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. Everything else goalie related is secondary.
I have to disagree here. We have two goalies, one the established, entrenched starter who is a top 5 goalie in the NHL, and a young goalie who is just starting to show he can play at the NHL level.

It is far too early to just say 'Ok, let's forget about the last 5 seasons where Miller has been one of our or our best players and go with this guy who has proven next to nothing in the NHL'

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11-05-2011, 02:31 PM
  #77
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No question about it. Miller's had a couple of bad games. He did not prepare himself for Philly (neither was the rest of the team which seems like a bigger problem than just the goalie to me). Two of those goals revealed problems with his technique and positioning. Definitely fixable and looking at history, Miller will get it together.

Enroth is the backup everyone on this board has been looking for since I dunno, Biron left. Comes in cold off the bench and pitches a shutout. Follows up with another superb effort (even tho Calgary was obviously tired and off). Enroth (and the post and crossbar) was there to make the stops. All part of the equipment.

I don't expect Miller to have everything ironed out by tonight. I think he'll need more time to work thru this. And he needs to be allowed to do that. Thankfully, we're facing Ottawa-Winnipeg-Ottawa and not the Caps-Pens-etc.. The team around Miller needs to be strong enough to allow Miller to get his game back. When he does (and he will), everything will be fine.

So use the next couple to allow Ryan to be on top of his game when we play the Bruins and Habs.

Enroth - and I love this guy - is like temporary vehicle repair coverage - protection for when the main car is in the shop getting fixed.

I want my truck back even tho I like the short term loaner they gave me.

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11-05-2011, 02:52 PM
  #78
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No controversy here, unless we see Enroth tonight at Ottawa. Then, we got us a controversy.

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11-05-2011, 03:49 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
I have to disagree here. We have two goalies, one the established, entrenched starter who is a top 5 goalie in the NHL, and a young goalie who is just starting to show he can play at the NHL level.

It is far too early to just say 'Ok, let's forget about the last 5 seasons where Miller has been one of our or our best players and go with this guy who has proven next to nothing in the NHL'
first, outside of wins, Miller is not statistically a top 5 goalie. You can take a measurement of time over the course of his career, and outside of one season, he was never statistically a top 5 goalie.

second, im not saying forget about Miller. All I'm saying, is that you should ALWAYS ride a hot goaltender. Always. Enroth is not going to go a half dozen games with a sub 2.00 GA and a 950 sp. Miller would easily be back in the picture soon. But you ride a hot hand. Unless you let politics make the decision, in which case, you are making a bad decision.

the only question i'd be asking, that would relate to starting miller tonight, is whether it is believed that he's too mentally weak to take a back seat in the short term so the team can ride a hot goalie.

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11-05-2011, 03:51 PM
  #80
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Cam Ward was a young, inexperienced goaltender, but the canes rode him in the playoffs. He was hot, and it won them a cup.

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11-05-2011, 03:53 PM
  #81
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i predict the Sabres blow a 3rd period lead, and the GCT erupts for debate about how the GA is not Miller's fault.

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11-05-2011, 04:04 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i predict the Sabres blow a 3rd period lead, and the GCT erupts for debate about how the GA is not Miller's fault.
If the goal isn't a stoppable shot, you're damn right I'm going to defend him. The G"C"T would still blow up - but that says more about the Miller haters than anyone else.

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11-05-2011, 04:08 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i predict the Sabres blow a 3rd period lead, and the GCT erupts for debate about how the GA is not Miller's fault.
Now you're making it all Miller's fault before the game is even played? Someone's just looking for an argument.

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Old
11-05-2011, 04:08 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
If the goal isn't a stoppable shot, you're damn right I'm going to defend him. The G"C"T would still blow up - but that says more about the Miller haters than anyone else.
Some people seem to think a wrist shot going top shelf isn't stoppable. If you're an NHL goaltender, it damn well better be.

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11-05-2011, 04:09 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
If the goal isn't a stoppable shot, you're damn right I'm going to defend him. The G"C"T would still blow up - but that says more about the Miller haters than anyone else.
Enroth can stop all the same "stoppable" shots that Miller can... as can most goalies.

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Old
11-05-2011, 04:20 PM
  #86
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Crosspostin' regarding standards for goaltenders and Sabres' philosophy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Ellis Problems View Post
Consider goaltender "A" as the average NHL netminder with skill similar to Enroth, and "B" a goaltender of Miller's caliber. You can either pay "A" a contract with a cap hit of $X, or pay "B" a higher salary, or $Y.

All things being equal, let's say:

B averages out to a .922 or so SP for a season.
A averages out to .910 over the same span.

I don't feel these productions would be too radical in terms of Enroth/Miller, but you may disagree.

Let's say the Sabres D gives up 35 shots per game. B gives up 224 goals, A 258 over a season. That's two more goals allowed every 5 games by A.

The question, then, is if $Y-X could be used to better support A's team to the point where B's absence doesn't negatively affect the team's record. The Sabres, in offering Miller a contract that made him one of the highest paid goalies in the league, made the decision in favor of B. This decision requires Miller to live up to the performance expected of him and maintain the difference between B and A's production, or else $Y-X begins to look much more attractive in terms of acquiring either an offensive player that can help produce more than 2 goals per 5 games or a defensive player that would lower opponents' scoring by more than 2 per 5.

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11-05-2011, 04:29 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatterson14206 View Post
Some people seem to think a wrist shot going top shelf isn't stoppable. If you're an NHL goaltender, it damn well better be.
Where did I say that? I'm talking more like the deflection goal that goes from going into your body to off the post and in (without slowing down much at all) like what happened on the game winning goal against Florida.

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11-05-2011, 04:30 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Enroth can stop all the same "stoppable" shots that Miller can... as can most goalies.
There are different levels of "stoppable". Miller has been reamed by certain people for goals that no goalie should be expected to stop. But, as I mentioned in a thread a couple weeks ago, one shouldn't expect a reasonable discussion about goaltending with you. Miller is and has been a top 10 goalie in this league and is the clear cut starter. Your starter does not sit both nights of a back to back - especially when his last start was such a stinker, from both him and his teammates. That's not calling Miller a diva - that's acknowleding that you're not coaching robots or video game sprites.


Last edited by jflory81: 11-05-2011 at 04:35 PM.
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Old
11-05-2011, 04:38 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Where did I say that? I'm talking more like the deflection goal that goes from going into your body to off the post and in (without slowing down much at all) like what happened on the game winning goal against Florida.
I said some people. No need to be so defensive.

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Old
11-05-2011, 05:05 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i predict the Sabres blow a 3rd period lead, and the GCT erupts for debate about how the GA is not Miller's fault.
Oh stop. I noticed you didn't call last night's goal against a soft one, which is doubly ironic considering your rant about how goaltenders have time to adjust to deflections 20 feet out--and Tanguay's tip was at least that far out. I don't think it was soft, I'm just noting the double standard.

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Old
11-05-2011, 05:13 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i predict the Sabres blow a 3rd period lead, and the GCT erupts for debate about how the GA loss is not all Miller's fault.
Fixed.

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Old
11-05-2011, 05:39 PM
  #92
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Look what you did Jame.

You wanted a GCT, we got ourselves a GC if Enroth wins tonight.

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11-05-2011, 05:40 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Cam Ward was a young, inexperienced goaltender, but the canes rode him in the playoffs. He was hot, and it won them a cup.
He also got chased several times.

We both know Carolina's 'cup' victory was the flukiest cup victory in recent memory. Ward got chased several times during the playoffs including an implosion in a potential cup clinching game in Edmonton as well as a losing a game 5 at home where they could have won the cup.

And it wasn't a Vezina winner who he chased from the crease, it was a very average starter in Martin Gerber. AND Gerber started the playoffs for them and lost the first two games. AND Gerber got a start in the ECF that got chased after Ward got chased.

That is an awful example.

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11-05-2011, 05:48 PM
  #94
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ENROTH TWO STARTS IN A ROW. LETS STICKY THIS AND TALK IN ALL CAPS FROM NOW ON!!!!

hehe

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Old
11-05-2011, 06:18 PM
  #95
Jame
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wow... i guess a great coach like Lindy Ruff agrees with me

ride the hot goalie

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11-05-2011, 07:20 PM
  #96
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Didn't Lindy originally say that Ryan would get this start? Does anyone know if he was asked about it right after the Flames game?

I only ask because if he suddenly did an about face, it would make me wonder if maybe Darcy said something to him about it. That would be the most intriguing of all possible worlds, I tell you that.

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11-05-2011, 08:07 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by BigZackKassian View Post
Look what you did Jame.

You wanted a GCT, we got ourselves a GC if Enroth wins tonight.
No we won't.

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11-05-2011, 08:57 PM
  #98
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enroth for life, *****es

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Old
11-05-2011, 08:57 PM
  #99
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ride the hot goaltender

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Old
11-05-2011, 08:57 PM
  #100
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ride the hot goaltender
indeed

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