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Hobey Baker Award- Early favorite is....

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Old
10-22-2011, 12:22 PM
  #1
msv957
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Hobey Baker Award- Early favorite is....

Have to go with Chris Kreider.

He is dominating this year in college and is now producing the points that make him one of the best prospects not in the NHL.

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10-22-2011, 12:37 PM
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ponder
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Jaden Schwartz was dominant last year as a freshman, and should be even better this year as a sophomore, he'd be my early favourite.

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10-22-2011, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Have to go with Chris Kreider.

He is dominating this year in college and is now producing the points that make him one of the best prospects not in the NHL.
I like Kreider also but c'on man, "dominating"?


He is playing very well but he is tied with 19 other players for 14th in the NCAA in scoring..lets not going crazy now.

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10-22-2011, 12:45 PM
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cleverusername
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Have to go with Chris Kreider.

He is dominating this year in college and is now producing the points that make him one of the best prospects not in the NHL.
Bill Arnold is a lot more terrifying than Kreider already and he's a year younger.

PS: Matt Nieto

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10-22-2011, 12:47 PM
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Yosemite Sam
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The early favourite has to be Jaden Schwartz.

Seriously... Kreider?

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10-22-2011, 12:57 PM
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Ched Brosky
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going with the non sexy pick... a goalie, Joe Cannata.

He was a finalist last year who put up impressive stats and already he's making those stats look like an average year

good article on his impressive year last year: http://www.eagletribune.com/sports/x...ey-Baker-Award

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10-22-2011, 02:19 PM
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homer pick but Danny Kristo ?

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10-22-2011, 02:49 PM
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Schwartz wasn't even picked as the preseason WCHA player of the year, favorite for the Hobey? Don't see it.

In fact, I don't envision a highly touted prospect winning the award. In the end it'll be a tenured NCAA player that will take it in my opinion. Who that player is, hard to say given the field. A lot of quality options.

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10-22-2011, 02:53 PM
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Justin Schultz leads his team in scoring as a D-man. I'm sure he'll be in the running by seasons end.

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10-22-2011, 07:04 PM
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Yosemite Sam
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
Schwartz wasn't even picked as the preseason WCHA player of the year, favorite for the Hobey? Don't see it.

In fact, I don't envision a highly touted prospect winning the award. In the end it'll be a tenured NCAA player that will take it in my opinion. Who that player is, hard to say given the field. A lot of quality options.
You could be right, but don't preface your second point by discounting his chances at the Hobey Baker simply because he wasn't chosen WCHA "Preseason Player of the Year" by media. The debate club would hand you your ass with an arguments like that, especially considering Jason Zucker got all of 10 votes to Schwartz's 8.

The only reason he wasn't a HB finalist last year as a freshman was because he got hurt. His ppg was third in the entire NCAA and the guys he was up against were all seniors. He's ready to take over.

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/sta...2011&stat=PtPG

By the way, Zucker, chosen as the WCHA's magical "Preseason Player of the Year" didn't even come close to Schwartz's production last year. You can find him 33rd on that list I posted above. All that to say this "award" is nothing but a league promotion and is not to be taken seriously. Jaden Schwartz, however, is.

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10-22-2011, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fever Dreams View Post
Justin Schultz leads his team in scoring as a D-man. I'm sure he'll be in the running by seasons end.
Yeah, he had an amazing year last year and is strong out of the gates. He could pull it off.

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10-22-2011, 07:51 PM
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Any chance Reilly Smith will be in the running?

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10-22-2011, 08:12 PM
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Kulemon
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Schwartz ftw

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Old
10-22-2011, 08:43 PM
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Gotta like Anders Lee's start with 8 goals already. However him and Tynan probably limit each others chances to win.

I like Brian O'neill to win, but Yale's season hasn't started yet.

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10-22-2011, 09:54 PM
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homer pick but Danny Kristo ?
He's now 4-7-11 in 6 games.

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Old
10-22-2011, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleverusername View Post
Bill Arnold is a lot more terrifying than Kreider already and he's a year younger.

PS: Matt Nieto
Ok Homer, Arnold is average at best.

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Old
10-23-2011, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
By the way, Zucker, chosen as the WCHA's magical "Preseason Player of the Year" didn't even come close to Schwartz's production last year. You can find him 33rd on that list I posted above. All that to say this "award" is nothing but a league promotion and is not to be taken seriously. Jaden Schwartz, however, is.
Do colleges hand out second assists? Because they can be misleading.

As well; Zucker t-13th for goals with 23 and Jaden is t-43 with 17. But even more telling is Zucker had more game winning goals.

Furthermore he has continued on his tear and has as many PPG this year as Schwartz.

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10-23-2011, 01:11 AM
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10-23-2011, 01:21 AM
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Haula or Bjugstad.

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10-23-2011, 05:35 AM
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My pick - Brian O'Neill, Yale.

Just like this kid and think he's going to have a head turning year.

The safer bet to me, is Jack Connolly of UMD...


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Old
10-23-2011, 07:27 AM
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UvBnDatsyuked
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Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Do colleges hand out second assists? Because they can be misleading.
As well; Zucker t-13th for goals with 23 and Jaden is t-43 with 17. But even more telling is Zucker had more game winning goals.

Furthermore he has continued on his tear and has as many PPG this year as Schwartz.
Yes College hands out second assists.

Not sure what your point is but when comparing players and bringing up secondary assists, you need to keep in mind that both players have the same opportunities for secondary assists.

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10-23-2011, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
You could be right, but don't preface your second point by discounting his chances at the Hobey Baker simply because he wasn't chosen WCHA "Preseason Player of the Year" by media. The debate club would hand you your ass with an arguments like that, especially considering Jason Zucker got all of 10 votes to Schwartz's 8.

The only reason he wasn't a HB finalist last year as a freshman was because he got hurt. His ppg was third in the entire NCAA and the guys he was up against were all seniors. He's ready to take over.

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/sta...2011&stat=PtPG

By the way, Zucker, chosen as the WCHA's magical "Preseason Player of the Year" didn't even come close to Schwartz's production last year. You can find him 33rd on that list I posted above. All that to say this "award" is nothing but a league promotion and is not to be taken seriously. Jaden Schwartz, however, is.
While I agree that using the "Preseason Player of the Year" or even the "Freshman of the Year" awards in the WCHA probably isn't fair, at the same time I don't see how you can use PPG pace as an argument with a straight face given the small sample size of of the college season in general. Not to mention Schwartz played 3/4's the number of games most all of the players listed in the link you provided. Anybody well versed in statistics in sports would argue you need to give players a larger sample size than that to allow them to normalize. Especially missing that sort of time in relation to the majority.

Which sort of minimizes your claim that "Zucker didn't come close to Schwartz's production last season" when he in fact he certainly did as he was on that same PPG pace for the majority of the season.

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10-23-2011, 08:17 AM
  #23
Yosemite Sam
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
Which sort of minimizes your claim that "Zucker didn't come close to Schwartz's production last season" when he in fact he certainly did as he was on that same PPG pace for the majority of the season.

Zucker: 1.1250 ppg (40 games)
Schwartz: 1.5667 ppg (30 games)

That's "close"? Like I said, it was the difference between being 3rd and being 33rd in the league in ppg, so... no, it wasn't really close. And it's not like Schwartz's sample size was 10 games or something.

And this year, his opponents are taking notice of Schwartz based on his performance on the ice, not last year's stats:

The Beavers were competitive against Colorado College but could not hold a 4-3 lead going into the third period Saturday night and lost 6-4. “The cream rose to the top there with Jaden Schwartz,” Serratore said. “I’m not going to say he’s the top player in the country but he’s one of the top three or four. He just took over and was a threat every time he was on the ice…We tried and played well but at the end of the day, the line with Jaden and his brother (Rylan) were the difference in that game.”
Bemidji State head coach Tom Serratore
http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/event/.../id/100032382/

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Old
10-23-2011, 08:21 AM
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Old
10-23-2011, 09:28 AM
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this providence
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Zucker: 1.1250 ppg (40 games)
Schwartz: 1.5667 ppg (30 games)

That's "close"? Like I said, it was the difference between being 3rd and being 33rd in the league in ppg, so... no, it wasn't really close. And it's not like Schwartz's sample size was 10 games or something.

And this year, his opponents are taking notice of Schwartz based on his performance on the ice, not last year's stats:

The Beavers were competitive against Colorado College but could not hold a 4-3 lead going into the third period Saturday night and lost 6-4. “The cream rose to the top there with Jaden Schwartz,” Serratore said. “I’m not going to say he’s the top player in the country but he’s one of the top three or four. He just took over and was a threat every time he was on the ice…We tried and played well but at the end of the day, the line with Jaden and his brother (Rylan) were the difference in that game.”
Bemidji State head coach Tom Serratore
http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/event/.../id/100032382/
Yawn.

.4 of PPG pace on the basis of 30-40 games played? While one of those players missed a quarter of the year? Yea, that's close. It certainly isn't the distance you're trying to make it out to be given the sample size. Any of those players hovering over a PPG pace can have a 30 game stretch taken out of their last season's performance and look respectable in comparison. Again, with any use of statistics in sports you need to account for sample size, especially if you're going to use it in relation to a player who missed that sort of time in comparison to the field. It's not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Cherry picking quotes is fun. Especially from a coach who's not at all relevant on the national college scene as of yet at a non-factor school. The same can be done for any player in the game. For instance, from one of, if not the best, collegiate coaches in the NCAA:

Quote:
"He's got the ability to make plays out of nothing," said Blais. "He's got a great shot, gets it off quick. … He had a great year for Denver, and every time we played them last year (Blais coached against him at the University of Nebraska-Omaha) he was noticeable. He was one of those players that when he touched the puck, he made something happen."
NHL.com

In a proud manner, Nebraska-Omaha coach Dean Blais​ said he isn't surprised to see freshman Jason Zucker on the brink of winning the Western Collegiate Hockey Association scoring title.

"I saw this coming," Blais said after Zucker scored his 19th and 20th goals Saturday, leading the University of Denver to a 4-2 victory over the Mavericks at the Qwest Center in Omaha. "He's a special player."

"Denver's not going to have him very long," Blais said with a smile. "But right now he's getting good coaching with George (Gwoz-decky), and he's happy. He'll play on the world junior team again this year (in December) because he's young enough, and he'll be an impact player for the United States."
Denver Post
Again, not denying that Schwartz is a good collegiate player nor a strong NHL prospect. If you want to poke holes in a quickly worded and half-serious post, feel free to come back using something more than PPG pace (in greatly shortened season) and a hyperbolic, at best, statement.

Like I said from the beginning, I believe the likely winner of this award will come from a veteran NCAA player in a conference not up to par with some of the better conferences in the game.

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