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Old
11-11-2011, 07:22 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
In the midst of a decent tirade on the lack of direction Howson has taken, Arace has to ruin it by bringing in, yet again, his presonal angst over the failure to hire Dineen. It's not so much that he's wrong, Dineen might have turned out better (could he possibly have been worse?), but hearing it from Arace one more time just makes me sick. It's as if he's saying, "had they only listened to me and picked my choice for HC, all would have been fine." Yeah, right, that's all that was needed and you were in perfect position to see it, Mike. **** about it, Arace, it's old and tired. Dineen didn't get the job and Arniel did. You bringing it up at every opportunity is just annoying and self-serving.
To be fair he should have mentioned Boucher and Noel as well.

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11-11-2011, 07:25 AM
  #102
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I hate to say it but I think we are stuck with Howson until the realignment is settled. I think they need to start with Priest and begin filling out the front office with "hockey people" and then fire Howson.

As far as Arniel, he needs to go now. Everyday that passes he just looks more clueless. He reminds me of Gallant just before he was fired when he answered evey question with "I don't know". Arniel is like the parent that wants to be their kid's best friend when what they really need is some good old fashioned discipline.

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11-11-2011, 07:32 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
To be fair he should have mentioned Boucher and Noel as well.
He should stick to analysis of the current problems and give up on the 20/20 hindsight. There is no solution in the past, if Arace is so smart, find the answers NOW. Continuing to harp on what he wanted done two years ago is of no use and is, as I said, tiresome and self-serving. I know you liked Dineen, too, so you probably don't find it nearly as annoying as I.

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Old
11-11-2011, 07:36 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by GScott View Post
I hate to say it but I think we are stuck with Howson until the realignment is settled. I think they need to start with Priest and begin filling out the front office with "hockey people" and then fire Howson.

As far as Arniel, he needs to go now. Everyday that passes he just looks more clueless. He reminds me of Gallant just before he was fired when he answered evey question with "I don't know". Arniel is like the parent that wants to be their kid's best friend when what they really need is some good old fashioned discipline.
I'm not sure you're not right that it's time for him to go, but I disagree with your read on the situation and his place in it. Arny's played the hard-ass. And clueless he might be, or honest. Even as things were going very badly, Hitch contended to the bitter end he could get through to his charges, and honestly, at the end he didn't fare any better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
He should stick to analysis of the current problems and give up on the 20/20 hindsight. There is no solution in the past, if Arace is so smart, find the answers NOW. Continuing to harp on what he wanted done two years ago is of no use and is, as I said, tiresome and self-serving. I know you liked Dineen, too, so you probably don't find it nearly as annoying as I.
Hard to tell how annoying Robert thinks you are.

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11-11-2011, 07:37 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
He should stick to analysis of the current problems and give up on the 20/20 hindsight. There is no solution in the past, if Arace is so smart, find the answers NOW. Continuing to harp on what he wanted done two years ago is of no use and is, as I said, tiresome and self-serving. I know you liked Dineen, too, so you probably don't find it nearly as annoying as I.
Hit a nerve with me as well Pete. You're not alone feeling that was uncalled for.

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11-11-2011, 07:49 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by fox2usp View Post
Hit a nerve with me as well Pete. You're not alone feeling that was uncalled for.
Arniel had a decent start to his first season as an NHL head coach too, Dineen will face adversity.... Arace always seems to be so aloof of these problems....

Everyone of his columns the last two and half seasons has always been proven wrong by himself just a week or two after the writing...

Arace has lost all credibility with me.


Last edited by KeithBWhittington: 11-11-2011 at 08:08 AM.
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11-11-2011, 07:53 AM
  #107
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Don't be so hard on the coach, he has to deal with the hand he has been dealt. A team full of minor leaguers is not going to win in the NHL regardless what you try to do. This is all on Howson and his ability to evaluate talent. You have about 6 or 7 bonefied NHLers on this team. As the old saying goes "You can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear". Or "put lipstick on and pig, it is still a pig"

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11-11-2011, 07:57 AM
  #108
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Arace has always been more interested in filling up his columns with words that appear on his daily thesaurus word of the day desktop calendar than actually providing any semblance of actual sports analysis (it's not just limited to his hockey columns). His articles are an insufferable waste of time.

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:02 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Don't be so hard on the coach, he has to deal with the hand he has been dealt. A team full of minor leaguers is not going to win in the NHL regardless what you try to do. This is all on Howson and his ability to evaluate talent. You have about 6 or 7 bonefied NHLers on this team. As the old saying goes "You can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear". Or "put lipstick on and pig, it is still a pig"
Watch out saying this, it's extreme hyperbole according to some of the experts.

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:20 AM
  #110
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From the top to the Bottom of this franchise, ownership, to management to the coaches and players: Is there a more inept group dictating franchise direction in the NHL?

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:26 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post



Hard to tell how annoying Robert thinks you are.

Let's not ask him, then, OK? (and I meant "I do,'' not "I am"!)

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:34 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
From the top to the Bottom of this franchise, ownership, to management to the coaches and players: Is there a more inept group dictating franchise direction in professional sports?
FYP.

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:43 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
From the top to the Bottom of this franchise, ownership, to management to the coaches and players: Is there a more inept group dictating franchise direction in the NHL?


Priest = Goofy
Howson = Mickey Mouse
Arniel = Donald Duck

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:53 AM
  #114
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There has to be some major **** sucking around here, because people still have their jobs.

Since we probably don't have enough fans left to make a decent protest, can we hire the Occupy WS people as mercenary protesters for the next home game?

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Old
11-11-2011, 09:03 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
In the midst of a decent tirade on the lack of direction Howson has taken, Arace has to ruin it by bringing in, yet again, his presonal angst over the failure to hire Dineen. It's not so much that he's wrong, Dineen might have turned out better (could he possibly have been worse?), but hearing it from Arace one more time just makes me sick. It's as if he's saying, "had they only listened to me and picked my choice for HC, all would have been fine." Yeah, right, that's all that was needed and you were in perfect position to see it, Mike. **** about it, Arace, it's old and tired. Dineen didn't get the job and Arniel did. You bringing it up at every opportunity is just annoying and self-serving.
As I was reading the Dispatch this morning, almost the exact same thought went through my mind. Unlike many, I actually like most of Arace's writing, EXCEPT he doesn't know when to move on. He has shown this trait time and again.

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Old
11-11-2011, 09:06 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
As I was reading the Dispatch this morning, almost the exact same thought went through my mind. Unlike many, I actually like most of Arace's writing, EXCEPT he doesn't know when to move on. He has shown this trait time and again.
Yes, I'm also usually a fan of MA, but this is a consistent failing.

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:28 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Hard to tell how annoying Robert thinks you are.
Not at all, Arace is a columnist... past, present and future is his domain. As for the thread, I'm still disappointed at Priest for hiring Howson over Rick Dudley, Arace may mention that in the future...


Last edited by Robert: 11-11-2011 at 01:50 PM.
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Old
11-11-2011, 12:41 PM
  #118
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If you think the defense that Hitch had was what he was looking for, you are misinformed. Very misinformed. Hitch was not looking for pure shut down guys, at least not more than one or two for match up purposes.

Go see if you can dig up sound clips of him harping on the defense joining the rush. I remember clips of him saying we needed to move the puck better from the back end. Every time he would try and give the defense more free reign, their lack of skill set would become pronounced, odd man rushes would occur, and he'd have to adjust to what he had. Why do you think he was so desperate to get Russell going?

Hitch knew the defense needed improvement after the playoff run. What he got was Stralman. Do you think that's what he wanted?

Do you remember all the preaching of moving as a 5 man unit? The short passes? Did you notice that it opened up some as we went along and got slightly better personal from when Hitch was first hired? He was compensating for a lack of talent within the system.

There is a deep, fundamental misunderstanding of what Hitch wanted and now wants.

As far as Arniel and Howson goes, they seem to be on this new NHL defensemen kick. Mobile puck movers are good, but you have to have that guy that can match up with the top teams players and chew up a lot of minutes. By definition that guy should be fairly mobile and being a good puck mover is helpful. There really isn't someone on this team to really pair up with Wiz, since we've decided he's a 1/2 guy. We keep putting people in roles that aren't capable of playing for 82+ games. Klesla was the closest thing we had, but he couldn't stay healthy. It also appeared that he wasn't mobile or a good enough puck mover for Arniel.
The first part isn't entirely true. Yes, Hitchcock wanted defensemen to be able to work to produce offense. But in games against teams where there was a talent disparity (Detroit, for example), the ability to create a blob in a big chunk of the defensive zone and force perimeter shots was the lowest common denominator. The defensive corps that he had in Dallas and Philadelphia could certainly move the puck, but there were some stonehanded guys on each that logged big minutes and were invaluable for games against better offensive teams.

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Which to me, points to the heart of the problem with Howson--he's busy reacting instead of having a cohesive vision for this team. Palinka's own comments are an admission of this. Howson didn't have a vision for the team--he accepted Hitch's. And then, when he finally got a chance at a clean slate, instead of a picking a coach who could adapt to whatever vision Howson should have had, apparently he once again went with the vision of an inexperienced coach?!

If you want to know why this team has no identity and is more of a collection of players than a team, this is why.
I don't know that I agree with this. Having a coach and a GM on the same page is extremely important in any sport, and it doesn't really matter who's the dominant voice. The obvious problem comes if a coach moves on, in which case the chances that he's going to be replaced by someone who doesn't share the same mentality is high.

Arniel made a name for himself in the AHL (and in his tenure in Buffalo) as someone who was able to adapt well to whatever the talent level was, whether by adjusting the game plans or by juggling lines and pairings depending on situation. That's what makes the last 50 or so games so baffling; it's like he's gone from trying to create a spark to just throwing **** up against a wall.

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11-11-2011, 12:52 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Palinka View Post
I don't know that I agree with this. Having a coach and a GM on the same page is extremely important in any sport, and it doesn't really matter who's the dominant voice. The obvious problem comes if a coach moves on, in which case the chances that he's going to be replaced by someone who doesn't share the same mentality is high.

Arniel made a name for himself in the AHL (and in his tenure in Buffalo) as someone who was able to adapt well to whatever the talent level was, whether by adjusting the game plans or by juggling lines and pairings depending on situation. That's what makes the last 50 or so games so baffling; it's like he's gone from trying to create a spark to just throwing **** up against a wall.
It absolutely does matter in hockey. I could care less about other sports, but in hockey, I want a GM who is running things and building the team from the top down.

You're left to defend this GM by passing the buck to the coach he himself hired. If he wanted continuity, he could have brought in a coach that could have more easily coached the existing team. He didn't. That was his choice. To now pass it off on Arniel is pathetic. The man is left to throw crap against a wall because crap is what his GM gave him to work with.

This is exactly like the GG/Doug situation all over again. The GM is the problem, but the coach may well be the one this ownership group cans. Making the mistake that was made with Hitch by bringing in a coach before the GM will set this team back yet again.

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:55 PM
  #121
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so you're saying fire arniel and put howson behind the bench

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11-11-2011, 01:00 PM
  #122
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It absolutely does matter in hockey. I could care less about other sports, but in hockey, I want a GM who is running things and building the team from the top down.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Quote:
You're left to defend this GM by passing the buck to the coach he himself hired. If he wanted continuity, he could have brought in a coach that could have more easily coached the existing team. He didn't. That was his choice. To now pass it off on Arniel is pathetic. The man is left to throw crap against a wall because crap is what his GM gave him to work with.
How many of the players who constitute "crap" have previously demonstrated an ability to play NHL hockey at a high level? And I don't mean five or ten years ago, but in the last two or three years. Has Umberger gone from "heart and soul, indispensable, can't do without" to "crap"? Has Vermette gone from "can do everything, produces points and plays in all zones" to "crap"? Has Brassard gone from "up and coming playmaker" to "crap"? I'd say that all three of those guys (and a few more) have certainly played like crap and that goes a long way toward explaining the largely mediocre play on the ice, but I'm not sure how a handful of players who haven't yet hit 30 looking like this is on the GM.

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11-11-2011, 01:10 PM
  #123
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How many of the players who constitute "crap" have previously demonstrated an ability to play NHL hockey at a high level? And I don't mean five or ten years ago, but in the last two or three years. Has Umberger gone from "heart and soul, indispensable, can't do without" to "crap"? Has Vermette gone from "can do everything, produces points and plays in all zones" to "crap"? Has Brassard gone from "up and coming playmaker" to "crap"? I'd say that all three of those guys (and a few more) have certainly played like crap and that goes a long way toward explaining the largely mediocre play on the ice, but I'm not sure how a handful of players who haven't yet hit 30 looking like this is on the GM.
Do I really have to answer you about Brassard? He's not a has-been, he's a never-was.

The other problem is, just because a player has performed before, doesn't mean he will perform to that level under changed circumstances. There is NO depth beyond the top two lines on this team. This may be the worst depth this team has had in quite some time. Opponents have often gone strength vs. strength against our top line...leaving the checking line to completely shutdown the likes of Umberger and Vermette. Until they get burned doing it, they'll keep doing it against us. And with no firepower further down the lineup, they will likely succeed.

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Old
11-11-2011, 01:10 PM
  #124
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I just had a thought about why Howson may still be in place. With the Board of Governors meeting to discuss realignment coming up in December and Howson having made a plea at the last BoGs meeting about moving the Jackets East, is it possible that the folks in charge may be leaving Howson in place for the sake of continuity? Might management be worried that removing Howson now may cause their argument for moving East to be lost in the shuffle?

Admittedly, I don't know much about the BoGs or the politics behind the scenes, I'm still pretty "green" as a hockey fan. I was just curious to see what some of you folks, who probably know much more about it than me, may think about this.


Last edited by aDreamboat: 11-11-2011 at 01:20 PM.
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11-11-2011, 01:31 PM
  #125
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I just had a thought about why Howson may still be in place. With the Board of Governors meeting to discuss realignment coming up in December and Howson having made a plea at the last BoGs meeting about moving the Jackets East, is it possible that the folks in charge may be leaving Howson in place for the sake of continuity? Might management be worried that removing Howson now may cause their argument for moving East to be lost in the shuffle?

Admittedly, I don't know much about the BoGs or the politics behind the scenes, I'm still pretty "green" as a hockey fan. I was just curious to see what some of you folks, who probably know much more about it than me, may think about this.
If this is why Priest & Co.men.com still employ Howson - then they are the dopiest, dopey dopes ever. Howson is the most marginal of voices anywhere in hockey - and what he says/believes/does is completely irrelevant to the powers that be.

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