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Payne fired - Ken Hitchcock new coach

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Old
11-07-2011, 01:47 AM
  #101
HooliganX2
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Thanks for this post.

If you can't find reason to be optimistic from Hitchcock's record, how about Armstrong's record of all the moves he's pulled since he's been in St Louis? Hasn't the guy showed some sharp judgement and made some great trades? Why would he be unable to evaluate coaching talent?

(Sounds like the Blues may re-assign Payne within the organization. That would be classy, if he wants it.)
Armstrong got fired in favor of Hull if we really want to talk about his past record.

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11-07-2011, 01:54 AM
  #102
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This is one of those threads that should be saved and revisited in two months.

Hitchcock is one of the most respected hockey minds in the NHL. He's a proven winner and he will get this team playing or there will be more heads rolling.

If anything can be taken from this move is that the players had better start playing or they will be riding the bench/playing in the minors. This is two coaches this team has gotten fired. Maybe it's not the coach, maybe its the vaunted Faberge eggs that have been anointed the saviors of the franchise. At some point you have to hold the players accountable, and I have a feeling if things dont turn around quickly, Army will start moving some under performing players.

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11-07-2011, 03:54 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
Maybe it's not the coach, maybe its the vaunted Faberge eggs that have been anointed the saviors of the franchise. At some point you have to hold the players accountable, and I have a feeling if things dont turn around quickly, Army will start moving some under performing players.
By far, the two worst under-performing players are Stewart and Berglund...both of whom had outstanding finishes to last year (and positive years as a whole last year), and both of whom are 23/24 years old.

There are reasonable expectations for players that age, and then there are unreasonable ones. Expecting players that age to be playing like "franchise saviors" is unreasonable. Oshie is starting to reach that age where it's "put-up or shut-up" time (and, generally, I think he's doing just fine), but those other two are still realistically 2 to 3 years from even beginning to enter their prime. I'm not saying that gives them a free pass, but any reasonable judgement over their play would certainly take those caveats into account.

In general, I can't believe we're freaking out over 13 games to the point where we would seriously consider trading those guys. Stewart's only played 39 games with us for Pete's sake, and he's posted 17 goals and 23 points over that span with an even +/-. I want the Blues to make the playoffs as badly as anyone, but shipping out Berglund or Stewart (or Oshie for that matter) would be a huge mistake unless there's some serious talent coming back the other way.

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11-07-2011, 04:22 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
In general, I can't believe we're freaking out over 13 games to the point where we would seriously consider trading those guys. Stewart's only played 39 games with us for Pete's sake, and he's posted 17 goals and 23 points over that span with an even +/-. I want the Blues to make the playoffs as badly as anyone, but shipping out Berglund or Stewart (or Oshie for that matter) would be a huge mistake unless there's some serious talent coming back the other way.
I have to agree. I'd hate to see either Berglund or Stewart traded away. This off-season the hype for these two was extremely high, so it's not a surprise that people are disappointed with their production. It needs to be higher. But 13 games isn't enough of a sample size, in my opinion. Can you imagine trading away Berglund and then having to watch him develop into the player most fans think he can be on another team? That would suck.

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11-07-2011, 07:54 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
why? blues have been good this year
You haven't been watching the Blues have you?

I think Hitch will be a good coach for us. Look at CBJ without him. If he is that much of a difference maker on a team that has many more problems besides coaching, the Blues should improve a lot.

And I don't like this "he is a product of the old NHL" coach BS. Look at Quinville. Actually a pretty similar situation too. Savard gets fired 4 games into the season then the hawks get Q and they win the cup the next year. Who would have thought that after the Hawks fired Savard?

Anyways, Hitch has some great NHL accomplishments:
1 Stanley Cup
9 Playoff appearances.
6 Division titles.
Brought CBJ their first and only playoff appearance.
534-350-88-70 Record.
15 NHL coaching seasons.


It's not all doom and gloom Blues fans. If the players are underperforming it's up to the coach to fix it and Payne wasn't doing that. Regardless of what you think of Payne (and I liked him) he is ultimately responsible here.

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11-07-2011, 07:57 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Armstrong got fired in favor of Hull if we really want to talk about his past record.
Just because army wasn't smiling like a doghnut for the Dallas FO doesn't mean hes no good.

Besides, Hull makes for better PR in Dallas then Army.

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11-07-2011, 08:07 AM
  #107
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I liked Payne for 3 reasons.

1. He stressed being physical more then any coach we have had going back as far as I have been a fan (Kitchin days)

2. He trully gave players regardless of age a chance to shine here. D'ago owes him a lot.

3. He stayed positive and optimistic with our players. He didn'yt blame the players as oftin as some coachs like Hitchcock. Perhaps this is a fault though and players didn't feel pressure?



People comparing Hitchcock and Murray are way off. Murray played a defensive system forcing play along the boards and lots of dump n chase play, very rarely would he have 3 hard forcheckers. Always having a guy back. Hitchcock on the other hands plays a neutraul zone trap. players have to keep the head up and when the see an opening the whole team forchecks hard and must work hard to get back.(somthing that should be doable here as we have a fast team) Just because they both play think D first does not make them alike at all. They are two completely different styles.


Personally I think Hitchcock will fail here. The game is not what it was once apon a time. This team is going to either 1 be short handed a lot because they are obstructinbg players in the neutraul zone (happened a lot in Columbus) or players will be completely afraid to hit,stick lift etc. because if they do take a penalty at the wrong time hitchcock will have there head and they will be 4th liners.

I hope I am wrong and Hitchcock get's this team rolling and pucks out of our net.

The Blues are going to make the playoffs, but I think that could be said with Payne as coach. So, when we barely slide in and everyone praises Hitchcock I wont. We have a team that would likely make it either way. Firing Payne so early is a bad choice. This is why teams like Detroit always win in the end. You don't see them firing Babcock because they are off to a slow start. They will make the playoffs and Edmonton will not. Just to early for this move.

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11-07-2011, 08:11 AM
  #108
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I'll reserve judgement on Hitchcock until there's a body of work with him as the Blues head coach.

What there's no denying is, this same core of players lack of consistent play has cost two coaches their job.

At some point the players will be held accountable.

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11-07-2011, 08:36 AM
  #109
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Most of these assistant coaches are still holdovers from Murray. I would guess Hitchcock will bring in his own staff now.

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11-07-2011, 09:12 AM
  #110
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to be fair, DA made several bold moves not everyone here was glad with, and at the most times he was right...we have to wait and see (obviously our only choice)

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11-07-2011, 09:16 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by BrokenFace View Post
Anyway, I'm mostly concerned that Hitchcock's biggest success came before the lock-out.
Take a look at that CBJ 08/09 roster. You might reconsider that statement.

CBJ fan first and foremost. The Jackets fired the wrong guy in Hitch. It's hard to get past your preconceived notions of Hitch, most in CBJ land haven't. You're going to get more structure and he'll simplify players roles. He's going to have your team play the game they are capable of.

At any rate, good luck. You are now my second favorite team. I'll have to get gamecenter now, as the Hitch style of hockey is what I enjoy watching. It's going to be a bit odd to supporting two teams in the same division, especially since just yesterday morning you were probably my 3rd of 4th least favorite team in the NHL. However, this gives me the opportunity to get more intimately familiar with another team to the level I am with the CBJ.

This is going to give me a good distraction for the debacle that is the CBJ.

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11-07-2011, 09:32 AM
  #112
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Strange firing. I would blame Davidson, he is another example of a slick talking color commentator conning ownership. Now you know why the Rangers never hired him as a manager after all the years he worked for them.

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11-07-2011, 09:34 AM
  #113
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The move has been made but I haven't seen anyone mention that the Blues have played only 4 home games while playing 9 on the road. 6 Ws - 7 Ls is respectable for a team that has played 9 of their first 13 games on the road. This may turn out to be a good move but Payne didn't get a fair shake. Hitchcock has the benefit of the Blues next 5 games all being played at home.


Last edited by stlweir: 11-07-2011 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Addition
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11-07-2011, 09:42 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
The move has been made but I haven't seen anyone mention that the Blues have played only 4 home games while playing 9 on the road. 6 Ws - 7 Ls is respectable for a team that has played 9 of their first 13 games on the road. This may turn out to be a good move but Payne didn't get a fair shake.
Exactly. I would have liked to see Payne have more time this year, but what's done is done.

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11-07-2011, 09:45 AM
  #115
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I don't necessarily mind having an old guard disciplinarian (though I'd prefer Quennville in a perfect world) but I do think its kind of dumb to place blame squarely on Payne and not any other member of the coaching staff. I'm sure Brad Shaw is a great guy, but come on now. Corey Hirsch is probably doing all he can.


Weird timing with all this.

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11-07-2011, 09:48 AM
  #116
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Maybe, not going to touch whether he should have been fired. Haven't watched this team that much to be honest.

But on the surface a continued winning of one of every 3 pace on the road isn't going to cut it if you want to be a playoff team. You probably wouldn't have stayed at that pace, but you'll need better road results.

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11-07-2011, 09:52 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
The move has been made but I haven't seen anyone mention that the Blues have played only 4 home games while playing 9 on the road. 6 Ws - 7 Ls is respectable for a team that has played 9 of their first 13 games on the road. This may turn out to be a good move but Payne didn't get a fair shake.
This is very true... But, if (hopefully)we start winning now, I think with Hich behind the bench, He can really Boost this team... We were missing something, maybe Payne was not able to get everything out of our guys.. Payne was/is a good coach, but IMO something was just missing, and now was time to do something...

But, NOW we really have to start winning games!!! Business isn't fair, that we know...

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11-07-2011, 10:44 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
The move has been made but I haven't seen anyone mention that the Blues have played only 4 home games while playing 9 on the road. 6 Ws - 7 Ls is respectable for a team that has played 9 of their first 13 games on the road. This may turn out to be a good move but Payne didn't get a fair shake. Hitchcock has the benefit of the Blues next 5 games all being played at home.
I don't think this is so much about wins/losses as it is about the way the team looks on the ice. The special teams aren't performing. The Minnesota game, the Edmonton game....those were painful to watch. That did not look like a well-drilled team. They were out of synch and it was pretty much every line.

I still expected Payne's team to make the playoffs, but there was a dramatic difference between the start of last season and the start of this season, and only a part of it was the goaltending.

Partially Payne is a scapegoat, but I see this as a move made towards a multi-year playoff run. I think Armstrong didn't see Payne as the eventual cup-winning coach here. Hitchcock could be. He's got a lot of playoff (and Cup) experience.

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11-07-2011, 10:49 AM
  #119
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So last night my friend calls and tells me that Payne has been fired and Hitchcock is the new coach. Now maybe it was because I had just woken up (I work midnights) but my reaction was simple... Oh.....uhm.....okay. So I come to forums to see what other posters thought of this move and saw that it was mostly negative.

Now instead of posting something right away I figured I would go to work and think about it a little more before giving my thoughts. So roughly 13 hours later here I am with my reaction.


... Oh.....uhm.....okay.

I mean I just have no reaction at all.

Maybe I have just tempered my expectations due to this teams continued mediocre play. I know they have the skill (they have shown it from time to time) but this is now there third coach in 5 years and I am beginning to think no one (not even Erb Brooks) could get a consistent effort from this team night in and night out. Sorry to be a debbie downer but to me that has been the biggest problem with this team in recent years

Maybe a taskmaster like Hitchcock can finally get it out of these players but until then I'll remain skeptical that this team will be anything but a playoff bubble team.


Edit: Also about Payne, I feel like he did a good job here in his tenure but he is not quite ready to take on a team that is ready for the next step. Dubbed a players coach, I think he would be a great coach for a team starting a rebuild as he can relate well to youth. On a personal note I have met Payne at IceZone after practice on a couple of occasions and he is nice guy and I wish him nothing but the best.


Last edited by Blanick: 11-07-2011 at 10:55 AM.
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11-07-2011, 10:55 AM
  #120
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by 87turbobuick View Post
Strange firing. I would blame Davidson, he is another example of a slick talking color commentator conning ownership. Now you know why the Rangers never hired him as a manager after all the years he worked for them.
Yeah, I've never been a huge fan of Davidson, he always put of the used car salesman vibe to me.

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11-07-2011, 11:37 AM
  #121
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Press conference is just starting on FSMW

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11-07-2011, 11:44 AM
  #122
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First off...he's gonna have to learn how to say Pietrangelo

Also "I don't like Jason Arnott...he broke my heart and I'll never forget that" Haha

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11-07-2011, 11:46 AM
  #123
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Is it the black or has he lost weight?

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11-07-2011, 11:47 AM
  #124
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Is it the black or has he lost weight?
I'm waiting for him to stand up...cuz I was thinking the same thing.

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11-07-2011, 11:54 AM
  #125
Lucifer T Longfellow
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Originally Posted by Spektre View Post
I'll reserve judgement on Hitchcock until there's a body of work with him as the Blues head coach.

What there's no denying is, this same core of players lack of consistent play has cost two coaches their job.

At some point the players will be held accountable.
I agree with this, and I agree with Walter that the first player to be held accountable will be Berglund and I don't think that that is such a bad thing. When he moves his feet and plays with confidence he is a force, but too often he just floats out there and might as well not be dressed on those nights. It also could be that Berglund is a slow starter, he wasn't very good at the start of last season either.

As for Hitchcock, I'll wait to see before I make a judgement. But this team is under performing and something had to change.

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