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The Karlsson Konundrum

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Old
11-07-2011, 08:41 AM
  #1
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The Karlsson Konundrum

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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Wonder when they start to re-new Karlsson. He's going to get a nice raise I think and I'd rather it be done sooner than later. Maybe not Weber money but certainly in the 4.5-5 range I'd think
Guess they can't start until January 1st. I assume they won't even begin to talk until Karlsson's officially announced for the all-star game.

From yesterday:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...megadrop_story

For the ongoing Karlsson contract discussion.

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Old
11-07-2011, 08:51 AM
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Something in the 3-4mil range would be nice. The kid needs to improve his defense if he wants the really big bucks. Otherwise he's gonna get eaten alive by the media.

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Old
11-07-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Batali Crocs View Post
Something in the 3-4mil range would be nice. The kid needs to improve his defense if he wants the really big bucks. Otherwise he's gonna get eaten alive by the media.
Would be shocked if he got Luke Schenn money.

Schenn's a defensive defensemen that doesn't and I don't think ever really has been one of the teams top minute getters. If Karlsson struggles defensively, it's usually against players earning 4-8 million dollars.

Karlsson's defense hasn't really been an issue this year, the bitter taste from his -30 last year lasts in the mouths of Ottawa's media though. It could be a contentious issue, but if he continues to improve it may not be so much of an issue.With another expected ASG appearance, potentially a 60 point season, and finishing the season as one of the leagues minute leaders....they'll struggle to keep him under 5.

I'm kinda hoping for 6-8 years at 4.5-5 at this point.

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11-07-2011, 09:07 AM
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6yrs - 30M.

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Old
11-07-2011, 09:10 AM
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Sign him for life please, whatever money he wants.

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11-07-2011, 09:12 AM
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A 5 million cap hit is the bare minimum. To get it that low, he would probably have to sign for a looooong time.

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Old
11-07-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The NHL Rulebook View Post
A 5 million cap hit is the bare minimum. To get it that low, he would probably have to sign for a looooong time.
Myers' contract will be used to bargain.

5.5 on the cap for 7 years.

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11-07-2011, 09:45 AM
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My guess :

4.5 per for 3 years (total : 13.5)

Brings him to his last RFA year.

Or if they go longer term :

48.0 for 8 years (6.0 cap hit)

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Old
11-07-2011, 09:55 AM
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Consider that guys out there like Doughty may put up similar points.

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Myers' contract will be used to bargain.

5.5 on the cap for 7 years.
I think that sounds about right.

I find it really confusing how so many people are talking about him being terrible defensively all the time. I think he's playing pretty well defensively - obviously he's going to make a few more giveaways because he's young and offensively oriented, but given his size he's doing a pretty decent job back there.

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Would be shocked if he got Luke Schenn money.

Schenn's a defensive defensemen that doesn't and I don't think ever really has been one of the teams top minute getters. If Karlsson struggles defensively, it's usually against players earning 4-8 million dollars.

Karlsson's defense hasn't really been an issue this year, the bitter taste from his -30 last year lasts in the mouths of Ottawa's media though. It could be a contentious issue, but if he continues to improve it may not be so much of an issue.With another expected ASG appearance, potentially a 60 point season, and finishing the season as one of the leagues minute leaders....they'll struggle to keep him under 5.

I'm kinda hoping for 6-8 years at 4.5-5 at this point.

Umm, he is horrid defensively. You don't have to remember back too far to recall him giving away a goal..last game. I love the kid but he has made zero commitment to improving himself defensively. I have no reason to believe that he will improve his game defensively as this is his 3rd year and it's the same ole.

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11-07-2011, 10:07 AM
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I'd like to give him a medium sized contract hovering around 3 years. I just want him to have every motivation possible for getting better, even if part of that is to get money! Now i realize that it could cost us more money in the long term, but i think it might be worth it.

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11-07-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
Umm, he is horrid defensively. You don't have to remember back too far to recall him giving away a goal..last game. I love the kid but he has made zero commitment to improving himself defensively. I have no reason to believe that he will improve his game defensively as this is his 3rd year and it's the same ole.
Quote:
MacLean had his star's back in his postgame media address.

"No, it's not Karlsson at all," he said. "The forward came back looking for the puck and then turned away."
Surely MacLean has it out for Butler and was just protecting EK.

To say he hasn't been clearly a better defensive player than he was last year is pretty laughable up until this point. He wouldn't be leading the league in TOI if he was horrid defensively, having watched all of last season it's not hard to see the gaffs are much less frequent and much less glaring.

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11-07-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
Umm, he is horrid defensively. You don't have to remember back too far to recall him giving away a goal..last game. I love the kid but he has made zero commitment to improving himself defensively. I have no reason to believe that he will improve his game defensively as this is his 3rd year and it's the same ole.
No he's been pretty solid actually, I don't know what games you're watching. Giveaways happen, yes it was brutal, but even MacLean said that the goal happened because the forward turned away at the last second.

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11-07-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
My guess :

4.5 per for 3 years (total : 13.5)

Brings him to his last RFA year.

Or if they go longer term :

48.0 for 8 years (6.0 cap hit)
I'm in agreement with these two scenarios. He'll either sign til the near end of his RFA or go longer term on a cap hit that may look bad for the first 2 years but if he continues to progress like we hope, it will be a steal in the long run. I think with the inflation of salaries though a 6 million cap hit over an 8 year period is very realistic.

I think the Murrays will opt for a shorter term deal though, with the CBA up for renegotiation and the fact that they'll want to see him earn his salary in the future. I like the 4.5 for 3 years. He didn't qualify as an 18 year old so he started in the league as a 19 year old which means he would become a UFA at 27 correct? If that's the case I like to see a deal in which he signs up to a year before he becomes a UFA.

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:21 AM
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Old
11-07-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
Umm, he is horrid defensively. You don't have to remember back too far to recall him giving away a goal..last game. I love the kid but he has made zero commitment to improving himself defensively. I have no reason to believe that he will improve his game defensively as this is his 3rd year and it's the same ole.
If your referring to the mtl that was just as much butlers fault as he was going to open ice and then after karlsson begins to pass it he ( for unknown reasons) decides to turn the other way. Resulting in a 2-0 for mtl in the slot.

Hes never going to be great in his own zone but if you dont see improvment so far then you have already been blinded by the media.

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
Umm, he is horrid defensively. You don't have to remember back too far to recall him giving away a goal..last game. I love the kid but he has made zero commitment to improving himself defensively. I have no reason to believe that he will improve his game defensively as this is his 3rd year and it's the same ole.
Well he wasn't on the ice for a goal against last game, so let's assume you're talking about the Habs game. Let's also assume that you watched the game, and that you think Denis Potvin is an idiot- and so discounted his assessment of the play.

Here's a picture of the play. Where's the open man?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Butlerderp.JPG‎ (42.9 KB, 103 views)

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:46 AM
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EK has been absolutly horrible defensively.
It's easy to over look that because hiss breakout speed, and offensive game is ridiculous.

I'd give him 3 years - $4.5 per.
If he doesn't bite, I just hand him a piece of paper and a pen and say, right down whatever you want.

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobby View Post
EK has been absolutly horrible defensively.
It's easy to over look that because hiss breakout speed, and offensive game is ridiculous.

I'd give him 3 years - $4.5 per.
If he doesn't bite, I just hand him a piece of paper and a pen and say, right down whatever you want.
If he's horrible defensively this year I'd love to hear the word you have to describe his play last year.

He wouldn't be out there as much as he is if he was struggling so bad. Plain and simple.

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11-07-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobby View Post
EK has been absolutly horrible defensively.
It's easy to over look that because hiss breakout speed, and offensive game is ridiculous.

I'd give him 3 years - $4.5 per.
If he doesn't bite, I just hand him a piece of paper and a pen and say, right down whatever you want.
If he's playing 16 minutes instead and facing the other teams 3rd line, are we going to classify him differently? He's done incredibly well, with a few hiccups, so far this season.

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SeanMonahan View Post
If he's playing 16 minutes instead and facing the other teams 3rd line, are we going to classify him differently? He's done incredibly well, with a few hiccups, so far this season.
There's probably a select group here that would say Rundblad is likely a better defensive player just because he's been good against opponents 3rd lines. The Ottawa media wouldn't know the difference if Karlsson had been eased into defensive duty since his rookie year, they'd think he was exceptional if he played D against easier opponents.

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11-07-2011, 10:56 AM
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Sorry lads,

But I watch every game. And that's what I see.
He's easy knocked off the puck, and gets too cute in the defensive zone.
He still needs to improve mightly in his own zone.

It's plain and simple to see.

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11-07-2011, 10:58 AM
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One shockingly bad play he made that directly resulted in a goal was his flubbed clearing attempt in the Ranger game.

He's not getting walked on like 9MM did to Myers, though...

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Old
11-07-2011, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobby View Post
Sorry lads,

But I watch every game. And that's what I see.
He's easy knocked off the puck, and gets too cute in the defensive zone.
He still needs to improve mightly in his own zone.

It's plain and simple to see.
No ones argued he's perfect. He's 21 and still the smallest Dman in the game. Has clearly made strides in his defensive game since last season. What more can we ask for?

For some reason the second straight coach thinks he should be out there the most clearly of anyone on the team. He's playing the minutes most 21 year olds can only dream of playing by the time their 30.

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