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2012 NHL Entry Draft

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Old
06-01-2012, 12:41 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by gulfcoastdawg View Post
First let's acknowledge that the hardest thing to acquire in free agency or a trade is high end offensive talent. Goalies, defensive D-men and grinding forwards are often found bargain shopping. For a small market team like Phoenix I believe it is imperative to identify and draft high end potential offensive players with early picks
and benefit from their low cost years of ELC and RFA.

Most high end offensive talent is drafted in the first round and especially by the 45th pick. After that your odds of hitting offensive talent is pretty much the same through the end of the draft but you can somewhat improve on this if you are willing
to draft some smaller players downgraded simply due to size.

Given the above I would vote for Hertl (if still there at 27 and I am thinking more and more he won't be); or Bozon a winger with Top 6 skills and and aggressiveness.

Given the current depth at defense I would not draft another D man until lthe 3rd
round and would favor a puck moving defenseman.

Will try to identify some later round offensive talent in the next few days.
BPA is BPA. It's a D heavy draft so I would put our chances of selecting a D with that first pick at around 50/50.

I haven't put together my own personal ranking just yet (which I do every year so I can celebrate if I'm close or chastise our management if I'm completely out to lunch - I like to have an opinion and by making it public it removes any claim that I'm doing this in hindsight; this has led to some interesting discussions over last years selection Connor Murphy who I had in my Top 20 and the second player left on my list at the time of the selection) but will have something out in next ten days or so.

Personally I think we are trying to move up to ensure we land a forward. Our new head of scouting is going to be targeting hockey sense.

If we are unable to move up I would not be opposed to dealing that 27th pick for a couple of 2nds provided that one of those picks is just a few selections back.

I think this is going to be one of the busiest trade days in draft day history. Moving up may cost us a Chris Summers. Keep that in mind.

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06-01-2012, 12:45 PM
  #402
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BPA is BPA. It's a D heavy draft so I would put our chances of selecting a D with that first pick at around 50/50.

I haven't put together my own personal ranking just yet (which I do every year so I can celebrate if I'm close or chastise our management if I'm completely out to lunch - I like to have an opinion and by making it public it removes any claim that I'm doing this in hindsight; this has led to some interesting discussions over last years selection Connor Murphy who I had in my Top 20 and the second player left on my list at the time of the selection) but will have something out in next ten days or so.

Personally I think we are trying to move up to ensure we land a forward. Our new head of scouting is going to be targeting hockey sense.

If we are unable to move up I would not be opposed to dealing that 27th pick for a couple of 2nds provided that one of those picks is just a few selections back.

I think this is going to be one of the busiest trade days in draft day history. Moving up may cost us a Chris Summers. Keep that in mind.
Hockey sense is the number one thing I look for in a prospect, and I weigh it even more heavily for forwards. It's why I had Jaden Schwartz ranked so highly a couple years ago.

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06-01-2012, 12:52 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Hockey sense is the number one thing I look for in a prospect, and I weigh it even more heavily for forwards. It's why I had Jaden Schwartz ranked so highly a couple years ago.
Our director of scouting is also based out of Vancouver so I would think we will be somewhat biased to the WHL. Sissons might be our guy but I don't think I would support moving up to get him. Of course I say this now.

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06-01-2012, 01:05 PM
  #404
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Every year I go through this phase on who I think the Coyotes top prospect can fetch in the draft. Since I don't follow juniors that well, I only speculate from the hype that I read about. This year it's Gormley for Foreberg...

but anyways, I can see Sclemko, Summers, and a few in the "A" to be in play during the draft. (not necessarily all, but any).

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06-01-2012, 01:17 PM
  #405
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Our director of scouting is also based out of Vancouver so I would think we will be somewhat biased to the WHL. Sissons might be our guy but I don't think I would support moving up to get him. Of course I say this now.
I wouldn't even take Sissons if he were sitting there at 27. I'd definitely take Bozon over him, and maybe a few other WHL guys, too.

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06-01-2012, 09:41 PM
  #406
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NHL TEAMS WARY OF PROSPECTS WHO COULD BOLT FOR KHL

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"Part of the problem is you never get them to buy in," said Phoenix Coyotes GM Don Maloney. "There's always that little option that when you face some adversity, it's easier just to say 'nyet' and go in the other direction (to the KHL) instead of making it work. You have that out.

"I think I can speak to probably every manager in the game saying there's some hesitation there."

That much was made clear to the current batch of Russian prospects as they were subjected to interviews from as many as 20 teams. Even Yakupov and Grigorenko, who both moved from their homeland to play in the Canadian Hockey League, found themselves repeatedly explaining their future intentions.
Coyotes could be looking for trade partner

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"We're probably more inclined to move the pick one way or the other," he said. "A lot of this stuff gets talked about and dealt with on the draft floor. You look at what might be there. What's the value of dropping some to get an extra pick or two? Does that make sense? Or is there a guy that's sitting there that you might have in your top 12 sitting there at 19 or 20, you say maybe we throw something together to get up. For me, it's really exploring where we can go with it."

"We may get to our pick and it's an average forward and a real good defenseman, and we'll take the defenseman," he said. "That's the attitude we have."

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06-01-2012, 11:50 PM
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Dan! My god, HE LIVES! Welcome back!

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06-01-2012, 11:53 PM
  #408
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Let's just move it for a player, Don. They always talk about asset management and BPA, right? I bet our 1st has more trade value than Connor Murphy. If they aren't at all high on any foward at 27, just trade the effing pick. Get us a real player that can help now.

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06-02-2012, 01:31 AM
  #409
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We may get to our pick and it's an average forward and a real good defenseman, and we'll take the defenseman,
If we draft a defenseman in the first round for the fourth year in a row I'm going to snap and go straight up bath salts on people.

Package it with a prospect to get a roster player or drop back into the top/middle of the second round and grab a forward then while picking up a 3rd-5th rounder.

I'm still salty about the CMurph pick though, I had my heart set on either of the Sea Dogs forwards (Phillips & Jurco).

I don't think all the forwards will be gone come 27 though. One of Frk, Hertl, Laughton, Bozon, etc should be there.

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06-02-2012, 05:17 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by OOEEL View Post
If we draft a defenseman in the first round for the fourth year in a row I'm going to snap and go straight up bath salts on people.
Other than Hanzal and Yandle in 2005, the picks of OEL and Gormley are probably the most significant picks in the history of Coyote drafting.

Both are now highly coveted prospects who could now fetch more than a Phillips or Jurco in return. Too early to say on Murphy - that could easily go either way. Given what GMDM was able to turn Turris into, I have no problem with letting him do the asset management on this one.

Does look like a forward should slip though.. I've seen Girgensons could fall into range as well - he'd be my top choice, I think he'd be great with Boedker.

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06-02-2012, 08:45 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Other than Hanzal and Yandle in 2005, the picks of OEL and Gormley are probably the most significant picks in the history of Coyote drafting.

Both are now highly coveted prospects who could now fetch more than a Phillips or Jurco in return. Too early to say on Murphy - that could easily go either way. Given what GMDM was able to turn Turris into, I have no problem with letting him do the asset management on this one.

Does look like a forward should slip though.. I've seen Girgensons could fall into range as well - he'd be my top choice, I think he'd be great with Boedker.
If Giregensons is serious about going to Vermont in the NCAA and not play in the CHL then he will likely fall. I remember hearing the quote that "Vermont is where hockey prospects go to die".

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06-02-2012, 08:54 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by OOEEL View Post
If we draft a defenseman in the first round for the fourth year in a row I'm going to snap and go straight up bath salts on people.

Package it with a prospect to get a roster player or drop back into the top/middle of the second round and grab a forward then while picking up a 3rd-5th rounder.

I'm still salty about the CMurph pick though, I had my heart set on either of the Sea Dogs forwards (Phillips & Jurco).

I don't think all the forwards will be gone come 27 though. One of Frk, Hertl, Laughton, Bozon, etc should be there.
Connor Murphy was an astute selection. I've had several rants on this prospect so all I will say is I really liked the selection.

The problem with our 1st rounder is its the 27th pick. Moving up is going to cost us something potentially large (like a Connor Murphy but preferably a Chris Summers). Even then I think we may only squeak into the late teens or early 20's. I just don't know if we will have a dance partner.

The more likely scenario would be dropping back and picking up a couple of second rounders or a 2nd and a 3rd rounder. Here you are probably dropping back 5-10 slots and getting the same guy you could have taken at 27 and getting another asset along the way. I think this type of move depends on the number of goalies taken in the first round and whether or not NJ forfeits their pick (which they would be stupid not to).

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06-02-2012, 09:09 AM
  #413
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Connor Murphy was an astute selection. I've had several rants on this prospect so all I will say is I really liked the selection.

The problem with our 1st rounder is its the 27th pick. Moving up is going to cost us something potentially large (like a Connor Murphy but preferably a Chris Summers). Even then I think we may only squeak into the late teens or early 20's. I just don't know if we will have a dance partner.

The more likely scenario would be dropping back and picking up a couple of second rounders or a 2nd and a 3rd rounder. Here you are probably dropping back 5-10 slots and getting the same guy you could have taken at 27 and getting another asset along the way. I think this type of move depends on the number of goalies taken in the first round and whether or not NJ forfeits their pick (which they would be stupid not to).
I agree about Conor Murphy. Based upon some posts on this board when he was drafted, I went to last year's rookie training camp expecting to be disappointed. I came away impressed. He has good hands, hockey sense, etc. I also liked the centerman we drafted who people said was a nepotism pick (I have forgotten his name at the moment). He had good explosion. To be honest, I was more impressed with Murphy than Andy Miele. If Murphy stays healthy, I could see him developing into a solid NHL player.

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06-02-2012, 09:13 AM
  #414
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I agree about Conor Murphy. Based upon some posts on this board when he was drafted, I went to last year's rookie training camp expecting to be disappointed. I came away impressed. He has good hands, hockey sense, etc. I also liked the centerman we drafted who people said was a nepotism pick (I have forgotten his name at the moment). He had good explosion. To be honest, I was more impressed with Murphy than Andy Miele. If Murphy stays healthy, I could see him developing into a solid NHL player.
He's also a RD and Morris's contract expires in 2 seasons. It's pretty easy to see where this is going.

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06-02-2012, 09:35 AM
  #415
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Well Maloney is certainly being up front and honest on the issue. Long and the short of it though is this franchise cannot literally afford to have prospects constantly jumping back to the KHL. You can't make a roster spot available for a player you are not sure will be there.

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06-02-2012, 10:47 AM
  #416
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The problem with our 1st rounder is its the 27th pick. Moving up is going to cost us something potentially large (like a Connor Murphy but preferably a Chris Summers). Even then I think we may only squeak into the late teens or early 20's. I just don't know if we will have a dance partner.

The more likely scenario would be dropping back and picking up a couple of second rounders or a 2nd and a 3rd rounder. Here you are probably dropping back 5-10 slots and getting the same guy you could have taken at 27 and getting another asset along the way. I think this type of move depends on the number of goalies taken in the first round and whether or not NJ forfeits their pick (which they would be stupid not to).
Don't you think that a team in the 19-22 range would be okay with picking up Schlemko and a 3rd rounder to move back 5-8 spots and grab either a goalie or D-man?

If there aren't any goalies selected by that time, unless a team absolutely has their heart set on Subban or another goalie, they would be willing to move back a little. Hopefully, a team like Tampa or Boston that could be looking at either goalie or defense with their pick, would say that they are getting a 5/6 guy in Schlemko, and can then turn around and grab a goalie at 27.

I just dont think that it would cost last year's 1st and the 27 pick to move up 5 spots or so....

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06-02-2012, 11:23 AM
  #417
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Don't you think that a team in the 19-22 range would be okay with picking up Schlemko and a 3rd rounder to move back 5-8 spots and grab either a goalie or D-man?

If there aren't any goalies selected by that time, unless a team absolutely has their heart set on Subban or another goalie, they would be willing to move back a little. Hopefully, a team like Tampa or Boston that could be looking at either goalie or defense with their pick, would say that they are getting a 5/6 guy in Schlemko, and can then turn around and grab a goalie at 27.

I just dont think that it would cost last year's 1st and the 27 pick to move up 5 spots or so....
I don't know if Schlemko and a 3rd is a tempting enough offer. Schlemko could be had for a mid round pick at this point so unless you really feel that he can make your top 6 you won't have much in terms of interest. If I'm drafting in the late teens early 20's and I'm debating about getting that extra second to drop back a couple of slots and the offer you presented to be honest I'd take the extra second. Again though it depends on the team. Change Schlemko to Summers and you might have something.

I'm only moving Murphy if something else besides the switch in first rounders is included. Who knows what that would be but off the top of my head I'm thinking a roster player (3rd liner with 2nd line potential) or another forward prospect. Summers is available in my opinion though given that he didn't suit up at all during the playoffs. I actually thought he played well during his call up. I'm surprised he was sort of tossed aside and forgotten about.


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06-03-2012, 09:31 AM
  #418
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I don't know if Schlemko and a 3rd is a tempting enough offer. Schlemko could be had for a mid round pick at this point so unless you really feel that he can make your top 6 you won't have much in terms of interest. If I'm drafting in the late teens early 20's and I'm debating about getting that extra second to drop back a couple of slots and the offer you presented to be honest I'd take the extra second. Again though it depends on the team. Change Schlemko to Summers and you might have something.

I'm only moving Murphy if something else besides the switch in first rounders is included. Who knows what that would be but off the top of my head I'm thinking a roster player (3rd liner with 2nd line potential) or another forward prospect. Summers is available in my opinion though given that he didn't suit up at all during the playoffs. I actually thought he played well during his call up. I'm surprised he was sort of tossed aside and forgotten about.
I would much rather give up Schlemko than Summers. I have never been a Schlemko fan. Based upon your post, though, it sounds like Schlemko has less trade value. I suspected as much (but some other posters disagreed about a month ago).

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06-03-2012, 09:45 AM
  #419
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I still think Schlemko has more trade value, to be honest, and I imagine league scouts have seen a lot more of him than they have of Summers. But we're talking about a couple guys who are already 24 with limited upside.

I don't think either is worth more than what the Coyotes paid for Lepisto when he was a 24-year-old defenseman with limited upside, which was a fifth round pick. As I recall, the Caps traded him because he threatened to go overseas if they sent him down, so they moved him somewhere he would have a good shot at cracking the top 6 (which demand probably lowered his value a tad), and there's a chance another team really likes Summers or Schlemko, so the return could maybe be as high as a third.

To be clear, there are probably some teams that would pay more for Summers than they would for Schlemko, and I personally prefer Summers, but in terms of an average, I think Schlemko would bring back the bigger return.

That all said, if the value is only a 4th rounder, I don't think I make the move. If Rozsival and Aucoin both walk, that means one of these guys definitely becomes an every day player, and the other probably platoons with Mike Stone or Brandon Gormley.

Or if Aucoin stays or gets replaced by a free agent (which is my guess), you're looking at probably 60 games for Schlemko and 40 or so for Summers between spelling Schlemmer and filling in for other injuries. That leaves Stone available in case of emergencies (e.g. two guys getting hurt at once) and lets Gormley spend most or all of the year in the AHL (with maybe a cup of coffee toward the end of the year), which I suspect is Maloney's goal.

If you can get a 4th for Summers or Schlemko but a 6th for Nick Ross or Max Goncharov, wouldn't you rather just take the 6th?

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06-03-2012, 11:50 AM
  #420
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If we draft a defenseman in the first round for the fourth year in a row I'm going to snap and go straight up bath salts on people.
Nicely put.

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06-03-2012, 05:28 PM
  #421
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http://thehockeywriters.com/mike-win...spect-profile/

Wow. Probably right up our new head scout's alley.

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06-03-2012, 05:31 PM
  #422
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Could Maloney possibly make a big splash and work a deal with Edmonton for first overal and Gormley going the other way? I really, really like Gormley but we need offense desperately.

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06-03-2012, 05:33 PM
  #423
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http://thehockeywriters.com/mike-win...spect-profile/

Wow. Probably right up our new head scout's alley.
We were also high on McNeil last year and we drafted Harrison Rupp with one of the two third round picks we received in the Bryzgalov deal. Our scouts have spent some time in Prince Albert.

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06-03-2012, 05:42 PM
  #424
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http://thehockeywriters.com/mike-win...spect-profile/

Wow. Probably right up our new head scout's alley.
Winther was a guy I targeted a while ago as the guy I'd like most if we had to take a WHL forward. This was before I read up on Bozon, who has since leapfrogged Winther, but Winther is a solid player. Reminds me of Brad Marchand.

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06-03-2012, 06:04 PM
  #425
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16ppgs on one of the worst PPs in the Dub makes me seriously take notice. Then I read he's all smarts, skates like the wind, plays with an edge and only has the one drawback of being very small. I can live with that for sure.

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