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Old
06-21-2012, 04:39 PM
  #501
zerekstar
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I hope we trade up if we have to to get Hertl

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06-21-2012, 05:05 PM
  #502
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I wouldnt mind trading down. There could be some good forwards sittingthere early in the 2nd. Pearson, Bozon, Sutter, Samuelsson, Laughton, Kerdiles, Di Guisseppe, etc. All could be hanging out early in round two.

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06-21-2012, 06:01 PM
  #503
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After doing a little more research on the players that are projected to go in the Coyotes range, here is my breakdown:

Tomas Hertl: Has played against men over in the Czech league and seems much more mature physically than other forwards. He also has the upside to potentially be a top 6 forward which is a big plus for this club. He seems to be much closer to making the jump into the AHL or NHL than other forward prospects in this draft (in Coyotes range). The only thing that seems to be holding him back is his footwork/skating ability.

Another player I wouldnt mind the Coyotes grabbing is Stefan Matteau: Big, physical, two way forward that this organization seemed to lack in the LA series. I think that series really showed that the Coyotes forwards need to become more physical/strong. Matteau doesnt project to be a top 6 player, but then again there might not be that many forwards left at #27 with that upside. Matteau is also known for sometimes getting a little too physical at times. Plays the game hard, but sometimes makes a dangerous play because of his intensity. If a coaching staff can channel that intensity and redirect it in other facets of his game he could be a solid NHLer.

One player I would like the Coyotes to stay away from is Sebastien Collberg:Collberg reminds me alot of Turris when watching him play. Has good offensive skill, but lacks in physicality quite a bit. Standing at 5'11 and only weighing 176 he got pushed around a little bit in Sweden. He performed well playing on his junior club over in Sweden, but once he got the call up his numbers took a hit. Grant it he still could develop physically but if there are other options available like the players mentioned above, I would rather the Coyotes go in a different direction.


Sidenote... I have some connections within the Coyotes organization and I was actually able to catch a glimpse of the Coyotes' final player rankings. Didnt get to see the entire list...only the top 5 and it most likely would surprise all of you, sure as hell surprised me.

1. Galchenyuk
2. Forsberg
3. Murray
4. Yakupov
5. Reinhart

I was also told that the team is quite high on Brendan Gaunce, so if he is within reach i wouldnt be surprised to see them jump a few spots to grab him...but I dont know if he will fall far enough to be "within reach"

All in all my prediction is that GMDM will trade the pick for either immediate help up front, or for multiple picks in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

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06-21-2012, 06:06 PM
  #504
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Nashville recently acquired the 37th and the 50th from Tampa for Lindback. They burned their first on Paul Gaustad at the deadline for some stupid reason and might like to get back into the first round.

Maybe our first and our third for both their seconds? It'd leave us with 37, 50, 58 and we'd still have Philly's 3rd we picked up for Bryzgalov.

Betcha Knickle could find a bunch of good WHL boys still on the board. I'm sure one or two of Sissons, Bozon, Samuelsson, Thrower and or Sutter will be there at 37. If not them than certainly one or both of Kerdiles or Matteau. Then at fifty we could probably snag a guy like Winther. Gemel Smith is a personal favorite.

If Nashville were into it, I'd be excited to see what's left by 37. Gaustad is about to walk for nothing and maybe getting back into the first takes a little of the sting off.

Just an idea.

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06-21-2012, 06:13 PM
  #505
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Quote:
1. Galchenyuk
2. Forsberg
3. Murray
4. Yakupov
5. Reinhart
I like seeing Reinhart that high. Means they probably saw an awful lot of Samuelsson.

That is a fairly surprising top five. Yakupov being so low might have a lot to do with the Russian factor Maloney recently spoke about. Galchenyuk isn't really an American in the way the Tikhonov or Namestnikov are but he also isn't a Russian in the way Yakupov or Grigorenko are.

Id love to see more of Forsberg. I honestly saw NOTHING about him that was the least bit impressive during the U20s. Goes to show you how little one tournament really means in the grand scheme.

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06-21-2012, 06:20 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Yakupov being so low might have a lot to do with the Russian factor Maloney recently spoke about.
Yakupov comes off as being kind of cocky and blunt, which is fine because he has phenomenal talent. But with the way Maloney stresses character and having a tight locker room, i can easily see why Yakupov is ranked at #4.

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06-21-2012, 06:33 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by AZcoyotes33 View Post
Yakupov comes off as being kind of cocky and blunt, which is fine because he has phenomenal talent. But with the way Maloney stresses character and having a tight locker room, i can easily see why Yakupov is ranked at #4.
Gaunce on the other hand seems like he's been thirty since he was thirteen. Haha.

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06-21-2012, 07:22 PM
  #508
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Gaunce on the other hand seems like he's been thirty since he was thirteen. Haha.
Though I want them to go with someone more offensive minded, the thing I like about Gaunce Is that he trains with Gary Roberts

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06-21-2012, 08:49 PM
  #509
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Not that I'm advocating trading Gormley, but looking at this draft, if Gormley was coming out this year, does he go before Murray?

And if that logic holds true, then would it be conceivable to trade Gormley plus a little extra to either team #2 or team #3 to get Galchenyuk? Just asking, considering that Gormley is considered to be the best dman on the planet not playing in the NHL.

These are the things I find strange when it comes to the draft. Sometimes the "economics" of the situation play out the way they should and sometimes it's ridiculous what can occur.

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06-21-2012, 09:00 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Sindiggy View Post
Not that I'm advocating trading Gormley, but looking at this draft, if Gormley was coming out this year, does he go before Murray?

And if that logic holds true, then would it be conceivable to trade Gormley plus a little extra to either team #2 or team #3 to get Galchenyuk? Just asking, considering that Gormley is considered to be the best dman on the planet not playing in the NHL.

These are the things I find strange when it comes to the draft. Sometimes the "economics" of the situation play out the way they should and sometimes it's ridiculous what can occur.
I have Gormely ahead of Murray. Of course I had Gormely at #3 his draft year.

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06-21-2012, 09:12 PM
  #511
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Maybe our first and our third for both their seconds? It'd leave us with 37, 50, 58 and we'd still have Philly's 3rd we picked up for Bryzgalov.

Betcha Knickle could find a bunch of good WHL boys still on the board. I'm sure one or two of Sissons, Bozon, Samuelsson, Thrower and or Sutter will be there at 37. If not them than certainly one or both of Kerdiles or Matteau.
Under this scenario, maybe we could combine 50 and 58 to try to get two picks between 30 and 40 and get a shot at two of the players you mentioned?

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06-21-2012, 11:00 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
Round 1: #27
Round 2: #58
Round 3: #81 (from PHL as part of Bryz trade), #88
Round 4: #102 (from COL as part of Winnik trade)
Round 5: #148
Round 6: #178
Round 7: #184 (from MTL as part of Nokelainen trade), #208
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
So far I've taken Dalton Thrower, Gemel Smith, Anton Zlobin, and Logan Nelson. That's through round three.
I have now grabbed Cédric Paquette with the #102. I may start going for the Ruperts with #148 and #178.

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06-22-2012, 11:11 AM
  #513
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So I just read an article slamming Grigorenko. The author called him a "lazy Russian" and hinted that he's actually 20 years old, rather then 18. The author also explained that he feels Grigorenko was hamming up his injury at the WJC and should've stayed in the tournament. Also that he only racked up points in easy games and left his team high and dry in the post season when the going got tough.

Then I watched the NHL Network Mock Draft with Craig Button. He had a different opinion on Grigorenko. He tallked about this kid who grew up twenty miles from the Chinese border, right across the bay from the East Coast of Japan, in one of the furthest eastern outposts in Russia. How he traveled to the other side of the world to Quebec City to play for Patrick Roy on an amateur team in order to improve his NHL stock. That he's all but mastered the English language, has passable French, and made a seamless adjustment to North American life. He talked about how his injury at the WJC was actually worse than he let on and that he came back too soon. He explained that he had a bought of mono late in the season and came back too soon which is why his post-season performance suffered. He stated that he's a very tall, very skinny kid and doesn't waste a lot of movement on the ice, so it can look like he's not moving around with all that much urgency. That just because he hasn't learned to be a fine defensive forward yet doesn't mean he won't. Button feels that not only is Grigorenko's character not a drawback but that it should be a shining light.

Maybe it was the lanky frame, not wasting movement, poor defense comments but I was reminded of the comments made about Martin Hanzal before and at his draft. They said he was slow, lazy, soft, and poor defensively. They said his name might be Hanzal but he plays like Gretel.

Now he's 230lbs, assured a Selke nominated sooner than later, is among the league's leader in hits year after year, and is an all-around beast of an NHL player. Still doesn't move any more than he has to. Oh, and he's an assistant captain at a young age.

Just goes to show how full of **** people can be.

Something to remember tonight.

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06-22-2012, 11:17 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
So I just read an article slamming Grigorenko. The author called him a "lazy Russian" and hinted that he's actually 20 years old, rather then 18. The author also explained that he feels Grigorenko was hamming up his injury at the WJC and should've stayed in the tournament. Also that he only racked up points in easy games and left his team high and dry in the post season when the going got tough.

Then I watched the NHL Network Mock Draft with Craig Button. He had a different opinion on Grigorenko. He tallked about this kid who grew up twenty miles from the Chinese border, right across the bay from the East Coast of Japan, in one of the furthest eastern outposts in Russia. How he traveled to the other side of the world to Quebec City to play for Patrick Roy on an amateur team in order to improve his NHL stock. That he's all but mastered the English language, has passable French, and made a seamless adjustment to North American life. He talked about how his injury at the WJC was actually worse than he let on and that he came back too soon. He explained that he had a bought of mono late in the season and came back too soon which is why his post-season performance suffered. He stated that he's a very tall, very skinny kid and doesn't waste a lot of movement on the ice, so it can look like he's not moving around with all that much urgency. That just because he hasn't learned to be a fine defensive forward yet doesn't mean he won't. Button feels that not only is Grigorenko's character not a drawback but that it should be a shining light.

Maybe it was the lanky frame, not wasting movement, poor defense comments but I was reminded of the comments made about Martin Hanzal before and at his draft. They said he was slow, lazy, soft, and poor defensively. They said his name might be Hanzal but he plays like Gretel.

Now he's 230lbs, assured a Selke nominated sooner than later, is among the league's leader in hits year after year, and is an all-around beast of an NHL player. Still doesn't move any more than he has to. Oh, and he's an assistant captain at a young age.

Just goes to show how full of **** people can be.

Something to remember tonight.
Reading this makes me sad to know we won't be able to draft him. Grigs is bar none my favourite player in the draft. I seriously think he'll have a more successful career than Yakupov.

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06-22-2012, 12:11 PM
  #515
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The all dub draft (well sort of)

1. C Mike Winther-really like Bozon but gave Winther the edge
2. LW Coda Gordon- scoer who needs to work on his skating
3a D Brett Kulak-could be here, poor man's Duncan Keith
3b LW/RW Mitch Moroz-grinder with some O upside
4. D Travis Brown-Moose Jaw Warriors, I need a t shirt form there
5. W Carter Rigby-the next Benn?

later: Makarov the Russian GK from Saskatoon maybe?
Cain Franson-overage brother of Cody, needs to fill out
Brady Brassart C/RW, Sutter like player
Jordan Martinook

Anyway little heavy at LW but went with BPA so this is how it fell

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06-22-2012, 12:14 PM
  #516
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I'd be thrilled with that draft. Winther is a bit of a reach but everything else is great value. I've made my love for Gordon in particular pretty well known. His skating is awful but it's one of the easiest things to fix, and he's one of the youngest players in the draft. Lots of potential there.

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06-22-2012, 12:16 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
I'd be thrilled with that draft. Winther is a bit of a reach but everything else is great value. I've made my love for Gordon in particular pretty well known. His skating is awful but it's one of the easiest things to fix, and he's one of the youngest players in the draft. Lots of potential there.
Skating is "sometimes" one of the easiest things to fix. For all the Winnik's that 'can' fix their skating there are just as many MacLean's who can't.

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06-22-2012, 12:17 PM
  #518
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Skating is "sometimes" one of the easiest things to fix. For all the Winnik's that 'can' fix their skating there are just as many MacLean's who can't.
I didn't mean to imply it was a given that it would improve. But every player available in the late 2nd round is going to have issues, and skating is a relatively minor one at that stage, especially given Gordon's skill set.

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06-22-2012, 12:50 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
I'd be thrilled with that draft. Winther is a bit of a reach but everything else is great value. I've made my love for Gordon in particular pretty well known. His skating is awful but it's one of the easiest things to fix, and he's one of the youngest players in the draft. Lots of potential there.
Skating is and always has been the name of the game and to assume that improvement is easy, is naive at best.


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06-22-2012, 12:52 PM
  #520
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I didn't mean to imply it was a given that it would improve. But every player available in the late 2nd round is going to have issues, and skating is a relatively minor one at that stage, especially given Gordon's skill set.

A skating issue is anything but minor, especially at this stage.

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06-22-2012, 12:55 PM
  #521
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Skating is and always has been the name of the game and to assume that improvement is a easy, is naive at best.
Again, I didn't assume it was a given, and obviously a player needs to be able to skate well to play a regular shift. But all things being equal, I'd pick the player with skating issues over the player with poor hockey sense, a bad work ethic, attitude issues, lack of physicality, unwillingness to go to the net, etc.

Every single player available when the Coyotes make their second pick will have holes like these. Poor skating is simply the least bad.

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06-22-2012, 12:59 PM
  #522
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I still maintain that we should be employing a figure skating coach to work with our prospects.

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06-22-2012, 01:01 PM
  #523
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Again, I didn't assume it was a given, and obviously a player needs to be able to skate well to play a regular shift. But all things being equal, I'd pick the player with skating issues over the player with poor hockey sense, a bad work ethic, attitude issues, lack of physicality, unwillingness to go to the net, etc.

Every single player available when the Coyotes make their second pick will have holes like these. Poor skating is simply the least bad.
There are greatly varying opinions on that. Have you watched the video from the Senators scouting meeting that's up on the main board? They were discussing there options and debating a certain player. They said his straight away speed was great but his all compass mobility wasn't great, and someone immediately said "then we aren't going to draft him". Most of the scouts grunted in agreement. They won't even consider a guy who isn't a great skater. Even forgetting about straight away speed. If he's not all compass fast, they don't even want to look at him.

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06-22-2012, 01:08 PM
  #524
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There are greatly varying opinions on that. Have you watched the video from the Senators scouting meeting that's up on the main board? They were discussing there options and debating a certain player. They said his straight away speed was great but his all compass mobility wasn't great, and someone immediately said "then we aren't going to draft him". Most of the scouts grunted in agreement. They won't even consider a guy who isn't a great skater. Even forgetting about straight away speed. If he's not all compass fast, they don't even want to look at him.
That sounds more like agility than speed to me, and obviously that's a team-based draft philosophy. You'll see the same philosophy throughout the organization. Because the Coyotes don't have many burners on their team, I don't suspect they share the same ideals, but I really have no idea.

This is just my own opinion, obviously. I also don't expect Gordon to ever become a speed demon. But if he can get his skating to replacement level, he can be a really valuable secondary scorer, somewhere between Andrew Brunette and Tomas Holmstrom.

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06-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Again, I didn't assume it was a given, and obviously a player needs to be able to skate well to play a regular shift. But all things being equal, I'd pick the player with skating issues over the player with poor hockey sense, a bad work ethic, attitude issues, lack of physicality, unwillingness to go to the net, etc.

Every single player available when the Coyotes make their second pick will have holes like these. Poor skating is simply the least bad.
Your insistence on belittling the very foundation of the game is amusing.

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