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What if Washington selected Malkin first overall, and left Ovechkin to Pittsburgh?

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Old
11-08-2011, 02:16 AM
  #51
MessierII
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan17 View Post
Meh I think Malkin > Ovechkin honestly
Me too personally I think Ovetchkin will go down as the most overrated player in history.

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Old
11-08-2011, 02:17 AM
  #52
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Theyre both draft busts

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11-08-2011, 02:23 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Ovechkin was the clear consensus. Only one scout, Dave Conte, head scout for the New Jersey Devils said he would have benn tempted to take Malkin number one if he had the pick.
before the draft i readed some inetrwiev with GM of Washington. And he said, that its not sure, they will pick Ovie. Malkin was also in their mind.

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Old
11-08-2011, 02:27 AM
  #54
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I don't even think the Pens would have played Crosby with Ovechkin. Just create two ultra-dynamic lines with Staal as your #2C.

Kunitz-Crosby-Neal
Ovechkin-Staal-Dupuis

You could line either of those lines up against any of the opposition's best lines and win the matchup. Solid defensively and offensively.

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Old
11-08-2011, 02:29 AM
  #55
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Washington would have been awesome. Just that ridiculous center depth.

Semin-Backstrom-Knuble
Johansson-Malkin-Brouwer
Chimera-Laich-Ward

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Old
11-08-2011, 02:32 AM
  #56
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I think both teams might have been better to be honest.

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Old
11-08-2011, 02:46 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by eliash View Post
Hum.. Without Malkin Pittsburgh never wins the cup.
I'm a big Ovechkin fan and I believe this. Had OV been a Penguin, most likely he'd been paired with Crosby and DET would only have to shut down one line (which they did - Crosby).

Unless Bylsma would be savvy enough to separate the two and have OV carry the 2nd line by himself (which is still feasable since OV was already awesome even before Backstrom).

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Old
11-08-2011, 03:31 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
why don't we go further and assume the pengs tanked for all three of them...
Funny considering how badly the Caps tanked to try and get OV. Matthew Yeats ring any bells?


Last edited by Ragamuffin Gunner: 11-08-2011 at 03:41 AM.
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Old
11-08-2011, 03:37 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Me too personally I think Ovetchkin will go down as the most overrated player in history.
4-time 50-goal scorers with 65 in one season are pretty difficult to overrate. He has a more impressive individual resume than Crosby at this point, so if you are rating him below Crosby then perhaps he's underrated.

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Old
11-08-2011, 03:42 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
4-time 50-goal scorers with 65 in one season are pretty difficult to overrate. He has a more impressive individual resume than Crosby at this point, so if you are rating him below Crosby then perhaps he's underrated.
Offensive stats are nice but the guys a complete floater and has never killed a penalty in his life. He doesn't have the drive to elevate his game and throw the team on his back when they need it most. Crosby's got one of those things called a cup on his resume something Ovy will never have until the caps get some real leadership.

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Old
11-08-2011, 03:55 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Offensive stats are nice but the guys a complete floater and has never killed a penalty in his life. He doesn't have the drive to elevate his game and throw the team on his back when they need it most. Crosby's got one of those things called a cup on his resume something Ovy will never have until the caps get some real leadership.
You are too funny. Crosby doesn't kill penalties and hes a first line center. Ovechkin also has better +/-.

Funny how that works huh buddy?

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11-08-2011, 03:58 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Offensive stats are nice but the guys a complete floater and has never killed a penalty in his life. He doesn't have the drive to elevate his game and throw the team on his back when they need it most. Crosby's got one of those things called a cup on his resume something Ovy will never have until the caps get some real leadership.
One cup does not define a career. Think about how many players have a cup on their resume. Think about how many have had clutch playoff performances.

These things don't really go into a player's long-term "rating" ... in the future Crosby raising the cup isn't going to be very interesting but Ovechkin scoring from his ass will ALWAYS be interesting. Whether a guy is a floater or not doesn't really matter if it translates into world-class performances that go in the recordbooks. It's hard to demand a player "elevate his game" when it's at or near the top of the league. And he sure seems to dish a lot of hits for a "floater" ...

Bottom line is Ovechkin even if he were to never play another game would go down as one of the greatest offensive players to play in the NHL. You really can't overrate that.

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Old
11-08-2011, 04:03 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
You are too funny. Crosby doesn't kill penalties and hes a first line center. Ovechkin also has better +/-.

Funny how that works huh buddy?
Yes Crosby does kill penalties. +\- is arguably the most meaningless stat in hockey. Ovechkin has never carried his team in the playoffs, never stepped up in the olympics or overcome any slight bit of adversity ever. Not getting past the 2nd round yet is an embarrassment.

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Old
11-08-2011, 04:08 AM
  #64
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Ovechkin is anything but a floater, the guy tries too hard sometimes. He cares about the game and is passionate. You can see it in his game, he cares about winning. He was not the problem in last years playoffs. Maybe because he does try so hard he tends to over think things, especially in the playoffs.

Someone so skilled sometimes is guilty of not trying to simply his game, especially for the grind of the playoffs.

Anyone that watches hockey and calls Ovechkin a floater is not a hockey fan in my opinion. They are too biased and not very knowledgeable of the actual game to make such an outrageous claim. The dude hits, he hustles to get back into the play. He plays a very Canadian type game, yet because hes not Canadian he will always get the Don Cherry treatment. He must be another European that does not care about our precious game right?

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Old
11-08-2011, 04:11 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Oilersfanneedsdrink View Post
Ovechkin is anything but a floater, the guy tries too hard sometimes. He cares about the game and is passionate. You can see it in his game, he cares about winning. He was not the problem in last years playoffs. Maybe because he does try so hard he tends to over think things, especially in the playoffs.

Someone so skilled sometimes is guilty of not trying to simply his game, especially for the grind of the playoffs.

Anyone that watches hockey and calls Ovechkin a floater is not a hockey fan in my opinion. They are too biased and not very knowledgeable of the actual game to make such an outrageous claim. The dude hits, he hustles to get back into the play. He plays a very Canadian type game, yet because hes not Canadian he will always get the Don Cherry treatment. He must be another European that does not care about our precious game right?
So your saying Ovechkin backchecks hard and doesn't skate around waiting for a breakout pass? Anyone saying that has not watched a lot of caps games. The guy is a D zone FLOATER.

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Old
11-08-2011, 04:21 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Yes Crosby does kill penalties. +\- is arguably the most meaningless stat in hockey. Ovechkin has never carried his team in the playoffs, never stepped up in the olympics or overcome any slight bit of adversity ever. Not getting past the 2nd round yet is an embarrassment.
That's funny, you bash him as floater which would make technically make his team be playing 4 on 5 while he was on the ice when his team is in their own zone, yet +/- doesn't matter?

Then you act like I'm some idiot in a sports bar that can't just look up the PK stats of Crosby.

2010-2011 SH TOI/G: 0:28
2009-2010 0:53
08-09 0:57

He's been on the down hill as far as that goes, and 0:28 was from purely not PKing at all and from getting on the ice at the tail end of the PK when the puck is cleared.

All those SH TOI/G numbers are pretty pathetic for a first line center, I'd like the name of one with less. Ugh keep forgetting Stamkos is a center haha...


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Old
11-08-2011, 04:29 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilersfanneedsdrink View Post
Ovechkin is anything but a floater, the guy tries too hard sometimes. He cares about the game and is passionate. You can see it in his game, he cares about winning. He was not the problem in last years playoffs. Maybe because he does try so hard he tends to over think things, especially in the playoffs.

Someone so skilled sometimes is guilty of not trying to simply his game, especially for the grind of the playoffs.

Anyone that watches hockey and calls Ovechkin a floater is not a hockey fan in my opinion. They are too biased and not very knowledgeable of the actual game to make such an outrageous claim. The dude hits, he hustles to get back into the play. He plays a very Canadian type game, yet because hes not Canadian he will always get the Don Cherry treatment. He must be another European that does not care about our precious game right?
you either don't understand what floating is... or you have never seen ovie away from the puck. he doesn't backcheck. he doesn't dig in the corners to help his linemates battle for loose pucks. he just waits for the outlet. being a physical player also means having the sack to go into the dirty areas and take a hit. ovie's phyisical game consists of opportunistic head-hunting, and not much else.

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11-08-2011, 04:32 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
That's funny, you bash him as floater which would make technically make his team be playing 4 on 5 while he was on the ice when his team is in their own zone, yet +/- doesn't matter?

Then you act like I'm some idiot in a sports bar that can't just look up the PK stats of Crosby.

2010-2011 SH TOI/G: 0:28
2009-2010 0:53
08-09 0:57

He's been on the down hill as far as that goes, and 0:28 was from purely not PKing at all and from getting on the ice at the tail end of the PK when the puck is cleared.

All those SH TOI/G numbers are pretty pathetic for a first line center, I'd like the name of one with less. Ugh keep forgetting Stamkos is a center haha...
Obviously he's not a premier PK guy when they have a guy like Jordan Staal but he gets some time how much time does Ovechkin average? The guy is d zone floater who cherry picks and doesn't even think about defense it's doesn't take a statistician to figure this out you just have to watch one game.

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Old
11-08-2011, 04:46 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
The bigger mind**** is the fact that had the Penguins retained that 1st overall pick in 2004 Sidney Crosby would have been an Atlanta Thrasher.
(snip)

Quote:
Now that would have had lasting implications on the league, to say the least.
Crosby would be tearing it up in Manitoba this season

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11-08-2011, 04:51 AM
  #70
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Crosby isn't killing penalties because the Penguins have a ton of guys who can do so amazingly well. If Crosby was needed to kill penalties he could, but why send your star player out to kill PKs when you have the best PK unit in the damn league without him? What is the utility of risking injury when there's Craig Adams, Jordan Staal, Matt Cooke, Pascal Dupuis, Richard Park, etc. on the roster? #1 in PK and #2 in SHG last year and we've allowed as many power play goals as we've scored short-handed goals this year... I guess we should be messing with near-perfection to appease the internet fanboys.


+/- is just...no. No. The Penguins two worst players with that stat this year, Paul Martin and Craig Adams, are two of the more defensively sound players around. It's too circumstantial a stat even when comparing players on the same time and is utterly worthless when used to compare players on different teams. Phil Kessel is a +9 and Pavel Datsyuk is a -5 for crying out loud.

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Old
11-08-2011, 04:51 AM
  #71
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Huge Crosby fan and defender as most know. With that in mind the knocks on AO above are ridiculous. Malkin or Ovechkin, any team should be equally thrilled with either. You do not need to slam one because you like the other.

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11-08-2011, 04:58 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Sour Shoes View Post
you either don't understand what floating is... or you have never seen ovie away from the puck. he doesn't backcheck. he doesn't dig in the corners to help his linemates battle for loose pucks. he just waits for the outlet. being a physical player also means having the sack to go into the dirty areas and take a hit. ovie's phyisical game consists of opportunistic head-hunting, and not much else.
Definitive proof "Ovechkin is a floater" people are trolls. Head hunting? I thought the big thing with Ovechkin haters is claiming he likes to knee people.

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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Obviously he's not a premier PK guy when they have a guy like Jordan Staal but he gets some time how much time does Ovechkin average? The guy is d zone floater who cherry picks and doesn't even think about defense it's doesn't take a statistician to figure this out you just have to watch one game.
He's not a PK guy at all and what does it matter, Ovechkin isn't a center and the Capitals have better premier PKers considering they had two guys who won 60% of faceoffs and still Backstrom had more PK time then Crosby.

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Old
11-08-2011, 05:16 AM
  #73
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The Crosby vs. Ovechkin debaters would be objective

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11-08-2011, 05:31 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Me too personally I think Ovetchkin will go down as the most overrated player in history.
You do realize he's got over 600 pts(300 of them goals) in 6 seasons. right?

6th fasted player to 500 pts or something? A couple Harts, a couple Pearsons?

So I don't know how you figure he's going to be the most overrated player in history? Particularly considering rookie season projections were topping out around 60, maybe 70 pts for anyone sane.

As for if the Pens got Ovechkin and Crosby, they're better faster...remember Malkin wasn't over until the season after Ovi and Crosby's rookie years(I'm trying to figure out why and I'm drawing a blank)

However it massivly changes their dynamic down the center. Also, since they'd have been better faster, they're not low enough to draft Staal.

Oh and if Washington was going pick the consensus #2, they'd have been morons not to try and extract a pick/prospect out of the Pens for doing it.


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11-08-2011, 07:05 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Offensive stats are nice but the guys a complete floater and has never killed a penalty in his life. He doesn't have the drive to elevate his game and throw the team on his back when they need it most. Crosby's got one of those things called a cup on his resume something Ovy will never have until the caps get some real leadership.
Not to let facts get in the way or anything, but Ovie has 4 shorthand goals to Crosby's 3. And while +/- is not everything Ovie's is much higher than Crosby's as well.

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