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#14 Kings v Sharks 11/7/11 - LOSS, POST GAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
11-08-2011, 01:13 AM
  #101
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Hindsight is 20/20 28 teams aside from us passed on Wellwood multiple times also. Forget it.

Besides....

Comparing Moreau to Wellwood...

I mean cmon, wellwood might SUCK in our system, and probably would. You can't say at all that he would have those numbers in our system. After all, Ponikarovsky was a perennial 20 goal scoerer, and Penner a 30 goal scorer. Look at them when they came here.

It's not as easy as saying "Player X has Y amount of points in W, ergo he would have X amount of points in Y2 also." That's a fundamental flaw of logic.
Exactly, and for every success story there is a bad one. Poni has already been benched for his play in Carolina a few times. POS anyone ?

Yes we know about Boyle, Parcell, Moulson ETC.

You have to find players that will produce in THIS SYSTEM. cause it's not changing anytime soon.

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11-08-2011, 01:14 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Oh I'm well aware of that, but it goes in line with the backwards thinking that exists throughout this organization. They continuously go for size over skill and don't adapt to how the game has changed.
that's true. Kozun, tafoley, loktionov.

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11-08-2011, 01:14 AM
  #103
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I don't understand why you guys still have Voynov in the minors.

Your offense could use another puckmover who can rush the puck through the neutral zone and set it up for your forwards. No?

Move JJ to the third pairing with Greene. Every year, JJ is a big minus in the +/- stat. Was hoping it'd be different this year, but it looks like the same old story.

Pairings should be.....

Mitchell-Doughty
Scuderi-Voynov
Johnson, Greene

OR

Scuderi, Doughty
Mitchell, Voynov
Johnson, Greene

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11-08-2011, 01:14 AM
  #104
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#SJSharks coach on changes made between 1st and 2nd period - 'We adjusted the forecheck...we let LA come out of their zone too easy in 1st'
It would be nice to have a coach who believed in this.

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11-08-2011, 01:15 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
After all, Ponikarovsky was a perennial 20 goal scoerer, and Penner a 30 goal scorer. Look at them when they came here.
Both big bodies. Both not very skilled. Both with a reputation for being lazy. Everything Ziggy said applies to both of those moves.

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11-08-2011, 01:15 AM
  #106
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Exactly, and for every success story there is a bad one. Poni has already been benched for his play in Carolina a few times. POS anyone ?

Yes we know about Boyle, Parcell, Moulson ETC.

You have to find players that will produce in THIS SYSTEM. cause it's not changing anytime soon.
Exactly, correlation does not imply causation. Because Wellwood works in Winnipeg does not mean he works everywhere, including us. As long as this system is run by Terry Murray, we need players that fit the system of Terry Murray.

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11-08-2011, 01:15 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
that's true. Kozun, tafoley, loktionov.
I think Loktionov and Voynov are ready for primetime. Sit Stoll and Martinez and I can guarantee the Kings will be a more effective team.

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11-08-2011, 01:16 AM
  #108
damacles1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debonair399 View Post
I don't understand why you guys still have Voynov in the minors.

Your offense could use another puckmover who can rush the puck through the neutral zone and set it up for your forwards. No?

Move JJ to the third pairing with Greene. Every year, JJ is a big minus in the +/- stat. Was hoping it'd be different this year, but it looks like the same old story.

Pairings should be.....

Mitchell-Doughty
Scuderi-Voynov
Johnson, Greene

OR

Scuderi, Doughty
Mitchell, Voynov
Johnson, Greene
Jack Johnson has been the Best player on the Ice by far(D Men). Plus minus doesn't mean Jack shi$%

Sorry bro. Drew can't even hold Jack's Jock right now.

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11-08-2011, 01:17 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Both big bodies. Both not very skilled. Both with a reputation for being lazy. Everything Ziggy said applies to both of those moves.
I am aware of this. But to say we "should have" picked up Wellwood instead of Moreau because he is playing well in Winnipeg is a logical fallacy.

You can't justify saying Wellwood would work here because he is playing well in a completely different system under a different coach with a different team.

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11-08-2011, 01:17 AM
  #110
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when they were trading them away (Cammalleri, Purcell), misusing them (Frolov) or just not offering them anything (Moulson) not many of you said $@@#. ya'll drank the kool-aid and said that those players were replaceable and 1-deminsional. now you're seeing the flaws in that line of thinking... good!!

now we just have to wait for Toffoli, Weal and Kytsin to develop because thats the only way this club is getting talented scorers and even when they're ready i expect them to be used the way Loktionov has been used.

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11-08-2011, 01:19 AM
  #111
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Putting Kopitar and Richards on the same line wouldn't help. That's two playmakers on one line and what they both need is a winger who can score on their passes. Is there anybody that can work in front of the net? I see passes going there and one whiff after another. It's like no one is ready for it.

But for the love of God, can we please switch Gagne and Penner? Maybe I'm wrong and maybe Gagne and Mike won't work like they used to but please give it a shot!







Please? PLEASE??

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11-08-2011, 01:20 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Brodie562 View Post
when they were trading them away (Cammalleri, Purcell), misusing them (Frolov) or just not offering them anything (Moulson) not many of you said $@@#. ya'll drank the kool-aid and said that those players were replaceable and 1-deminsional. now you're seeing the flaws in that line of thinking... good!!

now we just have to wait for Toffoli, Weal and Kytsin to develop because thats the only way this club is getting talented scorers and even when they're ready i expect them to be used the way Loktionov has been used.
Go crawl back in your hole Anti-Lombardite.

You were hiding all offseason. And I expect you to be hiding when the Kings start playing well again.

If we're drinking kool-aid, then I don't at all want to know what you are drinking.

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11-08-2011, 01:21 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Jack Johnson has been the Best player on the Ice by far(D Men). Plus minus doesn't mean Jack shi$%

Sorry bro. Drew can't even hold Jack's Jock right now.
This. People take one look at JJ's +/- and automatically assume he sucks.

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11-08-2011, 01:21 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I am aware of this. But to say we "should have" picked up Wellwood instead of Moreau because he is playing well in Winnipeg is a logical fallacy.

You can't justify saying Wellwood would work here because he is playing well in a completely different system under a different coach with a different team.
I don't think pointing out that this team's philosophy is backwards when it comes to players like Wellwood is any kind of fallacy. You should re-read the posts.

You are the only person who said should have signed. Everyone knows this team is not built to sign a player like Wellwood. That has been made plainly obvious the past two seasons. There is no room for anything but cycling the puck and grinding on the bottom six of this club. That is a major philosophical problem and makes building a successful team very difficult.

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11-08-2011, 01:21 AM
  #115
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I would take everyone of them back and a new coaching staff... check everyone of my posts pls

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11-08-2011, 01:23 AM
  #116
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I don't think pointing out that this team's philosophy is backwards when it comes to players like Wellwood is any kind of fallacy. You should re-read the posts.

You are the only person who said should have signed.
Okay well then let me rephrase this.

It's irrelevant for Ziggy to bring up the point total and salary of Wellwood, and compare it to Ethan Moreau.

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11-08-2011, 01:26 AM
  #117
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What would Palffy do... score. aahh so easy yet so difficult.

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11-08-2011, 01:27 AM
  #118
Jason Lewis
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Let's also keep in mind Wellwood is playing 14:37 a game,

and Moreau 11:27.

Wellwood is also playing on the Powerplay. Moreau is not.

Wellwood has been playing on a line with Andrew Ladd and Bryan Little. Moreau with any given combination of Stoll, Clifford, Lewis, Richardson.

And don't get me wrong here, I am not pro Moreau AT ALL. I think he is terrible and i'd rather see Loktionov, Kozun, or King.

But I just think it's foolish to bring up the point totals of another FA as if they were comparable at all in effort to show some form of negative correlation.

If you want to bring up a fundamental flaw in the style of players we utilize and our system like you said...by all means do that. But to do it the way Ziggy did just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

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11-08-2011, 01:29 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Okay well then let me rephrase this.

It's irrelevant for Ziggy to bring up the point total and salary of Wellwood, and compare it to Ethan Moreau.
It isn't irrelevant when somebody is stating that the organization should be run differently in the first place. When somebody is pointing out that the team goes for certain attributes over skill and that it's backwards.

That's the difference between having Loktionov and Stoll and countless other things that are up for constant discussion here.

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11-08-2011, 01:30 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Jack Johnson has been the Best player on the Ice by far(D Men). Plus minus doesn't mean Jack shi$%

Sorry bro. Drew can't even hold Jack's Jock right now.
LOL if Drew played as bad as JJ has tonite and vs buf....

JJ's "great play" has been so overrated on this board. So little is expected of him that if he doesn't screw up, its a great game no matter what.

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11-08-2011, 01:30 AM
  #121
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But for the love of God, can we please switch Gagne and Penner? Maybe I'm wrong and maybe Gagne and Mike won't work like they used to but please give it a shot!

Please? PLEASE??
simple and elegant idea. why hasn't it been tried?
at the same time, though, i really hate to punish kopitar for his stellar play by throwing an unproductive winger on his line.

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11-08-2011, 01:30 AM
  #122
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Maybe we're getting our end-of-the-season-slide out of the way now?

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11-08-2011, 01:32 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Oh I'm well aware of that, but it goes in line with the backwards thinking that exists throughout this organization. They continuously go for size over skill and don't adapt to how the game has changed.
In the top 6 right now, what player would you say is size over skill?

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11-08-2011, 01:35 AM
  #124
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I miss pre-injury Doughty.

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11-08-2011, 01:35 AM
  #125
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
It isn't irrelevant when somebody is stating that the organization should be run differently in the first place. When somebody is pointing out that the team goes for certain attributes over skill and that it's backwards.

That's the difference between having Loktionov and Stoll and countless other things that are up for constant discussion here.
His exact quote

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
This bears repeating. At the time the Kings elected to sign Ethan Moreau, Kyle Wellwood was also available. Throughout the summer, some of us were suggesting the Kings consider signing Kyle Wellwood to add some skill to the bottom six. Check out these numbers:

Ethan Moreau, 36, $600,000
GP: 13
G: 0
A: 1
+/-: -2
PIM: 12

Kyle Wellwood, 28, $700,000
GP: 14
G: 5
A: 4
+/-: 0
PIM: 2

Those numbers are IRRELEVANT to any type of conclusion he would want to draw. BECAUSE those numbers are under a different system, with a different team, with a different coach.

Would he be bringing Wellwood up to us if he had say....gone to the Rangers? and played 10 minutes a game and sucked? Probably not. Ergo the use of Wellwoods NUMBERS don't support any type of point you would be trying to make about the system.

AGAIN, if you want to argue that our system is faulty or relies on a very specific type of player that doesn't seem effective, by all means, I agree with that. There isn't enough skill. But again, to use, of all people, Kyle Wellwood, and compare his Winnipeg numbers to Ethan Moreau and his KINGS numbers...it's just dumb.


I mean for the love of god, just straight up say, like most of us do, "Wow DL hasn't opted for much skill to fill out the rest of the lineup, and it's really showing."

I think most of us can agree to that.

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