HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kuhnhackl banned 20 games

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-08-2011, 05:44 PM
  #51
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Barr View Post
That's a pretty good idea...
I'm ****ing full of them.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2011, 05:45 PM
  #52
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 70,082
vCash: 500
This is something I hope Shanahan doesn't do. The GM of this league clearly wanted to make the league safer and make a statement so that players can get the best out of their years at junior level but 20 games? That's high, 10 would suffice if you ask me. Tom doesn't strike me as the type of person to hit like that so I've no doubt he has remorse for what he's done. It'd be interesting to see what repeat offenders in that league get when doing any hit that's deemed wrong.

Shrimper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2011, 05:47 PM
  #53
RR1107
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Back in the day goalies didn't wear masks and Mike Milbury only got 8 games for racing into the stands and beating a fan with his own shoe.

As I said in the prospect thread, this is a notoriously dangerous hit. It should be removed from the game as much as possible and the way you do that is to make an example of a few people. So yeah, 20 games is a lot and that's why they gave it to him. They want to set the bar now that these slingshot hits to the head as a players is coming from behind his own net aren't "big hits".

At one time hitting from behind was just called boarding and kneeing was just called tripping. Changes like this are necessary to ensure the safety of the players and these current hits (like Kuhnhackl and Downie and Kunitz) is what happens when big, strong players can move around fast. Again, I'm just repeating myself but coming from around your own net is one of the most defenseless places on the ice because you don't have a second option in terms of where you're going. Once you start...you're going around. So players can anticipate where the defender will be and it gives them more time to react to hit them.

Think of it this way, do you ever see players get trucked like that in open ice? Hardly ever...it's way too hard to time it out and read where the opposing player will be once you've stopped accelerating. That's what the net effectively does to defenders...it removes areas that a player can evade to and also creates a blindspot for opposing players to come from unnoticed. It's dangerous but most people just see it as a "big hit".
I have a question for you, and I'm just looking for your opinion, and not criticizing your point of view (and I will also give my opinion)... If this hit happened in the same place, at the same speed but was a shoulder to shoulder hit, or a shoulder to chest hit, or a hip check, do you feel that hit has a place in the game? If not, do you feel that Kuhnhackl should instead have simply let the opposing player skate unopposed around the net, or what course of action should Kuhnhackl have taken?

The main problem with this hit is the contact to the head. If the contact was hip to hip, or shoulder to chest, or shoulder to shoulder, there should have been no suspension, not even a penalty. I will say that under the current OHL rules as I understand them, I have no problem with the suspension or its length.

All of that said, I feel that in general the player being hit has responsibility for protecting himself, and that when reviewing hits like these, those responsible for handing out discipline should consider the vulnerability that the player being hit has put themselves in.

I would propose that in cases where a player commits an illegal hit to the head on a player who puts himself in a vulnerable position, both players should receive discipline. Perhaps the NHL (and other leagues) should put together a training program to help educate players who put themselves in position to get injured that teaches them what to do to not set themselves up for injury, as well as training for players on how to avoid dirty hits, and escalate discipline for players who are repeat offenders, both in terms of giving hits and receiving them. After all, if you work in a warehouse and you aren't safe and get hurt, first you get retraining, then you get suspended, then you get fired. I would also suggest that a study be conducted to determine how much time it takes a player who is committed to a hit to react when his target makes a change to his position, if such a study hasn't already been done. If they can determine how fast it takes a goalie to react to a wrist shot and make the save, they could determine adjustment time when making a hit and come up with a baseline reaction time. I would also institute discipline for players who clearly realize a hit is coming and intentionally turn their back to the check; this is something that I am seeing more and more this season, where a player goes behind the net, sees the check coming, and intentionally turns their back to the play, and it drives me crazy. So far, I have only seen one penalty that I can recall called against the hitting player for such a check, but in my opinion, this could be called just like a trip/dive; the hitter shouldn't have finished his check, and the player getting hit shouldn't have turned around.

I guess what I am suggesting is that every hit should be reviewed independently from any other hit, and that hits should be examined from every perspective, including that of the player receiving the hit. There shouldn't be this instant reaction of "He hit him in the head, it's dirty" for every hit that contacts the head as may of these hits fall in a gray area in terms of "dirtyness" and in some cases, the player being hit, in my opinion, bears as much or more responsibility for the outcome of the hit as the player giving the hit.


Last edited by RR1107: 11-08-2011 at 06:37 PM.
RR1107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2011, 05:51 PM
  #54
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,364
vCash: 500
I think Tommy was expecting Ryan to have the puck and hitting him into the boards but Ryan missed the puck and that threw off everyone's trajectories.


Either way, still a penalty and a bit harsh on the suspension.

Ugene Malkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2011, 06:01 PM
  #55
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
I think Tommy was expecting Ryan to have the puck and hitting him into the boards but Ryan missed the puck and that threw off everyone's trajectories.


Either way, still a penalty and a bit harsh on the suspension.
I agree, he had too much speed which what really caused the problems.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2011, 06:54 PM
  #56
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR1107 View Post
I have a question for you, and I'm just looking for your opinion, and not criticizing your point of view (and I will also give my opinion)... If this hit happened in the same place, at the same speed but was a shoulder to shoulder hit, or a shoulder to chest hit, or a hip check, do you feel that hit has a place in the game? If not, do you feel that Kuhnhackl should instead have simply let the opposing player skate unopposed around the net, or what course of action should Kuhnhackl have taken?

The main problem with this hit is the contact to the head. If the contact was hip to hip, or shoulder to chest, or shoulder to shoulder, there should have been no suspension, not even a penalty. I will say that under the current OHL rules as I understand them, I have no problem with the suspension or its length.
I mean, yeah, the hit to the head was the problem. But it would have still been a penalty if it was shoulder to shoulder given the speed and extra steps Kuhnhackl took before making contact. It was Murphy direction that allowed Kuhnhackl to anticipate where he was going to be without having to slow down and that's my biggest gripe with these plays.

Head shots are dirty all on their own so if it was just that it'd be pretty bad. But you don't hit a guy that hard, going that fast without knowing what you're doing. He was trying to establish himself on a new team and wanted to score big goals and make big plays and throw big hits so everything he was doing was exaggerated. Pretty classic 18 year-old move...bigger is better at that age.

What bugs me is the lack of skill it takes to hit a defender like that. Almost anyone can do it, you just need to time it right (and too be honest kuhnhackl was a hair early). I love hip checks like crazy because of how difficult they are to connect on. You have to time it just right, be at just the right height and have your opponent going fast enough for you to dump him. That's a skill play to me. Trucking a guy at full speed who doesn't see you coming in the head with enough speed to launch yourself over him is just a cheap way to get the crowd going. It's a step above running the goalie if you ask me.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2011, 08:29 PM
  #57
Ominous Grey
Registered User
 
Ominous Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 3,109
vCash: 500
He wasn't trying to hurt him, and it was only moderately reckless IMO. No history, etc.

Overkill, but it's whatever. It shows a physical side that I didn't know he had. That strength will be helpful in the NHL.

All the best to Murphy though, you hate to see guys go down like that. It was just a bad situation for him in that "killzone" behind the net.

Ominous Grey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2011, 08:48 PM
  #58
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genetic View Post
holy crap . that was brutal, but 20 games? wow

Obvious Charge? Check
Obvious Hit to Face/Head? Check

20 seems about right.

Brutal is the right word for it. There must've been some bad blood there somewhere. That looked like revenge.

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2011, 09:06 PM
  #59
ericfg
Registered User
 
ericfg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Naples, Fl.
Country: United States
Posts: 113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
A sniper who also plays angry? Yup, he's a ****ing Penguin alright.
If the Pens future is plays and players like this I want NO part of that team. Headhunting, and make no mistake, that is what Kuhn was doing there, should not be a part of any sport. Intentionally trying to hurt or maim the opposition is bush league. Bangin' a guy off the puck is one thing, but lining up someone, who has no chance to protect themselves, is a whole different thing. And that different thing is what I'm talkin' about here; if you can't respect your opponents to the point where you want them bloody and convulsing on the ice, or your teammates who will be without your services for the next 20 games at least try and respect yourself and not wish great bodily harm on another. If you can't do that please seek psychiatric treatment because there's something wrong with you. Crap like that has no place in hockey, or any sport.
And to you neanderthals who think "ooh, what an awesome hit!!1!1": A) What do you think Mr. Lemieux would think about that crap. and B) what if that was your son or daughter on the receiving end?

ericfg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2011, 10:16 PM
  #60
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfg View Post
If the Pens future is plays and players like this I want NO part of that team. Headhunting, and make no mistake, that is what Kuhn was doing there, should not be a part of any sport. Intentionally trying to hurt or maim the opposition is bush league. Bangin' a guy off the puck is one thing, but lining up someone, who has no chance to protect themselves, is a whole different thing. And that different thing is what I'm talkin' about here; if you can't respect your opponents to the point where you want them bloody and convulsing on the ice, or your teammates who will be without your services for the next 20 games at least try and respect yourself and not wish great bodily harm on another. If you can't do that please seek psychiatric treatment because there's something wrong with you. Crap like that has no place in hockey, or any sport.
And to you neanderthals who think "ooh, what an awesome hit!!1!1": A) What do you think Mr. Lemieux would think about that crap. and B) what if that was your son or daughter on the receiving end?
Ugh...here's the other end of the spectrum. The fact that he specified "son or daughter" is particularly enraging.

For as much as I hate this hit and these kinds of hits, he wasn't headhunting or "wishing bodily harm". He's just a kid who got pumped up and was trying to get the crowd going. He made a mistake...he didn't murder anybody. Even after the suspension...it's not like people are labeling him a dirty player because he really isn't. When Cormier threw that elbow, people turned on him. When Kassian laid out to pop that guy, people turned on him. The repercussions so far for Kuhnhackl have been more about the kind of hit than the kind of player.

So yeah...feel free to be "overreact guy" and have NO part of this team then if that makes it easier for you to explain to your son and/or daughter and/or child. If you're really this sensitive you should've bailed after the Cooke hit(s)...he's done what you hate while actually wearing a Pens jersey.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2011, 11:42 PM
  #61
Chraa
Registered User
 
Chraa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,569
vCash: 500
20 games seems like a bit much.. hard to tell on that video but it doesn't look like he's got his elbows up.

Kind of similiar to the Kunitz on Timmonen hit, which was celebrated as a great hit:

Chraa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 03:49 AM
  #62
Milliardo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zürich
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 1,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfg View Post
If the Pens future is plays and players like this I want NO part of that team. Headhunting, and make no mistake, that is what Kuhn was doing there, should not be a part of any sport. Intentionally trying to hurt or maim the opposition is bush league. Bangin' a guy off the puck is one thing, but lining up someone, who has no chance to protect themselves, is a whole different thing. And that different thing is what I'm talkin' about here; if you can't respect your opponents to the point where you want them bloody and convulsing on the ice, or your teammates who will be without your services for the next 20 games at least try and respect yourself and not wish great bodily harm on another. If you can't do that please seek psychiatric treatment because there's something wrong with you. Crap like that has no place in hockey, or any sport.
And to you neanderthals who think "ooh, what an awesome hit!!1!1": A) What do you think Mr. Lemieux would think about that crap. and B) what if that was your son or daughter on the receiving end?
Exaggerate much?

Milliardo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 08:31 AM
  #63
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,755
vCash: 500
If a defenseman is coming around the back of the net with his head down, he is not "defenseless." He is dumb.

I don't like where these rules are going. More and more the onus is being taken off the puck carrier to not put himself in terrible situations to get clobbered.

Kuhn definitely had his arms up, so I have no problem with him getting punished. 20 games is just excessive, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfg View Post
If the Pens future is plays and players like this I want NO part of that team. Headhunting, and make no mistake, that is what Kuhn was doing there, should not be a part of any sport. Intentionally trying to hurt or maim the opposition is bush league. Bangin' a guy off the puck is one thing, but lining up someone, who has no chance to protect themselves, is a whole different thing. And that different thing is what I'm talkin' about here; if you can't respect your opponents to the point where you want them bloody and convulsing on the ice, or your teammates who will be without your services for the next 20 games at least try and respect yourself and not wish great bodily harm on another. If you can't do that please seek psychiatric treatment because there's something wrong with you. Crap like that has no place in hockey, or any sport.
And to you neanderthals who think "ooh, what an awesome hit!!1!1": A) What do you think Mr. Lemieux would think about that crap. and B) what if that was your son or daughter on the receiving end?
It's hockey...not tap dance. These things happen. Step back from the ledge.

The main thing that makes this hit dirty is where his arms are. He he kept them tucked, he probably wouldn't have got in trouble.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.