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Penn State Scandal (Update: NCAA Punishment handed out)

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07-23-2012, 01:40 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Clock View Post
No opportunity to develop any post-season experience, quality of teammates... that could be tough.
Jesse Palmer on ESPN put it this way:

If you are looking for the full college football experience, the chance to play in bowl games and play for championships, you transfer.

If you are looking to play on Sundays, to become an NFL player, you stay. You just spent the offseason learning a new playbook and new terminology, and going through that all over again at a different school will put you at a disadvantage. Plus on offense you'll be running a pro-style offense, which can help your chances if you do well with regards to draft stock and such.

What'll be interesting is to see what happens to the recruiting class who aren't really invested yet in Penn State.

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07-23-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Oh, to be an entitled young college student again. That's embarrassing to watch.

"Our football program protected a child molester and got punished, but I'll still be able to finish my education and be a productive member of society. WHAT A TRAVESTY!!"
Is it surprising that college kids don't see the bigger picture?

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07-23-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Look at USC.

Barkley would have been a top 5 pick this year without playing in a bowl game had he not returned for his senior year. Kalil was a top 5 pick despite not starting a bowl game.
Still going to be a tough sell to those kids, and I'm willing to bet that a lot of their good players will transfer out. It's a tough pill to swallow that sure you have that former NFL coordinator as your coach, but you will never get the chance to play in the post season. Not to mention they whiped a bunch of wins off of their record as well, and the college's reputation is pretty much shot. I can't see them recovering for a while from this. Especially with 30 total lost scholorships. It's going to be a really tough sell for a while now.

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07-23-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Jesse Palmer on ESPN put it this way:

If you are looking for the full college football experience, the chance to play in bowl games and play for championships, you transfer.

If you are looking to play on Sundays, to become an NFL player, you stay. You just spent the offseason learning a new playbook and new terminology, and going through that all over again at a different school will put you at a disadvantage. Plus on offense you'll be running a pro-style offense, which can help your chances if you do well with regards to draft stock and such.

What'll be interesting is to see what happens to the recruiting class who aren't really invested yet in Penn State.
It will be a position by position thing and whether you are an underclassman vs an upperclassman.

Matthew McGloin would be hurt by transferring right now.

But, some of the upperclassmen RBs might be in a better spot if they found a team to transfer to that needs a RB.

The same goes for a lot of positions on defense.

It will be interesting to see how this all works out.

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07-23-2012, 01:49 PM
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Still going to be a tough sell to those kids, and I'm willing to bet that a lot of their good players will transfer out. It's a tough pill to swallow that sure you have that former NFL coordinator as your coach, but you will never get the chance to play in the post season. Not to mention they whiped a bunch of wins off of their record as well, and the college's reputation is pretty much shot. I can't see them recovering for a while from this. Especially with 30 total lost scholorships. It's going to be a really tough sell for a while now.
The NFL doesn't care about vacated wins and Penn State's rep.

Penn State still plays in the Big 10 and on offense they have a coach that will put them in a system that NFL teams will want to draft guys from.

Some players will go. But, it's not like it's a slam dunk to be the right move to leave.

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07-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Is it surprising that college kids don't see the bigger picture?
I think it's more embarrassing that they didn't actively consider it when there were huge cameras staring at them when the news broke... oops.

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07-23-2012, 04:40 PM
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With football now going to be down for a couple years, and Penn State basketball, being, well, Penn State basketball,, I could see Penn State Hockey hitting the ground running. With a new arena and a fresh start, it could be just the thing for the Penn State community to rally around. (Or Penn State men's volleyball because I have a bunch of friends on the team and they perennially make the Final Four. Yeah, probably not.) With Pegula's backing, I think Penn State hockey will be successful sooner than later and could provide a real positive force for State College.

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07-23-2012, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Jesse Palmer on ESPN put it this way:

If you are looking for the full college football experience, the chance to play in bowl games and play for championships, you transfer.

If you are looking to play on Sundays, to become an NFL player, you stay. You just spent the offseason learning a new playbook and new terminology, and going through that all over again at a different school will put you at a disadvantage. Plus on offense you'll be running a pro-style offense, which can help your chances if you do well with regards to draft stock and such.

What'll be interesting is to see what happens to the recruiting class who aren't really invested yet in Penn State.
I just don't see why you can't go elsewhere to play on Sunday's. Penn State won't be getting much exposure in the near future.

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07-23-2012, 11:06 PM
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Living on the NY/PA boarder this has been too hot a topic. The Paterno apologists make me LOL. They just don't get it. Sandusky was patroling around as late as last fall. They knew, that Freeh report confirmed it. Paterno and crew even stated they cared about negative publicity. I know it's hard to punish the kids but this got way out of hands, they had to punish the team and school, just too negligent by too many powerful people. In all honesty I think they got off easy. The program will still operate, but at the sametime I know they got worse than the death penalty. I never believed those people who said Penn State was the clean big program. I always knew they were doing something too, I just never thought it would be this DISGUSTING. This was worse than cheating.

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07-23-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
I just don't see why you can't go elsewhere to play on Sunday's. Penn State won't be getting much exposure in the near future.
I think the point he was making was more about switching systems when you switch teams, which if you're an upperclassman makes it more difficult to get noticed. Plus, offensively (since he was a QB), being in a pro-style offense helps. Lots of players on sucky teams get drafted...and Penn State by virtue of being in the Big 10 WILL get exposure, given the competition they play.

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07-24-2012, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
Living on the NY/PA boarder this has been too hot a topic. The Paterno apologists make me LOL. They just don't get it. Sandusky was patroling around as late as last fall. They knew, that Freeh report confirmed it. Paterno and crew even stated they cared about negative publicity. I know it's hard to punish the kids but this got way out of hands, they had to punish the team and school, just too negligent by too many powerful people. In all honesty I think they got off easy. The program will still operate, but at the sametime I know they got worse than the death penalty. I never believed those people who said Penn State was the clean big program. I always knew they were doing something too, I just never thought it would be this DISGUSTING. This was worse than cheating.
I'm not sure I agree with the bolded...I see this likely crushing the program.

The image was already irreversibly shattered. The most crucial part about rebuilding the program on the field would be this next phase of four years. if guys transfer all over the place, which they are free to do without penalty, the team will be very, very bad. Not many recruits who aren't growing up in Aliquippa or breathing Nittany Lion football since birth are going to flock to Penn State anymore.

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07-24-2012, 12:24 AM
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Not to mention the revenue that the football team generates for the school, that in some form gets put back in to the school for other programs and groups. This has a devastating magnitude of severity for the school. I wish there was a way to penalize those who were responsible without obliterating the University, but the penalty is what it is at this point.

Make no mistake - they ****ed up. Paterno was guilty of disturbing CRIMES. I'm just pointing out the fact that this was not a light penalty for the school. Doesn't remedy those people horrendously victimized by Sandusky et al.

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07-24-2012, 12:34 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
I just don't see why you can't go elsewhere to play on Sunday's. Penn State won't be getting much exposure in the near future.
I don't think that's true at all. The majority of their games are still going to be on TV (I know their first 3 games of the season are and that's even before conference play). That's my one problem with the rulings, the Big 10 should have ruled, at the least, that they forfeit their share of the Big 10's television deal, if not remove them from television. Everyone is going to be watching them still and when teams are playing, scouts will be paying attention. The image of 90,000 people cheering for Penn State football, a program that enabled child ****, on television should be eliminated.

The clips they showed this morning of crying sophs and *****y alums and football tilted me to no end. Stop telling me about the innocent people who'd be hurt if Penn State football ended. Think about an innocent kid being ***** by his mentor. In an ideal world, the university and community should reject the football program but we know that will never happen. Penn State knew about and sheltered a child rapist. You don't get to hide behind Steve's ****ing Deli when it comes time to be punished.
/rant

Back to the players, it really is a case by case basis on whether these guys should go or stay, but the majority should leave in my opinion. As Jim Bob said, McGloin should stay at this point. If I was their RB though, I would bolt to USC immediately (even though I hate that school) and start behind Barkley. I read that he is considering them as an option.

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07-24-2012, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Not to mention the revenue that the football team generates for the school, that in some form gets put back in to the school for other programs and groups. This has a devastating magnitude of severity for the school. I wish there was a way to penalize those who were responsible without obliterating the University, but the penalty is what it is at this point.

Make no mistake - they ****ed up. Paterno was guilty of disturbing CRIMES. I'm just pointing out the fact that this was not a light penalty for the school. Doesn't remedy those people horrendously victimized by Sandusky et al.
Agreed. I think they got it just right to be honest, although as I mentioned in the post above, they should lose their television revenue as well imo.

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07-24-2012, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Clock View Post
I think it's more embarrassing that they didn't actively consider it when there were huge cameras staring at them when the news broke... oops.
And I think it's just as sad that ESPN put kids who had nothing to do with this in that situation.

If they had taken it well, it never would have been aired. I bet ESPN is disappointed that they didn't riot.

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07-24-2012, 11:12 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
I think the point he was making was more about switching systems when you switch teams, which if you're an upperclassman makes it more difficult to get noticed. Plus, offensively (since he was a QB), being in a pro-style offense helps. Lots of players on sucky teams get drafted...and Penn State by virtue of being in the Big 10 WILL get exposure, given the competition they play.
The other thing is the timing.

Most teams open camp in two weeks. And if you transfer, you get a week or so to pick up a system that the players you are competing against have been schooled in for years and at a minimum months.

This isn't baseball, or even basketball or hockey, where you can plug and play easily.

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07-24-2012, 11:18 AM
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I don't think that's true at all. The majority of their games are still going to be on TV (I know their first 3 games of the season are and that's even before conference play). That's my one problem with the rulings, the Big 10 should have ruled, at the least, that they forfeit their share of the Big 10's television deal, if not remove them from television. Everyone is going to be watching them still and when teams are playing, scouts will be paying attention. The image of 90,000 people cheering for Penn State football, a program that enabled child ****, on television should be eliminated.

The clips they showed this morning of crying sophs and *****y alums and football tilted me to no end. Stop telling me about the innocent people who'd be hurt if Penn State football ended. Think about an innocent kid being ***** by his mentor. In an ideal world, the university and community should reject the football program but we know that will never happen. Penn State knew about and sheltered a child rapist. You don't get to hide behind Steve's ****ing Deli when it comes time to be punished.
/rant

Back to the players, it really is a case by case basis on whether these guys should go or stay, but the majority should leave in my opinion. As Jim Bob said, McGloin should stay at this point. If I was their RB though, I would bolt to USC immediately (even though I hate that school) and start behind Barkley. I read that he is considering them as an option.
It's bigger than the Penn State football program.

The AD and the University President were in on this. It was much bigger than just JoePa and the football program covering this up.

Also, you have the whole issue of the State College police not moving forward with the case when the mom came to them in 1998.

Then you have the whole thing where Child Protective didn't inform 2nd Mile that Sanduski was under investigation.

This whole clusterhuck is bigger than just the PSU football program. But, too many people want to focus on JoePa and the football program and not everyone that should be getting killed is.

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07-24-2012, 11:39 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
And I think it's just as sad that ESPN put kids who had nothing to do with this in that situation.

If they had taken it well, it never would have been aired. I bet ESPN is disappointed that they didn't riot.
You raise an excellent point here.

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07-24-2012, 01:34 PM
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I don't think that's true at all. The majority of their games are still going to be on TV (I know their first 3 games of the season are and that's even before conference play). That's my one problem with the rulings, the Big 10 should have ruled, at the least, that they forfeit their share of the Big 10's television deal, if not remove them from television. Everyone is going to be watching them still and when teams are playing, scouts will be paying attention. The image of 90,000 people cheering for Penn State football, a program that enabled child ****, on television should be eliminated.

The clips they showed this morning of crying sophs and *****y alums and football tilted me to no end. Stop telling me about the innocent people who'd be hurt if Penn State football ended. Think about an innocent kid being ***** by his mentor. In an ideal world, the university and community should reject the football program but we know that will never happen. Penn State knew about and sheltered a child rapist. You don't get to hide behind Steve's ****ing Deli when it comes time to be punished.
/rant

Back to the players, it really is a case by case basis on whether these guys should go or stay, but the majority should leave in my opinion. As Jim Bob said, McGloin should stay at this point. If I was their RB though, I would bolt to USC immediately (even though I hate that school) and start behind Barkley. I read that he is considering them as an option.
I see your poin. There was a rumor about possibly a TV ban. People ere mentioning voluntary suspension also.

As for McGloin he sucks, would be shocked if he got a real look

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07-24-2012, 01:36 PM
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I'm not sure I agree with the bolded...I see this likely crushing the program.

The image was already irreversibly shattered. The most crucial part about rebuilding the program on the field would be this next phase of four years. if guys transfer all over the place, which they are free to do without penalty, the team will be very, very bad. Not many recruits who aren't growing up in Aliquippa or breathing Nittany Lion football since birth are going to flock to Penn State anymore.
True, although most of that kind before were guys whos fathers had played for Joe. I thought losing Joe alone would hurt this.

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07-24-2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
It's bigger than the Penn State football program.

The AD and the University President were in on this. It was much bigger than just JoePa and the football program covering this up.

Also, you have the whole issue of the State College police not moving forward with the case when the mom came to them in 1998.

Then you have the whole thing where Child Protective didn't inform 2nd Mile that Sanduski was under investigation.

This whole clusterhuck is bigger than just the PSU football program. But, too many people want to focus on JoePa and the football program and not everyone that should be getting killed is.
Agreed down the line, and that gets to my point about the television coverage. They're focusing on this from the wrong perspective as you stated, and not just ESPN, all of the major news networks.

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07-24-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
I just don't see why you can't go elsewhere to play on Sunday's. Penn State won't be getting much exposure in the near future.
I sure NFL scouts will remember how to get to Happy Valley.

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07-24-2012, 06:24 PM
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Is it surprising that college kids don't see the bigger picture?
Less surprising at this point than the older generation smugly dismissing the opinions of the younger.

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07-24-2012, 07:48 PM
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Less surprising at this point than the older generation smugly dismissing the opinions of the younger.
That's the way the world works. Older generations say "kids these days." In some ways, though, the tension is justified.

Older generations are often wedded to opinions as if they were facts. If they haven't learned to think critically by a certain point in their life, they usually never do, and substitute their opinions, however unjustified, for facts.

Younger generations simply don't have the experience necessary to see the larger picture. Not their fault... it comes with time. How many non-tech companies do you see run by youth? Not a whole lot. Wisdom is acquired, and chances are, older folks have more.

The NCAA and leaders at Penn State may be wedded to their ways. And the students may not understand all the factors the leadership considered.

It's the way of the world.

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07-24-2012, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I'm not sure I agree with the bolded...I see this likely crushing the program.

The image was already irreversibly shattered. The most crucial part about rebuilding the program on the field would be this next phase of four years. if guys transfer all over the place, which they are free to do without penalty, the team will be very, very bad. Not many recruits who aren't growing up in Aliquippa or breathing Nittany Lion football since birth are going to flock to Penn State anymore.
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Not to mention the revenue that the football team generates for the school, that in some form gets put back in to the school for other programs and groups. This has a devastating magnitude of severity for the school. I wish there was a way to penalize those who were responsible without obliterating the University, but the penalty is what it is at this point.

Make no mistake - they ****ed up. Paterno was guilty of disturbing CRIMES. I'm just pointing out the fact that this was not a light penalty for the school. Doesn't remedy those people horrendously victimized by Sandusky et al.
I think the NCAA acted appropriately. I don't think Emmert had much of a choice. And the critics tears apart Emmert no matter what he does, anyway. The three main options I saw for him were:

1.) Take a legalistic point of view, acknowledging that Penn State's issues are outside the ability of the NCAA to act. And that there were no precedents.

The problem here is the NCAA gets accused of doing nothing. Doing nothing is the worst of all options in this case.

2.) Apply sanctions in accordance with what the NCAA is allowed to do. Emmert attempts to spare the innocents with this option. Something like the fine plus the bowl ineligibility.

The problem here is the NCAA gets accused of doing too little.

3.) Hammer Penn State.

The problem here is legalistic and in relation to the intended target. The NCAA gets accused of overstepping its bounds, and effecting innocents.

The NCAA and Emmert adopted choice three. It's the least critical. Or, they avoid the emotional argument of taking no or not enough action in relation to the victims. Choice three can't be critiqued for doing too little in light of the crimes. Sure, the NCAA is going to get flooded with legalistic critiques for doign too much, overstepping authority, and punishing innocents. That all goes away easy. Choice three also maintains the integrity and monetary interests of the NCAA.

With that in mind, Emmert had the choice to do even more. Taking more action was justified with the NCAA's interests in mind. I personally thought Emmert should have shut Penn State football down for a year, then applied the four years of sanctions.

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