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Penn State Scandal (Update: NCAA Punishment handed out)

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:25 AM
  #126
Beerz
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
And the thing is it's not like he needed to travel halfway across the world to do it. He didn't need to make some grand effort.

All he had to do was tell the police. One phone call. That's it.

Such a simple thing that would have made a huge (and I mean huge) difference in the lives of who knows how many kids. Yet he chose not to something that was completely within his power and ability to do.

Yeah... and it's easy to look at it that way in hindsight ...

Just like somebody could of took their friends keys away from them or drove them home themselves before their friend drove drunk and slammed into a family of 6. Everyone has regrets in life..wishing they made better decisions.

When they can show me that he was actively covering up (meaning .. telling people.. "Dont you dare say a word about this" ect ect) I'll roast the guy myself... until then... I say losing his job is punishment enough.

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11-11-2011, 01:28 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Obviously you haven't read my posts. I never stated what he did was morally acceptable. Not once. And if one of the victims was someone I knew or in my family..I fully admit I would be outraged..However ..since I have no personal feelings in this situation it allows me to think rationally about it with no emotions pushing me over the edge before ALL the facts are out. There may be more information that comes out that will fully support all this hate...and on the flipside there may be info that comes out that shows Paterno just made a bad choice.

It's easy for anonymous internet posters, bloggers, twitter freaks, journalist and pundits to sit there and judge a person when their lives are safely hidden behind a computer screen or TV Camera...but the fact is...99.9% of people have never been placed in that type of situation. I doubt it would be easy for anyone to turn in a family member or a friend they've known for decades....he did that.... He f'd up for not taking it further..and admits that..

Everything else is speculation.
That's what we're trying to say. There is more than enough for all this hate to be justified now.

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Yeah... and it's easy to look at it that way in hindsight ...

Just like somebody could of took their friends keys away from them or drove them home themselves before their friend drove drunk and slammed into a family of 6. Everyone has regrets in life..wishing they made better decisions.

When they can show me that he was actively covering up (meaning .. telling people.. "Dont you dare say a word about this" ect ect) I'll roast the guy myself... until then... I say losing his job is punishment enough.
Like I said, it doesn't appear to actively covered it up, but passively. You don't have to necessary make threats to cover something up.

Also, your comparison is extremely poor. Let's try to restructure it to make more sense.

So you have this guy that works for you. He's a friend. Well respected.

You are informed of allegations that this person drove home drunk and hit a car.. a person.. whatever, and drove off.

The police investigate and ultimate do not charge them.

You ultimately tell them they will not get a promotion and they retire. You, however, still let him have FULL access to the workplace, including having alcohol on their persons.

A few years later, a coworker under you comes directly to you and tells you they recently witnessed that same person drink & drive, ultimately hitting another car or person, and driving off. They did this by getting drunk at your workplace.

You tell your boss. You have some meetings and nothing else really comes of it. Not your responsibility, so you hand it off and don't worry about it.

Fast forward another 5-6 years. There are more allegations of drunk driving hit & runs. A grand jury investigation is started.

You still let this person full access to your workplace.


----

I could go on, but you get the point.

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11-11-2011, 02:09 AM
  #128
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I think I got brain damage from reading this article. Great job Bucky, you putz.



Quote:
Terry Pegula has the right to free speech, and the right to remain silent, like anyone else in this country. Broken down simply, he's a successful businessman who donated $88 million to Penn State for a new arena and a Division I hockey program. He's a proud alumnus and football fan intent on giving back to the university.

And that's all, really.

He's not obligated to speak up about Penn State's decision to fire legendary football coach Joe Paterno and university president Graham Spanier any more than he's compelled to discuss his relationship with athletic director Tim Curley, one of two administrators charged with perjury in the child-molestation case.

Keeping quiet is certainly within Pegula's rights.

But is it right?

Pegula has been a leader in our community since he purchased the Sabres last February and began changing the culture in Buffalo. He instilled a level of confidence and hope and credibility that had been missing. He has been clear about his passion and his commitment to doing things the right way.

He's also the father of five. His older son played hockey, so he knows the importance of parents trusting others with children. Pegula has been a man of integrity since he arrived. By all accounts over the past year or so, he's a good person from a good family with the best intentions. And that has not changed.
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/co...icle628037.ece


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11-11-2011, 04:06 AM
  #129
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I understand Bucky is looking to constantly stir things up but what does he expect from Pegula? He owns the sabres, and is not In a position where he has to go into detail how he feels about it.. Yes he donated 88 million to fund a hockey program and is also an alumni but other than that, him speaking isn't making news anywhere else besides buffalo.. He said what he needed to say, he's not taking back his donation, that's all that needs to be said.

As far as PSU goes, the one thing that baffles me is how McQueary still has a job on the coaching staff. He is in the same boat as Paterno as in he reported to the people higher up than him, and didn't follow through with anything more til now. I am in no means saying Paterno shouldn't have lost his job, but how does McQueary still have his. I also understand Paterno has more power and could have got thing done easier persay compared to a grad assistant in McQueary, but if you witness this sort of activity and it bothers you that much would'nt you think he would have went to the police and have this taken care of from the get go when he realized the higher ups were not acting accordingly. I believe he is at more fault then Paterno, yet still has a job

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11-11-2011, 04:53 AM
  #130
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So the football program screws up and T-Pegs is going to punish the hockey program? That makes total sense.

I hope so. Any affiliation with a UNIVERSITY, not just a football program, that covers up child abuse is a black eye. Of course he can't redact his donations but he can certainly distance himself from this point forward.

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11-11-2011, 07:31 AM
  #131
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You're right.... At the Wall Street Protests ... ***** actually occur and are handled "internally".
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
I think you're a riot..lol.... Some of you either assume too much or like to put words in peoples mouth to suit your argument. Please show me where i stated I didn't believe their was a ****? ... I didn't. And you might want to re-read my posts... I'm not defending anyone .. I am merely stating the vast majority of the hate is directed at the wrong person....while fully acknowledging Paterno should have done more. But i forgot... HF Posters lead a perfect life with no mistakes or regrets..

PS: And I'm glad you don't believe there have been ***** at OWS because your best friend told you...
By "actually occur," I assume you mean a **** did not actually occur at PS, but that it does occur routinely at OWS. What else could you possibly mean?

But keep on defending the protectors of pedophiles and bashing legitimate populist movements. NAMBLA and Glenn Beck would be proud.

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11-11-2011, 07:50 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Mr Twinkie View Post
As far as PSU goes, the one thing that baffles me is how McQueary still has a job on the coaching staff. He is in the same boat as Paterno as in he reported to the people higher up than him, and didn't follow through with anything more til now. I am in no means saying Paterno shouldn't have lost his job, but how does McQueary still have his. I also understand Paterno has more power and could have got thing done easier persay compared to a grad assistant in McQueary, but if you witness this sort of activity and it bothers you that much would'nt you think he would have went to the police and have this taken care of from the get go when he realized the higher ups were not acting accordingly. I believe he is at more fault then Paterno, yet still has a job
At a minimum, McQueary should be placed on administrative leave while they investigate what his role was in all of this and whether he should remain employed by the University.

McQueary witnessed a felony on the Penn State campus and failed to promptly notify either campus safety or the local police.

If that isn't a fire-able offense, then I don't know what is.

I would hope that if I were in the same situation that I would grab that little kid, get him to a safe place, call the cops, and then hand the kid over to them or Child Protective Services.

The fact that he walked away from what he saw is one of the worst things I've heard of in this whole mess outside of the crimes that Sandusky "allegedly" committed.

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11-11-2011, 08:06 AM
  #133
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I doubt it would be easy for anyone to turn in a family member or a friend they've known for decades....he did that.... He f'd up for not taking it further..and admits that..
Oh, absolutely. I'm sure it was a difficult situation for Paterno, who had to face the fact that his colleague and probably friend for 30 years or whatever it was doing such a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Twinkie View Post
As far as PSU goes, the one thing that baffles me is how McQueary still has a job on the coaching staff. He is in the same boat as Paterno as in he reported to the people higher up than him, and didn't follow through with anything more til now. I am in no means saying Paterno shouldn't have lost his job, but how does McQueary still have his. I also understand Paterno has more power and could have got thing done easier persay compared to a grad assistant in McQueary, but if you witness this sort of activity and it bothers you that much would'nt you think he would have went to the police and have this taken care of from the get go when he realized the higher ups were not acting accordingly. I believe he is at more fault then Paterno, yet still has a job
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I would hope that if I were in the same situation that I would grab that little kid, get him to a safe place, call the cops, and then hand the kid over to them or Child Protective Services.

The fact that he walked away from what he saw is one of the worst things I've heard of in this whole mess outside of the crimes that Sandusky "allegedly" committed.
Yeah. I don't understand how he could have just run away. Well, I understand it. Sandusky's a big fish there. Probably an intimidating guy. But at that point, you'd hope that he'd be outraged and concerned enough about the poor boy to do something about it.

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11-11-2011, 08:11 AM
  #134
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click on red box ^
My thoughts, posted in the OT thread. I'll likely stay quiet on this topic as events unfold.

----

Moderator note: I have copied b_g's comments in the other thread into this post, since moving the original post to this thread made it get buried.

I commented in the PSU / Pegula thread, but I'll repeat and expand here. Then I'll probably stay silent on it.

1. I read the grand jury statement Tuesday overnight.

2. It doesn't take much connecting of the dots to infer / believe there is a lot more complicity and interwoven cover-up and wrong-doing than just the point-by-point facts / allegations.

Specifically:

a.) Individuals in the PSU hierarchy (all the names identified with PSU and 2nd mile, etc., and likely others in the PSU hierarchy), by virtue of either their title/association with PSU, and/or their actual authority, have access to similar high-authority individuals in the state and county legal and political systems.

b.) This access and these relationships likely run from minor (e.g., golf outings, fundraising dinners, honors banquets, minor business relationships, etc.) to major (e.g, deep business relationships - i.e., lead legal counsel for PSU has same function with 2nd mile).

c.) This interwoveness likely includes relationships in both the PSU Campus and State Police depts., District attorney office, PSU board of directors, governors office - if not now, at least at some point in time. (Note the Penna. Gov. is a default member of the PSU board of directors).

d.) The timing of these events absolutely reeks of complicit actions and interwoveness.
e.g., the 1999 Sandusky retirement after the 1998 investigation,
e.g., PSU football in a bit of a lull in mid-2000s, concurrent with timeframe of Centre County asst. DA Gricar's disappearance - Folks, a murder likely occurred as a result of this whole sordid affair.
e.g., Story not released and Commonwealth action not taken until after victory #409.
etc.,

3) I have no firm opinion on Paterno's extent of guilt. In reality, it may lie anywhere between "In hindsight, I wish I had done more" (paraphrasing his words) to a clear understanding of the nature, extent, and duration of Sandusky's acts over many years, and/or knowledge of the interwoveness and machinations by several others in authority to "at best" avoid dealing with the issue swiftly, decisively, and legally, or at worst, implement and preserve an elaborate coverup scheme, perhaps with a murder involved. As the saying goes, "the truth is likely somewhere in the middle", and I believe it is.

4) McQueary should be relieved of duties on two grounds. 1) his continued presence on the football staff is a monstrous distraction and doesn't pass the red-face test. 2) Hasn't he too allegedly committed a crime? The grand jury found his testimony to be highly credible. If he truly was an eyewitness, as he alleges, I'd be REALLY CURIOUS what the Pa. statutes were at that time. As a grad student he was an employee of the State, so I assume he was also bound to report what he saw to legal authorities. I'll grant McQueary may not have known his obligations (as the heirarchy surely knew, yet chose not to act correctly / fully), but I highly doubt it. From my personal experience as a grad student employee of NYS, as well as a University Resident Assistant, I was extremely aware of my obligation to report to Student Affairs **** like that (granted, more than a decade before McQueary, and in NYS, not PA). But honestly, re: McQueary - in 2002, if you don't know that anal sex with a boy is illegal and you should go to the cops, or at least call an anonymous 1-800 hotline if you think the cops will cover it up, then I sure as **** don't think you're bright enough to play football, let alone coach it. From what I've read, I already know you're a pathetic coward.

5) I remind everyone that, tragically, both sexual abuse, and sexual abuse of minors, occurs daily, and is usually perpetrated by family / friends well-known and trusted by victims. IMO, the PSU / 2nd mile stuff gets the press and airtime because it's a large institution and hierarchical. A similar reason, again IMO, incidents in the Catholic Church and/or Boy Scouts, etc., get the press and airtime, (despite, for example, several independent factual studies show abuse of minors by Catholic priests is actually a lower frequency rate than for clergy in other denominations). Pillory of large, hierarchical, sometimes "faceless" institutions (the Klan, Communists, Nazis, the Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, "liberals", "conservatives", etc.,) promotes a "herd mentality" which shifts focus from our local neighborhood, schools, civic organizations, etc., to the heirarchal organizations. Folks, the risks and crimes are everywhere.

6) In my volunteer work, I am required by 2 separate organizations to receive "safe environment" training on how to establish and maintain an appropriate environment for youth activities, prevent at-risk situations / environments from occurring, and how/what/when to inform CPS / law enforcement of suspected abuse. The training is eye opening, and I encourage you to take it if offered at a volunteer organization, even if you are not personally required.

7) The PSU story made me recall the Swift Current Broncos story (Junior hockey), of which Lindy Ruff and family were close to both the youth abuse and bus accident tragedies.


Last edited by vcv: 11-11-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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11-11-2011, 08:20 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
My thoughts, posted in the OT thread. I'll likely stay quiet on this topic as events unfold.
Very insightful post. Pretty much mirrors my own opinions -- the DA's mystery disappearance seems particularly troubling.

I have a very strong feeling a lot more will be coming out about all of this.

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11-11-2011, 08:29 AM
  #136
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Don't forget to get your hands on a copy of: "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story."

You can't make this **** up, folks.

The Second Mile charity was started in 1977.

Sandusky has 6 adopted kids, and routinely took in foster children.

U.S. Senator Rick Santorum honored Sandusky with a “Congressional Angels in Adoption” award in 2002 -- Man on Dog honors Man on Boy.

etc, etc.

The list of victims will be huge.

To act like Paterno had no inkling what Sandusky was up to all these years is just plain idiotic.

Jail for everybody, I say.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall during Sandusky's first week in prison.

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11-11-2011, 08:38 AM
  #137
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I guess the TBN/Pegula honeymoon is over. That didn't take long before those clowns started getting all over him about something...something that there is next to zero proof he has any connection to.

I get how he "should" make a comment standing up for the victims, his donation, and hoping this will end up with the proper justice levied on all. But even after they got Terry's comment, Bucky writes that ****ing article because they can't just let it go.

Look you idiots (Harrington too): you got your story out of a non-story. You got Pegula to make his comments, but not to you (lol). ****ing drop it already. Its over. Instead of writing another dumbass article, write one about how sick this entire situation is and focus on how scarred the victims are or something. Anything but Pegula - he should NOT be the focus of this by the local media.

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11-11-2011, 08:54 AM
  #138
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Bucky has written a lot of trash over the years. That was by FAR the worst.

Those guys do their best to make something out of nothing. It's embarrassing.

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11-11-2011, 09:07 AM
  #139
vcv
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FYI, I moved a bunch of posts from the last page of the OT thread to here.

I also deleted posts related to the plagiarism discussion. It's against the site rules to post full articles, so don't do that. Also, please let moderators handle those things. If you think something is against site rules, report it. Not all reports will result in infractions. Sometimes we will just edit/delete as appropriate, such as in this case.

Thanks.


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11-11-2011, 09:25 AM
  #140
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This Bucky article is really terrible. It screams, I'm an antsy journalist who needs a story and I'll go so far as to drag a good man into the mud for something he had nothing to do with because he won't give me one.

Bucky owes Pegula an apology. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pegula blacklist Bucky in the future - have another meeting with the News? Don't invite that guy. He's the guy who wrote an article tying me to a child **** scandal because I didn't have a tear-filled presser about it.

**** you, Bucky.

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11-11-2011, 09:26 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
This Bucky article is really terrible. It screams, I'm an antsy journalist who needs a story and I'll go so far as to drag a good man into the mud for something he had nothing to do with because he won't give me one.

Bucky owes Pegula an apology. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pegula blacklist Bucky in the future - have another meeting with the News? Don't invite that guy. He's the guy who wrote an article tying me to a child **** scandal because I didn't have a tear-filled presser about it.

**** you, Bucky.
It's basically an op-ed piece from a guy whose opinion is the last I'd seek on almost anything, and that's including sports.

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11-11-2011, 09:32 AM
  #142
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The only opinion I'd want from Bucky Gleason on is buffet recommendations. That seems to be right in his wheelhouse.

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11-11-2011, 09:39 AM
  #143
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Whether anyone wants to hear it or not, Terry Pegula is a major power broker when it comes to Penn State football. He wanted to be a king-maker when now interim PSU football head Tom Bradley was looking to leave the university earlier this year and become a head coach elsewhere. Pegula called the president of Pitt and people at Temple to recommend Bradley. Pegula's billions made university presidents and boards take notice.

No, haseoke, this doesn't "tie" Terry to the scandal. It just gives people more information and context. As Bucky suggests, it would be a fair question to ask Terry about Jerry Sandusky. Terry is a judge of people and felt comfortable going to bat for Bradley. How familiar is Pegula with the rest of the staff, past and present?


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11-11-2011, 09:44 AM
  #144
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Oof, i read the bucky article this morning and I came here to post on how awful the article is and how unprofessional Bucky Gleason is. Most of you guys already hit on those points more thoroughly and eloquently than I can, so i'll just say that I can't believe that piece of "journalism" was published. What a joke...

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11-11-2011, 09:49 AM
  #145
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It just gives people more information and context.
It didn't provide me with either. It sounded like Bucky wanted to hear more from Pegula both personally and professionally, so he wrote an article about it. The story here is that there is no story. This isn't reporting, this is a reaction to a statement.

Besides, what kind of leadership opportunity could he provide that's not already there? The current Governor is actually the former attorney general who initiated the current investigation and is now leading the board of trustees in cleaning up everything:

From the New York Times:

Quote:
Mr. Corbett, as state attorney general, had begun an investigation in 2009 into allegations that a former Penn State assistant football coach had abused young boys, and that university officials might have covered up the scandal. He had convened a grand jury, and his prosecutors had taken testimony. But when he ran for governor, and even after he took office, he was obligated to keep the investigation secret, even as he saw the university officials at the center of the investigation doing little to address the substance of the inquiry.
Quote:
That day came last Friday, when the charges became public against the former coach, Jerry Sandusky, and two senior university officials. Suddenly, though, Mr. Corbett faced a new challenge: as governor, he was effectively a member of Penn State’s board of trustees, the body that would decide how to handle the crisis, when to act and who, if anyone, to fire. But he also knew information about the investigation that he could not share with anyone, including other trustees, and was still bound by rules prohibiting prosecutors from making possibly prejudicial statements.

Over the next four days, then, Mr. Corbett, a Republican, kept his public statements spare, calling on trustees to act quickly and aggressively. But privately, he worked to move the board in what he believed was the right direction. He called multiple members, including Vice Chairman John P. Surma, the chief executive of U.S. Steel, and told them that the country was watching, that a change at the top was needed and that the issue was about more than a football program, according to a person with knowledge of his efforts.

Mr. Corbett eventually decided to send a public signal: he formally announced he would attend the scheduled meeting of the trustees on Friday, something he had never done before.
Abuse Inquiry Set Tricky Path for a Governor

Pegula is not on the board of trustees. I'm sure he's handling his end of things. Does Bucky want him to come out and publicly condemn the entire institution before anything goes to trial? Or maybe condemn the alleged or anyone else involved? Coming from a man of his position, that could be seen as libel. Pegula acted appropriately.


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11-11-2011, 10:00 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
Whether anyone wants to hear it or not, Terry Pegula is a major power broker when it comes to Penn State football. He wanted to be a king-maker when now interim PSU football head Tom Bradley was looking to leave the university earlier this year and become a head coach elsewhere. Pegula called the president of Pitt and people at Temple to recommend Bradley. Pegula's billions made university presidents and boards take notice.

No, haseoke, this doesn't "tie" Terry to the scandal. It just gives people more information and context. As Bucky suggests, it would be a fair question to ask Terry about Jerry Sandusky. Terry is a judge of people and felt comfortable going to bat for Bradley. How familiar is Pegula with the rest of the staff, past and present?
Seemed more like a little kid kicking and screaming "i want i want i want!". The want being Pegula's feelings poured out for everyone to see.

Pegula released his statement. MOVE ON BUCKY.

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11-11-2011, 10:00 AM
  #147
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It didn't provide me with either. It sounded like Bucky wanted to hear more from Pegula both personally and professionally, so he wrote an article about it. The story here is that there is no story. This isn't reporting, this is a reaction to a statement.
I was referring to my information about Terry's role in PSU football. I didn't want to be accused of "tying" Terry to anything.

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11-11-2011, 10:05 AM
  #148
jamers
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I was referring to my information about Terry's role in PSU football. I didn't want to be accused of "tying" Terry to anything.
Gotcha, thought you were referring to Bucky's article.

EDIT: And I apologize to anyone if I get too heated in this thread at times. It's a touchy subject for me as a family member was a victim of sexual abuse. It's a tragic thing.


Last edited by jamers: 11-11-2011 at 10:15 AM.
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11-11-2011, 10:18 AM
  #149
ADoubleD
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
The only reason this story is big is because football occupies such a ridiculously large, supersized position in our society. Horrific **** like this happens all the time in schools across the country, its probably happening right now near a school near you, but now since it indirectly involves a football god like Paterno it's headline news, even deserving it's own thread on a hockey forum. Not bashing the OP, just saying -- as somebody who years ago gave up on football as a watchable sport -- people need to calm the **** down about this pathetically sad, but ultimately insignificant, tragedy.
I'm sorry but I wouldn't exactly call this insignificant. To me it's not about this specific incident its about the fact that people would actually cover up something like this. It's not like something like this hasn't happened before cough Catholic Church cough. There's a serious problem in our culture when people are more worried about protecting their image than doing what's right. What's just as sad are the people defending Paterno, and the reaction students at Penn State had to his firing. People are so out of touch with reality if they're more concerned with the fact that Joe Pa's legacy is tarnished then they are with the fact that child **** was covered up, and by being covered up the ******* doing it was allowed to keep doing it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it really bothers me how out of whack some people's priorities are.


Last edited by ADoubleD: 11-11-2011 at 10:29 AM.
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11-11-2011, 10:31 AM
  #150
slip
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Originally Posted by ADoubleD View Post
I'm sorry but this is extremely ignorant. I wouldn't exactly call this insignificant. To me it's not about this specific incident its about the fact that people would actually cover up something like this. It's not like something like this hasn't happened before cough Catholic Church cough. There's a serious problem in our culture when people are more worried about protecting their image than doing what's right. What's just as sad are the people defending Paterno, and the reaction students at Penn State had to his firing. People are so out of touch with reality if they're more concerned with the fact that Joe Pa's legacy is tarnished then they are with the fact that child **** was covered up, and by being covered up the ******* doing it was allowed to keep doing it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it really bothers me how out of whack some people's priorities are.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. It's insignificant in the context that child abuse is very widespread and doesn't get nearly the attention it truly deserves. The fact that some perv at some ******** college football program perpetrated the crime is just one data point in sea of millions of data points.

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