I think you have to take BPA. If Forsberg is there when were on the clock and he has the chance to be a 80-90 point foward with JT (Very well could be), you can't pass up on that oppurtunity. If he's not there then I think we look defense.
I think you have to take BPA. If Forsberg is there when were on the clock and he has the chance to be a 80-90 point foward with JT (Very well could be), you can't pass up on that oppurtunity. If he's not there then I think we look defense.
Agreed...
First, we have some forward prospects, but it is highly doubtful everyone pans out. I doubt Strome and Nino both end up as top-line forwards, the Krill's and Okposo on a 2nd line etc.
Second, if you think a forward is the best player, draft him, let him develop, and, if all of our forwards do pan out you will be able to move one for a dman.
Picking this early, you have to get a player you think can be a true impact player. If you think a forward can be great, while the best dman will top out at good, you grab the forward.
Not to mention that some people feel dmen are harder to project and therefore more less likely to pan out. It certainly seems that way based on results....
Looking at top-10 picked dmen:
2004: C Barker (2), Smid (9), Valabik (10)
2005: J Johnson (3), Brian Lee (9)
2006: E Johnson (1)
2007: Hickey (4), Alzner (5), Ellerby (10)
2008: Doughty (2), Bogosian (3), Pietrangelo (4), Schenn (5)
I left off Bourdon for obvious reasons, but there not many impact players on this list. Doughty, Pietrangelo, Bogosian Schenn, Alzner, EJ, JJ, Smid are the only ones who play top-4 minutes, let alone on the top pair.
Looking at top-10 picked dmen:
2004: C Barker (2), Smid (9), Valabik (10)
2005: J Johnson (3), Brian Lee (9)
2006: E Johnson (1)
2007: Hickey (4), Alzner (5), Ellerby (10)
2008: Doughty (2), Bogosian (3), Pietrangelo (4), Schenn (5)
I left off Bourdon for obvious reasons, but there not many impact players on this list. Doughty, Pietrangelo, Bogosian Schenn, Alzner, EJ, JJ, Smid are the only ones who play top-4 minutes, let alone on the top pair.
Which makes 8 of 13 of those defensemen picked are top 4 guys already and have potential for more still. That's pretty damn good.
There's a lot of talk about taking "the best player available", but that becomes a little bit subjective. The "best player" doesn't always mean the "most skilled". When a team like the Islanders is drafting, they have to take into consideration the type of team that they're trying to build. A good case could be made for Forsberg, just like a good case could be made for any of the defensemen, like Dumba, Murray, or Trouba.
My own opinion is that the Islanders should be looking to find Tavares a winger AND bring in on-ice and off-ice assertiveness, like a potential captain. Now, there's no doubt in my mind, that John Tavares will be the Islanders' captain, as well he should be. But it's good to have as many guys who could be captain as possible. You don't want a guy whose feelings will be hurt if they aren't captain, but you want guys who could be captain.
I've made a case for Forsberg, and that's self-explanatory, as he'd be a real good winger for Tavares, and I stand by that. But I want to make a case for Dumba. This guy is a leader. He skates well and hits hard. I don't want to go to the Denis Potvin, because Potvin's a Hall Of Famer and an Islander legend. But I will go to Dumba, as I've said before, being a combination of Bryan Berard and Darius Kasparaitis. He's also supposed to be a real good leader. I'm not complaining if we take Dumba.
Ryan Murray is another guy who can skate smoothly and really handle the physical game. He's got a good shot, good offensive awareness, and is real good in his own zone. I regret not being able to watch the WJC. Time Warner Cable Dallas does not offer the NHL Network.
Jacob Trouba is one who I've heard a lot about, but know very little about.
Frankly, I don't want the first pick this year. Yakupov does not turn me on. I have no doubt that he is ridiculously skilled, but I have to go back to the '94 Stanley Cup Final, where it was Pavel Bure and everybody else (throw Kirk MacLean in there, too. He was incredible) Vs. Mark Messier, Brian Leetch, Adam Graves, Glen Anderson, Mike Richter, Sergei Zubov, and numerous quality role players. Pavel Bure could not pick these guys apart. However, I will site you that the Islanders have a dynamic John Tavares (who I'm starting to see some semblance to Messier in), which with all due respect to Trevor Linden and even Cliff Ronning, the Canucks did not have.
The Islanders should eventually be a good team. The kids are young and inexperienced, what really hurts is that their coaches haven't been able to compensate for that, as the coaches are also inexperienced.
As for the draft, whether it's Forsberg, Dumba, Murray, or Trouba (based on what I've heard of him), even if others are on the board, I won't be upset. However, if they select Maury Woddaboogle from New Zealand, I'll be pretty upset.
Frankly, I don't want the first pick this year. Yakupov does not turn me on. I have no doubt that he is ridiculously skilled, but I have to go back to the '94 Stanley Cup Final, where it was Pavel Bure and everybody else (throw Kirk MacLean in there, too. He was incredible) Vs. Mark Messier, Brian Leetch, Adam Graves, Glen Anderson, Mike Richter, Sergei Zubov, and numerous quality role players. Pavel Bure could not pick these guys apart. However, I will site you that the Islanders have a dynamic John Tavares (who I'm starting to see some semblance to Messier in), which with all due respect to Trevor Linden and even Cliff Ronning, the Canucks did not have.
Huh?
Are you saying that you don't want Yakupov because Bure, a different player, could only take his team to the 7th game of the Finals by himself? What does that have to do with anything? Lets never draft a highly skilled Russian because Bure didn't win a Cup (on a team he carried that far)?
Are you saying that you don't want Yakupov because Bure, a different player, could only take his team to the 7th game of the Finals by himself? What does that have to do with anything? Lets never draft a highly skilled Russian because Bure didn't win a Cup (on a team he carried that far)?
That sounds like typical Long Island, narcissistic, word twisting to me. It's not about being Russian. It is about the one-man showmanship that may come with it. Alexander Ovechking, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alexei Kovalev are and were tremendously skilled hockey players, but they are very difficult to fit into a team chemistry. Those guys can shine on any team because they can stand alone, and that isn't always a good thing. We had a guy similar in his isolation with Zigmund Palffy. I would prefer a winger for Tavares or a defenseman to a guy that can dazzle with EA Sports moves. But to your premise, let's look at the resumes of some of the most skilled Russians to ever play:
Alexander Ovechkin - No Cups
Alexander Mogilny - No Cups
Ilya Kovalchuk - No Cups
Sergei Fedorov - Falls apart and is never on a winning team again after leaving the Red Wings
Alexei Kovalev - Wins a Cup in his second year on the Mark Messier led New York Rangers
I won't even get into the pre-draft hype of Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev. And if you want to argue that Yakupov is "nothing like those guys" - Pierre Maguire, one of the most respected hockey people, swore up and down that Nikolai Filatov was "Nothing like Chereponov" - Well, he's hanging by a thread in the NHL if he's still hanging at all.
I'm not questioning Yakupov's skill. But many were up in arms when Filatov wasn't drafted in 2008. Frankly, I don't trust the Russian style of play or the temperamental personality that seem inherent. I'd rather not have the first pick in this draft. I'd rather go defense or wing, all while staying the hell away from the Russians.
Talented players don't make great teams. I'm not ripping off Herb Brooks. It happens to be true. David Volek, in his first year, showed some great talent. Petr Klima had some great talent. None of them are Russian. So it's not a Russian bias, per se. But there is something to be said for the quality of North American and Swedish players. Maybe it's the fact that they never grew up under political strife the way that the Czechs, Slovaks, and Russians have. And though the Iron Curtain has been down for Yakupov's lifetime, he has parents who grew up under it.
That sounds like typical Long Island, narcissistic, word twisting to me. It's not about being Russian. It is about the one-man showmanship that may come with it. Alexander Ovechking, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alexei Kovalev are and were tremendously skilled hockey players, but they are very difficult to fit into a team chemistry. Those guys can shine on any team because they can stand alone, and that isn't always a good thing. We had a guy similar in his isolation with Zigmund Palffy. I would prefer a winger for Tavares or a defenseman to a guy that can dazzle with EA Sports moves. But to your premise, let's look at the resumes of some of the most skilled Russians to ever play:
Alexander Ovechkin - No Cups
Alexander Mogilny - No Cups
Ilya Kovalchuk - No Cups
Sergei Fedorov - Falls apart and is never on a winning team again after leaving the Red Wings
Alexei Kovalev - Wins a Cup in his second year on the Mark Messier led New York Rangers
I won't even get into the pre-draft hype of Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev. And if you want to argue that Yakupov is "nothing like those guys" - Pierre Maguire, one of the most respected hockey people, swore up and down that Nikolai Filatov was "Nothing like Chereponov" - Well, he's hanging by a thread in the NHL if he's still hanging at all.
I'm not questioning Yakupov's skill. But many were up in arms when Filatov wasn't drafted in 2008. Frankly, I don't trust the Russian style of play or the temperamental personality that seem inherent. I'd rather not have the first pick in this draft. I'd rather go defense or wing, all while staying the hell away from the Russians.
Talented players don't make great teams. I'm not ripping off Herb Brooks. It happens to be true. David Volek, in his first year, showed some great talent. Petr Klima had some great talent. None of them are Russian. So it's not a Russian bias, per se. But there is something to be said for the quality of North American and Swedish players. Maybe it's the fact that they never grew up under political strife the way that the Czechs, Slovaks, and Russians have. And though the Iron Curtain has been down for Yakupov's lifetime, he has parents who grew up under it.
That's right! He was on that Scott Stevens, Scott Niedrmayer, Martin Brodeur led Devils team, wasn't he? In fairness, though, Mogilny did play an important part.
Second, if you think a forward is the best player, draft him, let him develop, and, if all of our forwards do pan out you will be able to move one for a dman.
I have to disagree on this, and here's why. Look at Garth's track record at the draft table. Solidly, he drafts forwards over defensemen as a theme, and likely thinking along the lines you suggest. So after a few years of this bad plan, we now find ourselves rich in forwards and poor in defensemen in the 20 to 25 bracket of development. Then we are told that a top tier defenseman in that age bracket will cost way more than a top tier forward of the same age. Hence, we are screwed. It will cost two forwards or more to bring back one defenseman of equal value.
That's right! He was on that Scott Stevens, Scott Niedrmayer, Martin Brodeur led Devils team, wasn't he? In fairness, though, Mogilny did play an important part.
Mogilny has always been an exceptional player. His only down years were when he was leaned on by the Russian mob, and yes please look it up if you never have.
I wonder sometimes what influence those types may be having on Petrov and his situation.
If we have top 4 pick, we WILL be drafting a forward..I'd be happy with any picks up there.
As for Yakupov...I just read an article that he is teaching himself to be a good player without the puck. I see what you mean about the individualistic type play, BUT Yakupov is feisty..like a Kasparitis feisty and any team could use Kasper. He'd compliment JT well...but any of the top 4 is perfectly fine with me.
That sounds like typical Long Island, narcissistic, word twisting to me. It's not about being Russian. It is about the one-man showmanship that may come with it. Alexander Ovechking, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alexei Kovalev are and were tremendously skilled hockey players, but they are very difficult to fit into a team chemistry. Those guys can shine on any team because they can stand alone, and that isn't always a good thing. We had a guy similar in his isolation with Zigmund Palffy. I would prefer a winger for Tavares or a defenseman to a guy that can dazzle with EA Sports moves. But to your premise, let's look at the resumes of some of the most skilled Russians to ever play:
Alexander Ovechkin - No Cups
Alexander Mogilny - No Cups
Ilya Kovalchuk - No Cups
Sergei Fedorov - Falls apart and is never on a winning team again after leaving the Red Wings
Alexei Kovalev - Wins a Cup in his second year on the Mark Messier led New York Rangers
I won't even get into the pre-draft hype of Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev. And if you want to argue that Yakupov is "nothing like those guys" - Pierre Maguire, one of the most respected hockey people, swore up and down that Nikolai Filatov was "Nothing like Chereponov" - Well, he's hanging by a thread in the NHL if he's still hanging at all.
I'm not questioning Yakupov's skill. But many were up in arms when Filatov wasn't drafted in 2008. Frankly, I don't trust the Russian style of play or the temperamental personality that seem inherent. I'd rather not have the first pick in this draft. I'd rather go defense or wing, all while staying the hell away from the Russians.
Talented players don't make great teams. I'm not ripping off Herb Brooks. It happens to be true. David Volek, in his first year, showed some great talent. Petr Klima had some great talent. None of them are Russian. So it's not a Russian bias, per se. But there is something to be said for the quality of North American and Swedish players. Maybe it's the fact that they never grew up under political strife the way that the Czechs, Slovaks, and Russians have. And though the Iron Curtain has been down for Yakupov's lifetime, he has parents who grew up under it.
What about the Russian 5? You mention that Federov wasn't as good after leaving Detroit, but fail to mention that he left a bunch of Ruskies behind (and that he was older)
And Mogilny is no good because he had good teamates when he won the cup, but single-handedy taking his team to game 7 isn't good enough for Bure?
And as I said before, if Yak could play Malkin to Tavares' Crosby, that would be sweet. And what's with the bit about Yak's parents and the Iron Curtain? Just because Mom and Dad had to wait in line to buy toilet paper, their kid can't be a (Super)Star in the NHL? WTF?
And now you're including Czechs, too? Jags? Or was he just lucky to be on the same line as Mario?
There might be some institutional problems bringing players to NA from Russia due to the intransigence of the Russian Hockey Federation, and, as Pointed Stick has alluded to, possibly the Russian Mob. But that doesn't apply to Yakupov, because Sarnia is in Ontario, not Siberia.
And besides, I just realized that Yak's initials are "NY", so it's obviously destiny!
Mogilny has always been an exceptional player. His only down years were when he was leaned on by the Russian mob, and yes please look it up if you never have.
I wonder sometimes what influence those types may be having on Petrov and his situation.
Now I'm getting nervous. I used to have a really good memory. For purposes of maintaining sanity, I'll blame it on being busy, but I completely forgot about the Russian mob and the vice they had the likes of Bure, Mogilny, and Fedorov in. It was a big story some 10 years ago. Yeah, that could be a big distraction to anyone.
What about the Russian 5? You mention that Federov wasn't as good after leaving Detroit, but fail to mention that he left a bunch of Ruskies behind (and that he was older)
And Mogilny is no good because he had good teamates when he won the cup, but single-handedy taking his team to game 7 isn't good enough for Bure?
And as I said before, if Yak could play Malkin to Tavares' Crosby, that would be sweet. And what's with the bit about Yak's parents and the Iron Curtain? Just because Mom and Dad had to wait in line to buy toilet paper, their kid can't be a (Super)Star in the NHL? WTF?
And now you're including Czechs, too? Jags? Or was he just lucky to be on the same line as Mario?
There might be some institutional problems bringing players to NA from Russia due to the intransigence of the Russian Hockey Federation, and, as Pointed Stick has alluded to, possibly the Russian Mob. But that doesn't apply to Yakupov, because Sarnia is in Ontario, not Siberia.
And besides, I just realized that Yak's initials are "NY", so it's obviously destiny!
I think that it is very possible that the Isles could draft anywhere from 5-7 and I wouldn't be disappointed if the Isles select Alex Galyenchuk (Sp??) if his showing at the combine is good. His torn ACL might be the only reason that he is not in the top three or four picks in this draft and even though I know that we could use more elite defensemen, if he is the BPA so be it!!
That sounds like typical Long Island, narcissistic, word twisting to me. It's not about being Russian. It is about the one-man showmanship that may come with it. Alexander Ovechking, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alexei Kovalev are and were tremendously skilled hockey players, but they are very difficult to fit into a team chemistry. Those guys can shine on any team because they can stand alone, and that isn't always a good thing. We had a guy similar in his isolation with Zigmund Palffy. I would prefer a winger for Tavares or a defenseman to a guy that can dazzle with EA Sports moves. But to your premise, let's look at the resumes of some of the most skilled Russians to ever play:
Alexander Ovechkin - No Cups
Alexander Mogilny - No Cups
Ilya Kovalchuk - No Cups
Sergei Fedorov - Falls apart and is never on a winning team again after leaving the Red Wings
Alexei Kovalev - Wins a Cup in his second year on the Mark Messier led New York Rangers
I won't even get into the pre-draft hype of Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev. And if you want to argue that Yakupov is "nothing like those guys" - Pierre Maguire, one of the most respected hockey people, swore up and down that Nikolai Filatov was "Nothing like Chereponov" - Well, he's hanging by a thread in the NHL if he's still hanging at all.
I'm not questioning Yakupov's skill. But many were up in arms when Filatov wasn't drafted in 2008. Frankly, I don't trust the Russian style of play or the temperamental personality that seem inherent. I'd rather not have the first pick in this draft. I'd rather go defense or wing, all while staying the hell away from the Russians.
Talented players don't make great teams. I'm not ripping off Herb Brooks. It happens to be true. David Volek, in his first year, showed some great talent. Petr Klima had some great talent. None of them are Russian. So it's not a Russian bias, per se. But there is something to be said for the quality of North American and Swedish players. Maybe it's the fact that they never grew up under political strife the way that the Czechs, Slovaks, and Russians have. And though the Iron Curtain has been down for Yakupov's lifetime, he has parents who grew up under it.
Mogilny won a Cup, which means three out of the five you picked have won it.
But hey, lets look at some of the best Canadian players in the past few years...how about we take the top-5 goal scorers for the past 10 years
Jarome Iginla - No cups
Dany Heatley - No cups
Rick Nash - No cups
Patrick Marleau - No cups
Vinny Lecavalier - One cup
What about the Russian 5? You mention that Federov wasn't as good after leaving Detroit, but fail to mention that he left a bunch of Ruskies behind (and that he was older)
And Mogilny is no good because he had good teamates when he won the cup, but single-handedy taking his team to game 7 isn't good enough for Bure?
And as I said before, if Yak could play Malkin to Tavares' Crosby, that would be sweet. And what's with the bit about Yak's parents and the Iron Curtain? Just because Mom and Dad had to wait in line to buy toilet paper, their kid can't be a (Super)Star in the NHL? WTF?
And now you're including Czechs, too? Jags? Or was he just lucky to be on the same line as Mario?
There might be some institutional problems bringing players to NA from Russia due to the intransigence of the Russian Hockey Federation, and, as Pointed Stick has alluded to, possibly the Russian Mob. But that doesn't apply to Yakupov, because Sarnia is in Ontario, not Siberia.
And besides, I just realized that Yak's initials are "NY", so it's obviously destiny!
I fully agree, I want Nail Yakupov. Him and JT would be sickening!!
Yakupov is the slam dunk choice if we have the #1 overall pick. He's been the consensus #1 since last year and he has done nothing to surrender that status. I personally prefer Grigorenko, but Yakupov has to be the pick for reasons also not on the ice. He's the sexiest name in the draft and would create the biggest buzz to a beat up fan base looking for anything positive. The thought of Tavares and Yakupov together on the ice would definitely create some buzz and most importantly - hope. There's no trying to rationalize it, he definitely fits a need and Snow cannot be second guessed either if Grigorenko or someone else becomes the best player in the draft.
If Snow were to bypass Yakupov for Grigorenko, the reaction would be quite mixed. Even though it could be the right decision, the initial reaction wouldn't be pretty. It's the Hall/Seguin, Ovechkin/Malkin scenario. You have the sexy wing prospect opposed to the big time center prospect.
After those two, the 2nd tier elite are all quite similar. This is when needs definitely plays a role in all of this. Forsberg and Galchenyuk are the other two elite forward prospects. I've stated my fondness for Forsberg, but Galchenyuk is no slouch. It's just too bad he's missing the season with a knee injury, but he's a high end center prospect.
If you look at the current lottery teams, most of them all are hurting on defense. Murray will be in the NHL next year. He's ready. Dumba at 3 may be considered a reach with the current rankings, but I would do cart wheels if he's the pick. The kid is a game changer. Trouba excites me as well.
We could seriously use any of them because you have to be a lottery team to get the chance to pick any of them. In the end, that means we suck. The greatest value of a lottery pick is the hope for a better day.
'Lottery picks are beautiful girls, Will. A lottery pick can make you dizzy, like you've been drinking Jack and Coke all morning. They can make you feel high full of the single greatest commodity known to man - promise. Promise of a better day. Promise of a greater hope. Promise of a new tomorrow. This particular aura can be found in the gait of a lottery pick. In his smile, in his soul, the way he makes every rotten little thing about life seem like it's going to be okay. The lottery picks, Willy? That's all they are. Bottled promise. Scenes from a brand new day. Hope dancing in ice skates.'
That sounds like typical Long Island, narcissistic, word twisting to me. It's not about being Russian. It is about the one-man showmanship that may come with it. Alexander Ovechking, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alexei Kovalev are and were tremendously skilled hockey players, but they are very difficult to fit into a team chemistry. Those guys can shine on any team because they can stand alone, and that isn't always a good thing. We had a guy similar in his isolation with Zigmund Palffy. I would prefer a winger for Tavares or a defenseman to a guy that can dazzle with EA Sports moves. But to your premise, let's look at the resumes of some of the most skilled Russians to ever play:
Alexander Ovechkin - No Cups
Alexander Mogilny - No Cups
Ilya Kovalchuk - No Cups
Sergei Fedorov - Falls apart and is never on a winning team again after leaving the Red Wings
Alexei Kovalev - Wins a Cup in his second year on the Mark Messier led New York Rangers
I won't even get into the pre-draft hype of Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev. And if you want to argue that Yakupov is "nothing like those guys" - Pierre Maguire, one of the most respected hockey people, swore up and down that Nikolai Filatov was "Nothing like Chereponov" - Well, he's hanging by a thread in the NHL if he's still hanging at all.
I'm not questioning Yakupov's skill. But many were up in arms when Filatov wasn't drafted in 2008. Frankly, I don't trust the Russian style of play or the temperamental personality that seem inherent. I'd rather not have the first pick in this draft. I'd rather go defense or wing, all while staying the hell away from the Russians.
Talented players don't make great teams. I'm not ripping off Herb Brooks. It happens to be true. David Volek, in his first year, showed some great talent. Petr Klima had some great talent. None of them are Russian. So it's not a Russian bias, per se. But there is something to be said for the quality of North American and Swedish players. Maybe it's the fact that they never grew up under political strife the way that the Czechs, Slovaks, and Russians have. And though the Iron Curtain has been down for Yakupov's lifetime, he has parents who grew up under it.
No offense but you leave out people like
Malkin,
Datsyuk why? Cause it would hurt your argument?
If we have top 4 pick, we WILL be drafting a forward..I'd be happy with any picks up there.
I agree.
It's also a bit of a leaguewide trend in recent years to go for an impact forward with a top 5, maybe top 10 pick. The feeling is simply that the chances of top-flight players from the forward ranks are much more likely to live up to their billing than any others and that quality defensemen can often be had in later rounds, especially considering that Dmen generally take longer to reach their potential.
