I gotta think that Murray would be the best thing that could happen to this franchise at this juncture.
I'm not even sure right now that Snow would take either Yakupov or Grigorenko if he were in a position to do so.
I like Murray alot too, as anyone would. I'm just scared about our foward corp. currently. Bailey looks like he is going to end up a defensively responsible 2nd/3rd line tweener, same with Frans. Okposo looks like nothing more than a third line grinder, and grinder is being generous. Grabner has been very dissapointing and is a complimentary 3rd line scoring winger on a solid team. P.A. is not signed to a contract yet. In addition, Moulson's one dimensional play is starting to worry me. Nino has looked like absolute garbage and might not be in the AHL next year where he needs to be due to CAP reasons. Maybe I'm looking at it as if the glass is half empty and also because we've played a terrible last few games but this is the time of season you turn your play up a notch, not down.
I like Murray alot too, as anyone would. I'm just scared about our foward corp. currently. Bailey looks like he is going to end up a defensively responsible 2nd/3rd line tweener, same with Frans. Okposo looks like nothing more than a third line grinder, and grinder is being generous. Grabner has been very dissapointing and is a complimentary 3rd line scoring winger on a solid team. P.A. is not signed to a contract yet. In addition, Moulson's one dimensional play is starting to worry me. Nino has looked like absolute garbage and might not be in the AHL next year where he needs to be due to CAP reasons. Maybe I'm looking at it as if the glass is half empty and also because we've played a terrible last few games but this is the time of season you turn your play up a notch, not down.
Great post. You said it very well. Drafting Murray would be great, but, as PASTROMEY said, we need forwards, too. Guys love to point out that we need D-men, and they are right, but we need forwards, too. Name one, besides Tavares, that you think is a given moving forward. Martin? OK, I'll go with that...he's a good 3rd liner. Any other nominees for givens moving forward? Moulson? Maybe...anyone else? I understand that our D prospects are as questionable, but...
Great post. You said it very well. Drafting Murray would be great, but, as PASTROMEY said, we need forwards, too. Guys love to point out that we need D-men, and they are right, but we need forwards, too. Name one, besides Tavares, that you think is a given moving forward. Martin? OK, I'll go with that...he's a good 3rd liner. Any other nominees for givens moving forward? Moulson? Maybe...anyone else? I understand that our D prospects are as questionable, but...
I really like Nino and (even though I may catch flak for this) Bailey going forward... Strome I like as well, Petrov is intriguing... I think we have a solid foundation at Forward... if we won the lottery and ended up with the first pick though it needs to be BPA (clearly Yakupov) or trade down to acquire young, high end defensemen and then draft BPA from that position
Okposo looks like nothing more than a third line grinder, and grinder is being generous. Grabner has been very dissapointing and is a complimentary 3rd line scoring winger on a solid team.
If I had been Snow, I would have seen if LA would have taken Okposo, Grabner and Wishart for Brown and Martinez.
Had that not happened, I would have seen if Phoenix would have taken the same deal for Boedker, Summers and Lessio.
I also would have taken Clitsome off of waivers without blinking twice.
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Nino has looked like absolute garbage and might not be in the AHL next year where he needs to be due to CAP reasons.
What they've done with Niederreiter this year has been a travesty. I can't even imagine how other GMs must have been shaking their heads seeing this kid be forecefed 4th line minutes with the likes of Pandolfo and Reasoner.
Just terrible. The kid should have done his 9 games, gone to juniors, the WJC and then to BPort for the playoffs once Portland's season was over. Then to the WC in Stockholm/Helsinki.
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Maybe I'm looking at it as if the glass is half empty and also because we've played a terrible last few games but this is the time of season you turn your play up a notch, not down.
The team ain't capable.
No surprises here... They won a few in the dog days of winter when a lot of teams are sleeping a bit or finetuning their systems.
Great post. You said it very well. Drafting Murray would be great, but, as PASTROMEY said, we need forwards, too. Guys love to point out that we need D-men, and they are right, but we need forwards, too. Name one, besides Tavares, that you think is a given moving forward. Martin? OK, I'll go with that...he's a good 3rd liner. Any other nominees for givens moving forward? Moulson? Maybe...anyone else? I understand that our D prospects are as questionable, but...
A very good defense is more important imo than a very good offense with a weak defense. When you have 4 really good defenseman, it makes your offense better because you're not in the defensive zone for most of the game. If you have a weak defense like the Islanders have right now, it's hard to generate a lot of offense because they're always in the defensive zone. They are lucky Nabokov is playing very good this year.
If we pick in the 4 or 5 range, I'm looking at Forsberg/Dumba/Galchenyuk. Obviously the lottery can change things, but for the most part those are the guys I'm looking at. I'm really not sold on Forsberg, although his ceiling may be the highest of the 3. Dumba seems to be exactly what we are lacking on the blueline, but d-men(especially those as raw as Dumba is) take time to develop. We might not have the patience to properly develop him. Galchenyuk OTOH has legit star potential, however the injury is a concern. All three guys have question marks; All three are elite prospects. Can't really pick one at the moment, but I'll have a better idea of who I'd want come draft day.
As far as the current NHL squad goes, I would go knocking on Phoenix's door and offer them a package centered around Grabner and a prospect/pick for Rundblad and Torres. Stick Torres on the 4th line with Cizikas and either Ullstrom, Rakh or Haley and we have a gritty, hard-working 4th line. Rundblad can ease in on the bottom pairing playing with MacDonald. Hamonic will man the 2nd pairing with either deHaan or Donovan. Probably deHaan as long as he's healthy(I know this guy takes some heat here for the injuries, but he is a legit prospect. He's developed very nicely to this point and if not for the injury he would not only be an NHLer right now, but he'd be receiving substantial minutes for this team). Top-pairing has to be "2013 UFA-to-be" Mark Streit with our main 2012 UFA target AND acquisition, Dennis Wideman. The dude will add everything we are currently lacking. Size, grit, heart, top-4 talent, RH shot. A 3 or 4 year deal would be perfect.
Up front, I think we need to bring in whichever coach that can get the most physical play out of our current group. A guy like Okposo is capable of so much more than what he is producing at the moment. Forget the scoresheet for a minute and just think back to when he was our best player on a nightly basis. It's not like he is over the hill. He needs to get back to where he was, and I think the right coach can help him do that. Nino is another guy who I expect to be a pretty big physical force next year. If Torres is acquired, he will provide a lot in that area.
As for Martin, he will obviously be our best in that category, however I'd like to see him with Tavares. Call me crazy, but I want to mix it up a bit and I think Martin is capable of much more than just 3rd line production. He probably is one of the most underrated players on this team as far as offensive capability goes. Personally, I think the future of this team will be a line of Martin - Tavares - Strome. Whether it is next year or later on, I think that will be the line this team rides for success. I wouldn't be afraid to give Strome a shot in TC to see if the time is now either. Don't be afraid of rushing him. If he is ready he will take the spot and run with it. If he isn't, you send him back to Juniors for another year. No harm, no foul.
If he is ready though and takes that spot, the creation of that line could be the birth of something very special.
Correction. The Islanders have some nice skill with Tavares. I am a bit surprised to see anyone use Grabner as an example given the season he is having after only one really good season (admittedly as a rookie, but still a small sample size to point to him as a given). I want to believe he'll be back scoring 30+ goals next season, but I am not sure that is going to happen. He has shown himself to be a very flawed player. Either he works on his game or I don't see him as part of the core. Nielsen? Man, I don't know what to tell you. He has talent, but is definitely better defensively than offensively. He is definitely not the guy that I'd point to as an example of why we have enough talent or skill as you put it. This team needs talent first, and foremost. Sure, we need size and bite, but that takes a backseat to talent...unless we can get a guy with both. If a guy has serious talent at the top end of the draft, we grab him. I can understand the team passing on guys that are tiny, but they can't pass on serious talent to grab a Brad Dalgarno. Talent trumps size.
I think both Grabner and Nielson are talented players. The problem is they play on the same line and they have Okposo as well. You have 2 lightweights physically and one lightweight emotionally. I bet you Grabner and Nielson would be 20-25 goal scorers on the Bruins or Rangers. Nielson gets the crap beat out of him trying to battle behind the net. Grabner is even worse and teams run him because that's how you counter his speed, plus there's no threat of retaliation. That wouldn't happen if he was playing alongside a Lucic or Brandon Prust.
The fact is, the Islanders are getting beat because they lack size and toughness. Zone time is a very important stat and the Islanders are terrible in that catagory, because they lose most of the battles. JT and Martin are the only players that really put up much of a fight, and believe me, it's going to take it's toll on JT in the long run. If you've been paying attention lately, Tavares is left on his back on the ice quite a bit lately. It's obvious teams have figured out the way to stop JT is to keep hitting him. He can't keep this up!!!
I'm not as worried about the offense as I am the defense. I'm going to throw a name out there that has been somewhat under the radar, but I think is going to be a great player for the Islanders.
Forget Strome, Kabonov, Petrov, Lee, and all the rest. Brock Nelson is going to be a monster. He's 6'4 over 200lbs. He's has speed for his size and a powerful slapshot. This year at UND in 33 games, he has 22 goals and 16 assists. I can't wait to see this guy in an Islander jersey.
Back to drafting a big defensemen this year. The Islanders have Nelson, Strome, Nino, and Kabonov in the near future. Include that with Cizakas (another underrated player) Rahkshani and Ullstrom and the offense has alot of promise.
On defense we have Ness, Donovan and Calvin (on the DL) DeHaan. Ok with that?
So forget fail for Nail. Let's play like poopa for Trouba or go into a slumpa for Dumba
Mikhail Grigorenko: There had been whispers over the past month that all may not be wonderful when it comes to the scouting world's perception of Grigorenko's competitiveness, but the whispers have grown into full-blown skepticism in some circles. "He could fall right off the map," said one scout who asserted that his club won't be considering him in the first round.
"He doesn't want to compete. If he's there at 25 and we are picking, we go by him."
I haven't seen him more than once (not counting the WJC), so I have no idea how accurate that is. But it's a bit concerning that it's becoming a common thing for scouts to comment on Grigorenko's compete level.
I haven't seen him more than once (not counting the WJC), so I have no idea how accurate that is. But it's a bit concerning that it's becoming a common thing for scouts to comment on Grigorenko's compete level.
Thoughts?
A few articles, from earlier in the season,compared him to Viktor Kozlov.
I guess this draft is looking more and more like Nail and then everyone else on lower tiers.
I haven't seen him more than once (not counting the WJC), so I have no idea how accurate that is. But it's a bit concerning that it's becoming a common thing for scouts to comment on Grigorenko's compete level.
Thoughts?
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW
A few articles, from earlier in the season,compared him to Viktor Kozlov.
I guess this draft is looking more and more like Nail and then everyone else on lower tiers.
Grigorenko came out like gangbusters at the start of the season and people started jumping on the bandwagon, myself included. Everything changed at the WJC when he suffered that ankle injury (it looked really bad, like ACL tear/broken leg) and he really hasn't been the same since. I know he had a game where he was -6 not too long ago and he's been inconsistent in the 2nd half. The fact that he finished the WJC basically on one leg to help his team - that tells me a lot.
Let's not forget that he's still a 17 year old kid who came over from Russia this year. He's on a good Quebec team and he's coached by Patrick Roy. He couldn't speak a lick of English when he first arrived and if you see an interview now, it's pretty amazing how far he's come in that respect while being in Quebec - wouldn't be surprised if he's not too bad in French either. Talk about culture shock.
This time of year, everyone is looking for warts in all the prospects. I find it a little funny how this guy is universally ranked in the top 5 (mostly #2) and now he's a dog that someone wouldn't take at #25 in the draft? Seriously? I know I don't downshift that fast. What I do know is NO ONE questions his talent. He's big, he can skate, he's got hockey sense, a laser shot, is a center, etc.
Remember how people were tearing down JT during his draft year? I also find it funny how people immediately jumped on the Galchenyuk express (he has not played a single game yet) the moment the ISS report came out with an assist from the mention of Victor Kozlov. In any case, it is a chink in the armor and cannot be completely ignored. I don't get to see him play so I'll reserve final judgement when all the scouting, combine, interviews, and all the other stuff is done. Unless this kid starts acting like Sean Avery or something, I'd still take him #2 and possibly #1.
Grigorenko came out like gangbusters at the start of the season and people started jumping on the bandwagon, myself included. Everything changed at the WJC when he suffered that ankle injury (it looked really bad, like ACL tear/broken leg) and he really hasn't been the same since. I know he had a game where he was -6 not too long ago and he's been inconsistent in the 2nd half. The fact that he finished the WJC basically on one leg to help his team - that tells me a lot.
Let's not forget that he's still a 17 year old kid who came over from Russia this year. He's on a good Quebec team and he's coached by Patrick Roy. He couldn't speak a lick of English when he first arrived and if you see an interview now, it's pretty amazing how far he's come in that respect while being in Quebec - wouldn't be surprised if he's not too bad in French either. Talk about culture shock.
This time of year, everyone is looking for warts in all the prospects. I find it a little funny how this guy is universally ranked in the top 5 (mostly #2) and now he's a dog that someone wouldn't take at #25 in the draft? Seriously? I know I don't downshift that fast. What I do know is NO ONE questions his talent. He's big, he can skate, he's got hockey sense, a laser shot, is a center, etc.
Remember how people were tearing down JT during his draft year? I also find it funny how people immediately jumped on the Galchenyuk express (he has not played a single game yet) the moment the ISS report came out with an assist from the mention of Victor Kozlov. In any case, it is a chink in the armor and cannot be completely ignored. I don't get to see him play so I'll reserve final judgement when all the scouting, combine, interviews, and all the other stuff is done. Unless this kid starts acting like Sean Avery or something, I'd still take him #2 and possibly #1.
In early Feb. ,Bob McKenzie had a draft article saying he'd polled 10 scouts.9 out of the 10 said they'd take Nail first overall.1 said he'd pick Grigorenko 1st overall.
I would be very surprised , if scouts didn't take injury history into account before making their final choices.
Let's face it though.......Snow and Wang march to their own beat,ignore what others think.If 9 out of 10 teams would take Nail over Grigorenko,you can bet the isles would be that 10th team ,choosing Grigorenko over Nail
In early Feb. ,Bob McKenzie had a draft article saying he'd polled 10 scouts.9 out of the 10 said they'd take Nail first overall.1 said he'd pick Grigorenko 1st overall.
I would be very surprised , if scouts didn't take injury history into account before making their final choices.
Let's face it though.......Snow and Wang march to their own beat,ignore what others think.If 9 out of 10 teams would take Nail over Grigorenko,you can bet the isles would be that 10th team ,choosing Grigorenko over Nail
Haha, I can't argue with you there. Honestly though, I don't think you can go wrong with either Yakupov or Grigorenko. We could use either player and they both fill needs. I think it all depends on that psych test that they seem to rely so heavily on. I'd love to know or see that test.
Grigorenko came out like gangbusters at the start of the season and people started jumping on the bandwagon, myself included. Everything changed at the WJC when he suffered that ankle injury (it looked really bad, like ACL tear/broken leg) and he really hasn't been the same since. I know he had a game where he was -6 not too long ago and he's been inconsistent in the 2nd half. The fact that he finished the WJC basically on one leg to help his team - that tells me a lot.
Let's not forget that he's still a 17 year old kid who came over from Russia this year. He's on a good Quebec team and he's coached by Patrick Roy. He couldn't speak a lick of English when he first arrived and if you see an interview now, it's pretty amazing how far he's come in that respect while being in Quebec - wouldn't be surprised if he's not too bad in French either. Talk about culture shock.
This time of year, everyone is looking for warts in all the prospects. I find it a little funny how this guy is universally ranked in the top 5 (mostly #2) and now he's a dog that someone wouldn't take at #25 in the draft? Seriously? I know I don't downshift that fast. What I do know is NO ONE questions his talent. He's big, he can skate, he's got hockey sense, a laser shot, is a center, etc.
Remember how people were tearing down JT during his draft year? I also find it funny how people immediately jumped on the Galchenyuk express (he has not played a single game yet) the moment the ISS report came out with an assist from the mention of Victor Kozlov. In any case, it is a chink in the armor and cannot be completely ignored. I don't get to see him play so I'll reserve final judgement when all the scouting, combine, interviews, and all the other stuff is done. Unless this kid starts acting like Sean Avery or something, I'd still take him #2 and possibly #1.
I think there's a good chance the bolded is what's taking place with Grigorenko. I also think that whichever scout made that comment about not taking him even if he was still available at 25 was exaggerating to make his point that he's concerned with Grigorenko's compete level.
There very well may be some concern about his game-to-game compete level, but the million dollar question for a team drafting him is, are we talking Evgeni Malkin/Ryan Getzlaf levels of inconsistency? Or are we talking about Jason Bonsignore/Pavel Brendl levels of inconsistency? If it's the former, you take him high without even looking back. If it's the latter, then ...
I think there's a good chance the bolded is what's taking place with Grigorenko. I also think that whichever scout made that comment about not taking him even if he was still available at 25 was exaggerating to make his point that he's concerned with Grigorenko's compete level.
There very well may be some concern about his game-to-game compete level, but the million dollar question for a team drafting him is, are we talking Evgeni Malkin/Ryan Getzlaf levels of inconsistency? Or are we talking about Jason Bonsignore/Pavel Brendl levels of inconsistency? If it's the former, you take him high without even looking back. If it's the latter, then ...
Yep, this is already the time of the season where the overanalysis of the top end guys starts taking effect.
I don't know enough about him to make a solid analysis, but he was no slouch at the last U18 tournament and it would seem like the size and hands are tending more towards Malkin than anything else.
Hard to overlook that, no matter what one thinks of the competitive edge thingy... So maybe he still needs to learn what it's like to compete over the length of a grueling season.
A very good defense is more important imo than a very good offense with a weak defense. When you have 4 really good defenseman, it makes your offense better because you're not in the defensive zone for most of the game. If you have a weak defense like the Islanders have right now, it's hard to generate a lot of offense because they're always in the defensive zone. They are lucky Nabokov is playing very good this year.
By the same token, you could say that talented forwards that can control the puck in the offensive zone can take the pressure off of a suspect defense. Looking at recent champions, the Canes and Penguins won without a great defense. Nobody has won without a great forwards, especially at center.
Truth is you need both, and we have neither.
We should continue to take the best player available. While we seem to have more depth upfront, we have few sure things. Maybe Strome. For all we know, De Haan, Donavan, Pedan and Mayfield will all make it, while Kabanov, Petrov, Nelson etc don't.
And if all the forwards do make it, we will be able to move some for defensive help (assuming we have a GM who will make a trade).
I think there's a good chance the bolded is what's taking place with Grigorenko. I also think that whichever scout made that comment about not taking him even if he was still available at 25 was exaggerating to make his point that he's concerned with Grigorenko's compete level.
There very well may be some concern about his game-to-game compete level, but the million dollar question for a team drafting him is, are we talking Evgeni Malkin/Ryan Getzlaf levels of inconsistency? Or are we talking about Jason Bonsignore/Pavel Brendl levels of inconsistency? If it's the former, you take him high without even looking back. If it's the latter, then ...
Great insight and I'm definitely intrigued as to how this plays out. I've only seen Girgorenko in the WJC (too bad for the injury) and the Top Prospects Game (a major defensive struggle). Of course, there are the assorted YouTube highlights that are REALLY impressive. It's hard for laymen to know if there is indeed a compete level issue and to what degree if there is.
He plays for Patrick Roy and I have only seen praise coming from him in regards to big Mikhail. Whether or not you like Roy (I personally don't), but I think he knows what he's talking about. Also, style of play may well be a factor. No doubt that Yakupov is an electrifying talent and he plays with an edge. It's very hard not to notice him when he's on the ice. Grigorenko is a completely different player who relies on his significant level of hockey sense to excel. Nail speeds up the play, Mikhail slows it down. It not may be flashy, but damn effective as we've seen with our own golden boy - JT. Hockey sense is such an abstract concept that needs continued viewings to truly appreciate. Grigorenko is not devoid of excellent physical gifts though, but I think you get my point.
Thanks for pointing the article out STK, it was an interesting read. I guess we'll just have to see how things shake out. There's still a lot of hockey left, but I'll keep this compete issue in mind. It probably doesn't help that he's Russian either, it could be a little bias going on as well. If I had to bet, I think Grigorenko is closer to the Malkin/Getzlaf inconsistency than the Bonsignore/Brendl inconsistency.
Yep, this is already the time of the season where the overanalysis of the top end guys starts taking effect.
I don't know enough about him to make a solid analysis, but he was no slouch at the last U18 tournament and it would seem like the size and hands are tending more towards Malkin than anything else.
Hard to overlook that, no matter what one thinks of the competitive edge thingy... So maybe he still needs to learn what it's like to compete over the length of a grueling season.
Many young players do...
I don't know what it's like in Russia where he's from, but the CHL is literally and figuratively a completely different world. There was something about when he first arrived in Quebec, he asked his translator why there were so many people at the airport and cheering. He thought there was some celebrity there and she informed him that it was him. That blew his mind. I thought that was pretty funny, but also very telling.
By the same token, you could say that talented forwards that can control the puck in the offensive zone can take the pressure off of a suspect defense. Looking at recent champions, the Canes and Penguins won without a great defense. Nobody has won without a great forwards, especially at center.
Truth is you need both, and we have neither.
We should continue to take the best player available. While we seem to have more depth upfront, we have few sure things. Maybe Strome. For all we know, De Haan, Donavan, Pedan and Mayfield will all make it, while Kabanov, Petrov, Nelson etc don't.
And if all the forwards do make it, we will be able to move some for defensive help (assuming we have a GM who will make a trade).
I still think Snow will go after a rising foward (Terevainen, Collberg, Faksa) but if one of Murray, Dumba, Trouba are on the board I don't see how you can pass on them. Also Thrower needs to be our second rounder!
