if the season ended today we would be picking 4th overall. At which point we have missed out on some top prospects but have a chance at guys like (in order I would want)
1) Forsberg
2) Galchenyuk
3) Trouba
I am still thinking we add forwards
Forsberg is still such a mystery. I am really looking forward to see how he does at the WJC. He could seriously push his way to make it a top 3 draft with Yakupov and Grigorenko. From scouting reports, this kid has been compared to Mats Sundin and Brendan Shanahan. If he's available at #4, I'd take him.
It does seem to be an organizational trend to go with forwards with a lottery pick, but it has to be time to seriously look at a defenseman. The only ones that I would consider that high are Dumba and Murray. I prefer Dumba though. I absolutely love the way he plays and I think he could energize the team. The kid is an awesome open ice hitter. Elite skating ability and some very nice skill. He's the upside pick of the two.
Murray is intriguing too and he's NHL ready. Dumba may need another year or two in Juniors (knowing Snow, he'll make the team right away), but Murray could step in right away. I think he could have a Larsson type of impact for the Isles - eat up minutes. Does everything well, nothing exceptional.
It's too bad that Galchenyuk and Reilly are injured. Both impressive, but I wouldn't pick either with a top 5 pick. I don't like damaged goods.
Forsberg is still such a mystery. I am really looking forward to see how he does at the WJC. He could seriously push his way to make it a top 3 draft with Yakupov and Grigorenko. From scouting reports, this kid has been compared to Mats Sundin and Brendan Shanahan. If he's available at #4, I'd take him.
It does seem to be an organizational trend to go with forwards with a lottery pick, but it has to be time to seriously look at a defenseman. The only ones that I would consider that high are Dumba and Murray. I prefer Dumba though. I absolutely love the way he plays and I think he could energize the team. The kid is an awesome open ice hitter. Elite skating ability and some very nice skill. He's the upside pick of the two.
Murray is intriguing too and he's NHL ready. Dumba may need another year or two in Juniors (knowing Snow, he'll make the team right away), but Murray could step in right away. I think he could have a Larsson type of impact for the Isles - eat up minutes. Does everything well, nothing exceptional.
It's too bad that Galchenyuk and Reilly are injured. Both impressive, but I wouldn't pick either with a top 5 pick. I don't like damaged goods.
Really, I get so annoyed with scouting reports on draft eligibles. I'm talking about scouting reports from reporters, not from fans. They have these kids all over the map. I have never seen Ryan Murray play. His youtube videos are all fights, then I hear he's drawing Scott Niedermayer comparissons? Huh? Scott Niedermayer probably never even punched his brother when he was 6, nevermind punch another hockey player. He's also one of the most fluid skaters I have ever seen, and I saw Paul Coffey, who is probably Niedermayer's only rival in terms of what I've seen. I have no doubt that Ryan Murray is a very good hockey player, but the comparissons get stupid.
Really, I don't want to get too hung up on the forthcoming draft. I'm frankly quite sick of it. I've been following it for over 20 years, it would be nice to finally see the team win a bit. But like I said, we are still so far off from winning. It's going to take quite a while, like five years before we see the playoffs again... unless something in ownership seriously changes.
Forsberg is still such a mystery. I am really looking forward to see how he does at the WJC. He could seriously push his way to make it a top 3 draft with Yakupov and Grigorenko. From scouting reports, this kid has been compared to Mats Sundin and Brendan Shanahan. If he's available at #4, I'd take him.
It does seem to be an organizational trend to go with forwards with a lottery pick, but it has to be time to seriously look at a defenseman. The only ones that I would consider that high are Dumba and Murray. I prefer Dumba though. I absolutely love the way he plays and I think he could energize the team. The kid is an awesome open ice hitter. Elite skating ability and some very nice skill. He's the upside pick of the two.
Murray is intriguing too and he's NHL ready. Dumba may need another year or two in Juniors (knowing Snow, he'll make the team right away), but Murray could step in right away. I think he could have a Larsson type of impact for the Isles - eat up minutes. Does everything well, nothing exceptional.
It's too bad that Galchenyuk and Reilly are injured. Both impressive, but I wouldn't pick either with a top 5 pick. I don't like damaged goods.
I think the top three will look like 1. Yakupov, 2. Grigorenko, 3. Forsberg and if the Isles are picking 4th, I see Mathew Dumba in the cards. I know Snow likes to go with forwards in a lottery position, as you say, but realize also that he was looking at Alex Pietrangelo in 2008 and only traded down once he couldn't get him. Ryan Murray plays a similar game to Pietrangelo, but Dumba is more of a riser this year and I agree he has exceptional qualities that would entice any GM, even if their motus operandi is to avoid defensemen with lottery picks.
Either way, I think Forsberg, Dumba, and Murray are early candidates if they finish anywhere from 3-5. Galchenyuk won't be a top 5 pick with his injury status and there's no other elite forward as a top pick candidate. As far as other defenseman, Rielly is still a possibility, but Trouba won't go that high as his offensive game won't warrant a lottery selection. Brendan Gaunce and Zemgus Girgensons are more likely in the 8-12 range unless a team falls in love with them. Which of course, Snow is very susceptible to doing just that.
I think this is the year the Islanders break down and pick a defenseman with their top pick and I think it will be Mathew Dumba. Too special to pass up.
My thing is if the Islanders were going to go defense the time already passed with the likes of Fowler, Gormley, Hamilton. Siemens, Murphy.. Murray and Dumba are not the biggest guys in the world and although they have been said to throw around their weight the Malkins, Staals, and Ovies in our divison will have a field day. I am not saying being physical is the entire aspect of being a defender I mean you are talking to a guy who honestly believes de Haan is going to be a top pairing defender for the Islanders.
From what I have seen (very little to be honest) Dumba can be a force on both sides of the ice and Murray was touted as possibly the second best 'spec behind Nail in the early stages.
I just feel if Snow was going to take a defender he would have done it yesterday so-to-speak. Nino and Strome are the only two prospects who do not still have some sort of serious question mark.
Lee- Is Lee anything more than a checking line Center? Heck will the guy even play for the Islanders or lopole?
Kabanov- Will Kirill keep his head on straight for long enough to truly develop into the guy who was once thought to go first overall?
Nelson- How long until we see the kid? Still very wet behind the ears
etc... I still have some reservations that Strome will even be a top line scorer for the Islanders. Thus, we are still searching for top 6 forwards whom we all know will not be lured in via FA.
Petrov- Will Petrov ever actually play in NA?
I agree they need defenders but it almost seems that draft strategy would dictate that you go for forwards in the first round as they are easier to project and that you can't teach the kind of talent that goes high in a draft. D prospects as well as goalies can be found in the other rounds as they are much harder to project and in terms of D-men I think I'd want to see them in the 7 rounds next year have a spread of 2 forwards 5 defenseman barring any addition/subtractions of draft picks. If that is done for say 2 drafts you build up the d stock pretty quick and in a couple years have some worthy players.
Now that doesn't help the present in which they definitely need to trade or sign fa's but that is my draft strategy and it seems to be a lot of teams as well.
if the isles have current strength problems on D, they need to address that through the FA process, not through the draft. you pick the best player. they picked mayfield last year...
I agree with those that say you pick the BPA, don't draft a defenseman just because it's a weakness now. However, on the otherside, you don't pass over a defenseman for a lesser forward prospect just because you have a policy to pick primarily forwards in the first round. It's a dumb policy. If Yakupov and Grigorenko are off the board, the next best prospect is Matt Dumba according to most scouts/agencies. You don't pass up a premier talent on D for a lesser forward prospect. Fact is, the Isles lack top 4 D. I don't consider de Haan a premier defensive prospect and most scouting agencies don't either. He's solid, but expecting top pairing potential out of him is premature at this point. If the Isles pass up the BPA who is a defenseman for a forward prospect due to their silly (restrictive) policy, then it'll be on the list as one of their many, many mistakes.
Matt Dumba and Ryan Murray have top pairing potential. So have Jack Johnson, Marc Staal, Drew Doughty, Alex Pietrangelo, Zach Bogosian, Cam Fowler, etc. and the Isles have either missed out on them or passed them up (only in the case of Fowler, from the aforementioned). All of those defensemen are currently filling at least top 4 roles with reasonable success and in most cases, playing top pairing minutes. All are also playing just as well if not better than many forwards taken after them, but obviously not in every case.
If the team has a shot at Grigorenko and Dumba and both are rated equally, then yes you take the forward due to the projection being easier to make. However, if they have the choice between Dumba and Forsberg and Dumba is rated higher, passing him up for Forsberg would be a huge mistake. It doesn't matter what they've done in the past or what their policy is, you always take BPA. This year, it might be a defenseman. If it is, you take them and go home happy. If they don't, it'll be a foolish mistake.
if the isles have current strength problems on D, they need to address that through the FA process, not through the draft. you pick the best player. they picked mayfield last year...
no and thats not the point. if you are going to tell me he doesnt play a tough style, mazel tov. the point is, he's 6'4" and 200lbs...my point was we need to address toughness through the FA process.
I wouldnt pass over a Dman over a FWD if there was a clear distinction in talent. However, i think isles brass would say that its much easier to get a similar quality defenseman later in the draft than it is to get an elite fwd late in the draft, so even if there is a small difference in perceived talent, the ability to get similar players later, makes the FWD a better choice.
If things stay the same and we select #4, it's going to be interesting to see who Snow picks. Yakupov and Grigorenko will be gone. Forsberg should go #3, don't underrate this kid - he belongs in a class with the Russians. Dumba and Murray will be sitting right there for the taking. Galchenyuk is also available and he's the last of the elite forwards, but his season is over due to an ACL tear.
Who's Garth taking? Will he finally take a defenseman with a lottery pick? This draft is really heavy on D too so you'd have to think that we'd be able to get a good one with our 2nd round pick if we do want one. It would be very telling of the organization's philosophy towards defenseman.
With our 2nd round pick, I love Dalton Thrower. High energy d-man who hits hard and will throw down with almost anyone.
no and thats not the point. if you are going to tell me he doesnt play a tough style, mazel tov. the point is, he's 6'4" and 200lbs...my point was we need to address toughness through the FA process.
He's an average prospect, which is what I think he was getting at. Also, the Isles have shown a complete inability to address anything through the FA process. What they should do and end up doing are two entirely different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamKidd
I wouldnt pass over a Dman over a FWD if there was a clear distinction in talent. However, i think isles brass would say that its much easier to get a similar quality defenseman later in the draft than it is to get an elite fwd late in the draft, so even if there is a small difference in perceived talent, the ability to get similar players later, makes the FWD a better choice.
Unfortunately for Islanders fans, you're right. The thing is, the Islanders are wrong. You can't get quality in any position later in the draft at the same success rate that you can in the first round. That's backed by statistics, for every position. If it was so much easier to get a similar quality defenseman later in the draft than to get an elite forward, the Islanders and the rest of the league would be doing it. For every Shea Weber or Duncan Keith there's a million Kevin Klein's and Trevor Daley's. Fact is, it's not easy. Travis Hamonic is another rare exception and to expect a Weber or Keith career out of him would be delusional (not saying you are).
To even consider not taking the BPA because of a flawed idea exposes the Islanders brass for what they are, amateur at best. They will continue to be the laughing stock of the league because of it. There's no coincidence here, they're a joke of an organization because of their constant state of mismanagement and this policy of theirs is a prime example.
He's an average prospect, which is what I think he was getting at. Also, the Isles have shown a complete inability to address anything through the FA process. What they should do and end up doing are two entirely different things.
Unfortunately for Islanders fans, you're right. The thing is, the Islanders are wrong. You can't get quality in any position later in the draft at the same success rate that you can in the first round. That's backed by statistics, for every position. If it was so much easier to get a similar quality defenseman later in the draft than to get an elite forward, the Islanders and the rest of the league would be doing it. For every Shea Weber or Duncan Keith there's a million Kevin Klein's and Trevor Daley's. Fact is, it's not easy. Travis Hamonic is another rare exception and to expect a Weber or Keith career out of him would be delusional (not saying you are).
To even consider not taking the BPA because of a flawed idea exposes the Islanders brass for what they are, amateur at best. They will continue to be the laughing stock of the league because of it. There's no coincidence here, they're a joke of an organization because of their constant state of mismanagement and this policy of theirs is a prime example.
I'm not sure what Islander policy you're refering to?
He's an average prospect, which is what I think he was getting at. Also, the Isles have shown a complete inability to address anything through the FA process. What they should do and end up doing are two entirely different things.
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I disagree that Mayfield is an AVERAGE prospect. I think he's an above average prospect. A lot of scouting reports had him rated as a first round pick. Not many 6'4"-6'5" prospects can skate like him, he has offensive instincts, and plays with an edge. His offense may be disappointing at this moment, but I think he will get better offensively as he matures. I was thrilled with this pick, with so many midgets making up the bulk of our defensive prospects, it was nice to see the Isles draft some big, mean defensemen (Mayfield and Pedan).
Mayfield has great ability and his high end is a top pairing Dman if he busts he will most likely be a the tough 3rd pairing dman. The only knock i really kept hearing on Mayfield was his limited hockey sense ...The Isles still need everything and if the best player available is a Dman u take em and if its a forward you take him.
He's an average prospect, which is what I think he was getting at. Also, the Isles have shown a complete inability to address anything through the FA process. What they should do and end up doing are two entirely different things.
Actually no, I like Mayfield, and absolutely love the pick, I got confused, and thought kidd was saying he was a bad pick, so my apologizes to TeamKidd.
Mayfield has great ability and his high end is a top pairing Dman if he busts he will most likely be a the tough 3rd pairing dman. The only knock i really kept hearing on Mayfield was his limited hockey sense ...The Isles still need everything and if the best player available is a Dman u take em and if its a forward you take him.
Hopefully our management with limited hockey sense knows to leave him alone for a long time to develop some hockey sense.
I disagree that Mayfield is an AVERAGE prospect. I think he's an above average prospect. A lot of scouting reports had him rated as a first round pick. Not many 6'4"-6'5" prospects can skate like him, he has offensive instincts, and plays with an edge. His offense may be disappointing at this moment, but I think he will get better offensively as he matures. I was thrilled with this pick, with so many midgets making up the bulk of our defensive prospects, it was nice to see the Isles draft some big, mean defensemen (Mayfield and Pedan).
...And I could honestly care less if the offensive side of Mayfield's came ever comes around. We could use some defencemen, you know, that can actually play defense.
To even consider not taking the BPA because of a flawed idea exposes the Islanders brass for what they are, amateur at best. They will continue to be the laughing stock of the league because of it. There's no coincidence here, they're a joke of an organization because of their constant state of mismanagement and this policy of theirs is a prime example.
Im not sure i agree that this makes the the laughingstock....because how many other teams also passed on similar quality dmen to take a FWD? almost everyone in the top ten...and larsson was the exception rather than the rule. the reality is that there are far, far, far more defensemen busts in the first round than FWDS....and furthermore....please locate for me top ten defensive picks that ended up being great players within the last 10 years.....dion phaneuf? of the top 30 or so defenders...most of them were selected outside of the top 10. thats a fact.
