I'm not sure what Islander policy you're refering to?
Bad choice of words on my part, it's not so much a policy as it's a school of thought and a trend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99
I disagree that Mayfield is an AVERAGE prospect. I think he's an above average prospect. A lot of scouting reports had him rated as a first round pick. Not many 6'4"-6'5" prospects can skate like him, he has offensive instincts, and plays with an edge. His offense may be disappointing at this moment, but I think he will get better offensively as he matures. I was thrilled with this pick, with so many midgets making up the bulk of our defensive prospects, it was nice to see the Isles draft some big, mean defensemen (Mayfield and Pedan).
There's a lot of bigger kids that can skate like Mayfield, and lack hockey sense like Mayfield. They never become anything because of it. Ryan Parent was a big kid who lacked hockey sense, but he skated very well. Look how far that got him.
I watched him for two years in the USHL and I can tell you that his physical tools are only going to take him so far. Higher levels will expose him. I think he could top out maybe as a 3rd pairing guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneekypete
Mayfield has great ability and his high end is a top pairing Dman if he busts he will most likely be a the tough 3rd pairing dman. The only knock i really kept hearing on Mayfield was his limited hockey sense ...The Isles still need everything and if the best player available is a Dman u take em and if its a forward you take him.
What great ability? He's got size and skating, there's not much else to look forward to from him. If you honestly believe he has top pairing potential, I have to ask, what makes you think this? It's more than just limited hockey sense. He's just plain bad when it comes to getting the puck out of his own end and his offensive ability is completely overstated. Puck skills leave a lot to be desired. That, on top of his lack of hockey sense makes his a risky pick.
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Originally Posted by TeamKidd
Im not sure i agree that this makes the the laughingstock....because how many other teams also passed on similar quality dmen to take a FWD? almost everyone in the top ten...and larsson was the exception rather than the rule. the reality is that there are far, far, far more defensemen busts in the first round than FWDS....and furthermore....please locate for me top ten defensive picks that ended up being great players within the last 10 years.....dion phaneuf? of the top 30 or so defenders...most of them were selected outside of the top 10. thats a fact.
Ryan Suter and Brent Seabrook are pretty great players and both are top 10 from 2003, along with Phaneuf who is back to his old self this year. Pietrangelo is well on his way to becoming one of the best in the league. Larsson is very promising as well. John Carlson isn't top 10, but he's an absolute stud and was a 1st round pick. Same with Erik Karlsson.
It's not as bleak as you make it seem, the percentages are worse in the later rounds.
Scroll down and watch the highlights. Forsberg scored 2 goals and you can see that he's got some serious skills. He sniped the first one and the 2nd goal is a thing of beauty.
There's a lot of bigger kids that can skate like Mayfield, and lack hockey sense like Mayfield. They never become anything because of it. Ryan Parent was a big kid who lacked hockey sense, but he skated very well. Look how far that got him.
I watched him for two years in the USHL and I can tell you that his physical tools are only going to take him so far. Higher levels will expose him. I think he could top out maybe as a 3rd pairing guy.
What great ability? He's got size and skating, there's not much else to look forward to from him. If you honestly believe he has top pairing potential, I have to ask, what makes you think this? It's more than just limited hockey sense. He's just plain bad when it comes to getting the puck out of his own end and his offensive ability is completely overstated. Puck skills leave a lot to be desired. That, on top of his lack of hockey sense makes his a risky pick.
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Geezus, the kid is freaking 18 years old, you act like you know for a fact that there is no chance he can ever get better or ever progress. Yup, he's 18 and he can never get better.
There is a reason Mayfield was rated anywhere from mid first round to early second round by most scouting reports. And not 290th overall as you seem to rate him.
If you read any scouting on Mayfield, almost every scouting report discusses his smooth skating as a plus, and his hockey sense as a possible minus. There is no law that says his hockey sense can't improve, or his offensive skills can't improve. You can't teach the skills he has, size, grit and excellent skating. I'm thrilled we drafted him.
I bet you were one of these keyboard jockeys who was down on Brock Nelson last year too. Look at him now. Some guys take longer to adjust, and Mayfield probably has 4 years to show whether he can progress or not.
Geezus, the kid is freaking 18 years old, you act like you know for a fact that there is no chance he can ever get better or ever progress. Yup, he's 18 and he can never get better.
There is a reason Mayfield was rated anywhere from mid first round to early second round by most scouting reports. And not 290th overall as you seem to rate him.
If you read any scouting on Mayfield, almost every scouting report discusses his smooth skating as a plus, and his hockey sense as a possible minus. There is no law that says his hockey sense can't improve, or his offensive skills can't improve. You can't teach the skills he has, size, grit and excellent skating. I'm thrilled we drafted him.
I bet you were one of these keyboard jockeys who was down on Brock Nelson last year too. Look at him now. Some guys take longer to adjust, and Mayfield probably has 4 years to show whether he can progress or not.
There's always a reason for a player being drafted where they are, but it doesn't mean they're going to become the player some see them becoming. Fact of the matter is, Mayfield dropped from where he was originally projected at the beginning of his draft year. The more exposure he got the more scouts realized he wasn't quite at the level they anticipated when they first watched him play. That's what happens with players who have impressive tools, but no toolbox. The first time you see them you notice the skating and the skills, but the more you watch them the more you realize their flaws. Hockey sense is something that definitely becomes more apparent as time goes on. He didn't adapt or grow as much as other kids with better hockey sense. He really stagnated and regressed a bit from his first year in the USHL -- that's never a good thing.
Nelson I didn't see until he got into the NCAA and he's progressed well beyond anyone's expectations, but there was more of an unknown factor with him whereas Mayfield was heavily scouted in the USHL and his lack of hockey sense quickly exposed him as a limited prospect. He could definitely improve, he will, but not to the extent people here expect him to. Which is typical with HFBoards posters, you think just because he's young the sky is the limit. That's not always true, and it's a hard truth for some. Particularly fanboys.
Read all the scouting reports you want, I watched him play and quite a bit. I have my opinion and I have been wrong before, but I've never been impressed with Mayfield even before he was an Islander pick. Unlike most people here who really only became interested in him when the Islanders drafted him. Throw personal insults all you want, it just shows you have an emotional attachment and since I have a strong opinion that differs from yours, you feel you need to attack me. It's all good, it doesn't bother me.
There's always a reason for a player being drafted where they are, but it doesn't mean they're going to become the player some see them becoming. Fact of the matter is, Mayfield dropped from where he was originally projected at the beginning of his draft year. The more exposure he got the more scouts realized he wasn't quite at the level they anticipated when they first watched him play. That's what happens with players who have impressive tools, but no toolbox. The first time you see them you notice the skating and the skills, but the more you watch them the more you realize their flaws. Hockey sense is something that definitely becomes more apparent as time goes on. He didn't adapt or grow as much as other kids with better hockey sense. He really stagnated and regressed a bit from his first year in the USHL -- that's never a good thing.
Nelson I didn't see until he got into the NCAA and he's progressed well beyond anyone's expectations, but there was more of an unknown factor with him whereas Mayfield was heavily scouted in the USHL and his lack of hockey sense quickly exposed him as a limited prospect. He could definitely improve, he will, but not to the extent people here expect him to. Which is typical with HFBoards posters, you think just because he's young the sky is the limit. That's not always true, and it's a hard truth for some. Particularly fanboys.
Read all the scouting reports you want, I watched him play and quite a bit. I have my opinion and I have been wrong before, but I've never been impressed with Mayfield even before he was an Islander pick. Unlike most people here who really only became interested in him when the Islanders drafted him. Throw personal insults all you want, it just shows you have an emotional attachment and since I have a strong opinion that differs from yours, you feel you need to attack me. It's all good, it doesn't bother me.
Looks as though Mayfield is the latest prospect to go under the microscope by us. I agree that he has impressive physical gifts. He's a big boy that can skate and has sandpaper in his game. His hockey IQ does concern me, but he played on a poor team last year and it may be that he was just trying to do too much. He was drafted in the range that he was supposed to be drafted so I was happy with the pick.
He's definitely going to need significant time at Denver, but that's a great program and I'm glad he's there honing his game. Everyone's expectations are going to differ on him, but he shouldn't even be in the Isles equation for at least a couple more years. Is he going to be a first pairing d-man in the NHL? Could happen, but don't hold your breath. As long as he develops into a viable player, he has the tools to help this team. 3 or 4 years at Denver, another 1 or 2 at the Bridge and then we'll talk. For now, he's all projection.
I'm very happy with Brock Nelson's development. He's really taken a big jump this year. He was a bottom-6 player for most of his freshman year at North Dakota - they were stacked. Now that he's getting the ice time, he's producing. Again, he should be back in college for his Junior year and then we'll see where he stands.
Looks as though Mayfield is the latest prospect to go under the microscope by us. I agree that he has impressive physical gifts. He's a big boy that can skate and has sandpaper in his game. His hockey IQ does concern me, but he played on a poor team last year and it may be that he was just trying to do too much. He was drafted in the range that he was supposed to be drafted so I was happy with the pick.
Here's the thing, I'm not putting him under a microscope or just gaining a late interest in his career development. I watched him for two years and I have my formed opinion from that timespan. He's an ok pick, if you get a bottom pairing guy out of a 2nd round pick you did ok. That's what I see him becoming, I could be wrong. We'll see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior
He's definitely going to need significant time at Denver, but that's a great program and I'm glad he's there honing his game. Everyone's expectations are going to differ on him, but he shouldn't even be in the Isles equation for at least a couple more years. Is he going to be a first pairing d-man in the NHL? Could happen, but don't hold your breath. As long as he develops into a viable player, he has the tools to help this team. 3 or 4 years at Denver, another 1 or 2 at the Bridge and then we'll talk. For now, he's all projection.
I think that's a reasonable stance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior
I'm very happy with Brock Nelson's development. He's really taken a big jump this year. He was a bottom-6 player for most of his freshman year at North Dakota - they were stacked. Now that he's getting the ice time, he's producing. Again, he should be back in college for his Junior year and then we'll see where he stands.
Nelson is an interesting prospect, because he plays a pro game and has skill, intelligence, size, and work ethic. He's got a lot of tools and is a sure thing at some capacity. Whether he becomes a top 6er or bottom 6 guy is yet to be seen.
Here's the thing, I'm not putting him under a microscope or just gaining a late interest in his career development. I watched him for two years and I have my formed opinion from that timespan. He's an ok pick, if you get a bottom pairing guy out of a 2nd round pick you did ok. That's what I see him becoming, I could be wrong. We'll see.
Nelson is an interesting prospect, because he plays a pro game and has skill, intelligence, size, and work ethic. He's got a lot of tools and is a sure thing at some capacity. Whether he becomes a top 6er or bottom 6 guy is yet to be seen.
Mayfield is just way too far off the radar now to really know what we have in him. I hope you're wrong about him, but I'd be happy if he becomes a bottom pairing guy for us. As long as he becomes the big, physical RH defenseman we need. Expectations always need to be tempered, but we all HOPE for the best.
Regarding Nelson - big, skilled centers do not grow on trees. I'm definitely excited about him.
Anders Lee though, he's the most advanced of our collegians. He better be on the radar. Wouldn't be surprised if he signs with us after this year. I wouldn't be surprised either if he returns to ND for another year. I'm happy he's being coached by Jeff Jackson who has ties to the Isles. Big, hulking wingers do not grow on trees either.
With all that said, I don't expect anyone in the next year or two to make any sort of impact professionally. They just need to be left alone and away from Wang/Snow for the time being.
^ And that's problematic when you're relying solely on the development of your prospects to upgrade your roster's talent. That's putting A LOT of stock that that a) Some prospects will develop as expected b) Their development won't be altered in some way (e.g. stalled).
^ And that's problematic when you're relying solely on the development of your prospects to upgrade your roster's talent. That's putting A LOT of stock that that a) Some prospects will develop as expected b) Their development won't be altered in some way (e.g. stalled).
Yes, it's not ideal. It's pretty clear that Wang/Snow are not going to upgrade the roster outside of the organization so the development of our prospects is essential for this team's success in the future.
Yes, it's not ideal. It's pretty clear that Wang/Snow are not going to upgrade the roster outside of the organization so the development of our prospects is essential for this team's success in the future.
And that scenario tests the patience of an already jaded fanbase. I mean, we've already lost three posters in the past month, dire times...dire times.
I'll be very disappointed if the Islanders go Russian in this draft. Talented? Yes. But the Russians are scary and temperamental. Some of the greatest Russians are no different, Alex Ovechkin has proven difficult, Ilya Kovalchuk has proven difficult, and does Evgeni Malkin even speak English yet?
If we stay where we are, and I don't want to, but if we're picking in the top 5, I'm looking D. I don't know what the Islanders are doing, but I'm looking D. Watching Matthew Dumba on youtube, wow! I love what I see. He skates well, is a great open ice hitter, and has offensive upside. I'm looking very forward to seeing Ryan Murray at the WJCs in about 10 days. I also like Martin Frk, and Flip Forsberg is getting a lot of attention, but I've never seen him play.
In general, there's a reasonable chance that a Russian won't go first. The Columbus Blue Jackets are surely jaded by the experience with Nikita Filatov, who was supposed to be an atypical Russian in the respect that he was hungry for the NHL. The Anaheim Ducks probably want to get that dynamite partner for Cam Fowler. The Hurricanes, I would say, are likely to go with Yakupov if they pick first... especially since they have something of a dim view on young defensemen.
I'm not interested in the Islanders tanking this season. I want them to win as many games as possible. But having said that, the likely reality is that they'll be picking top 5 again. At some point, the organization is going to have to decide that it's time to start winning. Though the draft is part of the answer, it's not THE answer. Attitudes in management and ownership have to change.
And that scenario tests the patience of an already jaded fanbase. I mean, we've already lost three posters in the past month, dire times...dire times.
Yes, dire times indeed. We're all suffering from battered spouse syndrome when it comes to this team. It's a broken record, 'PATIENCE'. I love this team and I will always stay loyal to them, but it's been difficult.
I'll be very disappointed if the Islanders go Russian in this draft. Talented? Yes. But the Russians are scary and temperamental. Some of the greatest Russians are no different, Alex Ovechkin has proven difficult, Ilya Kovalchuk has proven difficult, and does Evgeni Malkin even speak English yet?
If we stay where we are, and I don't want to, but if we're picking in the top 5, I'm looking D. I don't know what the Islanders are doing, but I'm looking D. Watching Matthew Dumba on youtube, wow! I love what I see. He skates well, is a great open ice hitter, and has offensive upside. I'm looking very forward to seeing Ryan Murray at the WJCs in about 10 days. I also like Martin Frk, and Flip Forsberg is getting a lot of attention, but I've never seen him play.
In general, there's a reasonable chance that a Russian won't go first. The Columbus Blue Jackets are surely jaded by the experience with Nikita Filatov, who was supposed to be an atypical Russian in the respect that he was hungry for the NHL. The Anaheim Ducks probably want to get that dynamite partner for Cam Fowler. The Hurricanes, I would say, are likely to go with Yakupov if they pick first... especially since they have something of a dim view on young defensemen.
I'm not interested in the Islanders tanking this season. I want them to win as many games as possible. But having said that, the likely reality is that they'll be picking top 5 again. At some point, the organization is going to have to decide that it's time to start winning. Though the draft is part of the answer, it's not THE answer. Attitudes in management and ownership have to change.
I feel ya bro. I die a little every time this team loses a game, but what can you do? Just hope for a better tomorrow. My loyalty will never waver though.
With that said, things do not look good this season. The draft is the only way we can improve this team. The other avenues of upgrading the team don't seem realistic right now.
As for the Russian bias - I get what you're saying, but none of us know how things will play out. Yakupov and Grigorenko could be Filatov 2.0, but there is no way to know that now. They are just super talents that can surely help this team. As easily as the can go dark side, they can also become Jedi's. We will never know until it happens.
I LOVE Dumba just as much as you. I've been talking him up for a little while now. I haven't seen much of Murray, but he has to be an option if we are in position to draft him. Forsberg intrigues me more than anyone else in this draft. He is so unknown and the little that I've dug up on him, wow. I posted a video of him earlier in this thread where he scored 2 goals in a game and you can see that this kid oozes talent. He's a gamebreaker and I wouldn't be surprised if he kills it at the WJC.
I feel ya bro. I die a little every time this team loses a game, but what can you do? Just hope for a better tomorrow. My loyalty will never waver though.
With that said, things do not look good this season. The draft is the only way we can improve this team. The other avenues of upgrading the team don't seem realistic right now.
As for the Russian bias - I get what you're saying, but none of us know how things will play out. Yakupov and Grigorenko could be Filatov 2.0, but there is no way to know that now. They are just super talents that can surely help this team. As easily as the can go dark side, they can also become Jedi's. We will never know until it happens.
I LOVE Dumba just as much as you. I've been talking him up for a little while now. I haven't seen much of Murray, but he has to be an option if we are in position to draft him. Forsberg intrigues me more than anyone else in this draft. He is so unknown and the little that I've dug up on him, wow. I posted a video of him earlier in this thread where he scored 2 goals in a game and you can see that this kid oozes talent. He's a gamebreaker and I wouldn't be surprised if he kills it at the WJC.
Yeah. The draft is almost always a mystery. Although, we can't prove things in advance, Russians scare the living begeezus out of me. They're so unpredictable. Are they going to play here? Are they going to play at home in Russia? Is playing North American Junior Hockey leverage for better deals back home? There are just too many question marks. I'm not questioning their talent, just their desires to play and win in the NHL.
Matthew Dumba, based on what I've seen in the limited youtube.com, he's everything you could want in a hockey player. He kind of reminds me of what Bryan Berard was supposed to be. He skates well, hits, and is offensive. I'd love to have him. I don't know where we're going to draft, or what direction, literally, Garth Snow and Charles Wang want to go. But seeing our glaring need on D, and you don't always draft for need, but Dumba and Ryan Murray are so highly regarded... I think that if they don't crawl out of their current position, they have to go with it... I think they do. My thoughts mean nothing.
I'm watching this show called, 'Call of the Wildman' on Animal Planet right now and this guy is nuts. He catches skunks/racoons/turtles/whatever with his bare hands. This guy, aptly named 'Turtleman' is psycho, but entertaining as hell. It's actually making me forget how bad our team is.
Back to the Draft... you're right BW, I'm sure there are enough Isles fans that have had so much experience leading up to the draft with lottery picks that we could probably start our own scouting service.
Nail with 2 more points tonight. He's seriously on a +2 PPG pace.
With Galchenyuk out, Yakupov's spent a lot of time this year on a line with center Charles Sarault. He's an undrafted 19-year old who the Sting acquired in the off-season from the Kingston Frontenacs.
Sarault's been quite a revelation for the Sting this year, sitting second overall in league scoring after Barrie's Tanner Pearson. He's a hard working player, responsible defensively, and has good playmaking ability, which meshes well with Yakupov's goal scoring touch. He's currently sitting at 14 goals and a league high 41 assists in 35 games.
Sarault reminds me a bit of Frans Nielsen. Not a big goal scorer, more known for his playmaking, but good positionally and very reliable in his own zone. So while playing with Yakupov is obviously going to benefit him and his offensive totals, I do think his defensive ability and passing skills has benefited Yakupov as well. He's a good enough passer to set Yakupov up, and is defensively strong enough to allow Yakupov to take chances in the offensive zone and cover for him on the defensive side.
I'm giving Sarault props because I've been a fan of his since his Kingston days. I don't like how he was utilized in Kingston, often being stuck on the 3rd or 4th line, despite the fact he worked his butt off every game and was arguably the most defensively sound forward on a roster filled with lazy, one dimensional primadonas. I knew all he needed was an opportunity to play with some talented players, and be given top six minutes, to flourish. This season, alongside Yakupov, Sarault's doing just that.
