I'd take Coburn ahead of Tom Gilbert and Keith Ballard on that list. That's it. Everyone else is ahead of Coburn. The man just simply isn't a good defenseman. He's got all the tools be a top 2 defender, but just doesn't have the smarts to put it all together on a full time basis. When Coburn finished up his first year in Philadelphia, he was on his way to becoming a star. When he got hit in the face with the puck in the Pittsburgh Eastern Final Series, that was it. It changed him and he's never been the same. He'll never get it back and the Flyers need to stop being patient with Coburn in thinking that he will. He should have been traded elsewhere by now.
I'm just going to assume you overlooked Hainsey and Komisarek...
I'd compare Coburn to Bieksa. Both bring a lot of special things to the ice, a great mix of speed and size, and the willingness to use both, plus some offensive presence. Neither just seem to put it altogether to become a superstar though. And I'd figured by now that playing with Pronger and Timonen would have molded him a little more by now.
Not buying it yet. I can respect a man's "sources", but one of our local beat leeches would have caught onto the story and tweeted something as well if they had news. I'll wait til it's official to celebrate.
Byfuglien, Dustin » D WIN 26 5 $5,200,000
20. Rozsival, Michal » D PHO 33 4 $5,000,000
21. Martin, Paul » D PIT 30 5 $5,000,000
22. Pronger, Chris » D PHI 37 7 $4,921,429
23. Bieksa, Kevin » D VAN 30 5 $4,600,000
24. Hainsey, Ron » D WIN 30 5 $4,500,000
25. Komisarek, Mike » D TOR 29 5 $4,500,000
26. Hamhuis, Dan » D VAN 28 6 $4,500,000
27. Pitkanen, Joni » D CAR 28 3 $4,500,000
28. Johnson, Jack » D LAK 24 7 $4,357,143
29. Volchenkov, Anton » D NJD 29 6 $4,250,000
30. Kaberle, Tomas » D CAR 33 3 $4,250,000
31. Liles, John-Michael » D TOR 30 4 $4,200,000
32. Ballard, Keith » D VAN 28 6 $4,200,000
33. Jovanovski, Ed » D FLA 35 4 $4,125,000
34. Streit, Mark » D NYI 33 5 $4,100,000
35. Regehr, Robyn » D BUF 31 5 $4,020,000
36. Giordano, Mark » D CGY 28 5 $4,020,000
37. Gilbert, Tom » D EDM 28 6 $4,000,000
38. Whitney, Ryan » D EDM 28 6 $4,000,000
39. Meszaros, Andrej » D PHI 26 6 $4,000,000
40. Zidlicky, Marek » D MIN 34 3 $4,000,000
41. Michalek, Zbynek » D PIT 28 5 $4,000,000
42. Ehrhoff, Christian » D BUF 29 10 $4,000,000
43. Staal, Marc » D NYR 24 5 $3,975,000
44. Wideman, Dennis » D WAS 28 4 $3,937,500
I don't see a problem with throwing Coburn right into that group. There's a chunk that are better than Coburn, there's a chunk that are worse than Coburn. There's a chunk that are underpaid, there's a chunk that are overpaid.
Well first of all you are changing the goal posts. First you claimed Coburn is worth $4.5M and then even mentioned $4.75M. As I said, every single defenseman on that list making at least $4.5M were better offensively than Coburn was when they signed their deals except Komisarek.
In fact almost every person on that list is better offensively than Coburn. The only pure defenseman dmen other than Komi are Volchenkov, Regehr, and Michalek. I don't think Coburn is as good Volchenkov and Regehr and I wouldn't even pay them $4M+.
I'm just going to assume you overlooked Hainsey and Komisarek...
I'd compare Coburn to Bieksa. Both bring a lot of special things to the ice, a great mix of speed and size, and the willingness to use both, plus some offensive presence. Neither just seem to put it altogether to become a superstar though. And I'd figured by now that playing with Pronger and Timonen would have molded him a little more by now.
Bieksa has put it together though. He has been superb for Vancouver for the past four seasons now. I'll take Bieksa any day of the week over Coburn.
Paul Martin at 26: 305 GP - 19 G - 99 A - 118 P - +24
Braydon Coburn at 26: 393 GP - 26 G - 88 A - 114 P - +31
Also because the two above are known for their offensive play...so we're comparing their offensive play. Awesome.
Martin wasn't signed coming off his age 26 season. He was signed 3 years later.
Martin also wasn't on a downward trend through 26 like Coburn.
Coburn
36, 28, 19, 16.
Martin
24, 37, 26, 32, 33, 11 (in 22 games).
The point continues to go right over your head. My point is that the defenders that get the big bucks usually play a two-way game. Martin does. Coburn does not. It's a fairly simple concept to understand. Defenders with offensive ability to go along with their defense are more valuable than strictly defensive dmen alone. Martin was paid for the 30+ points Pittsburgh was hoping to get alone with his defense. You're not getting that from Coburn.
Defensive dmen have their place, but they should not be getting big bucks. A #4 defensive defenseman who is unable to anchor a pair isn't worth the $4.5-$4.75M you were originally trying to claim he is worth.
Bieksa has put it together though. He has been superb for Vancouver for the past four seasons now. I'll take Bieksa any day of the week over Coburn.
I would take Bieksa over Coburn as well. But, Bieksa has not been as consistent as you seem to think. There have been times even this season where Vancouver fans have been questioning his worth.
Bieksa has put it together though. He has been superb for Vancouver for the past four seasons now. I'll take Bieksa any day of the week over Coburn.
He really hasn't. Bieksa's been offensively snake-bitten, defensively inconsistent, and unlucky with injuries. He's also been generously paid for all his short-comings.
Martin wasn't signed coming off his age 26 season. He was signed 3 years later.
Martin also wasn't on a downward trend through 26 like Coburn.
Coburn
36, 28, 19, 16.
Martin
24, 37, 26, 32, 33, 11 (in 22 games).
The point continues to go right over your head. My point is that the defenders that get the big bucks usually play a two-way game. Martin does. Coburn does not. It's a fairly simple concept to understand. Defenders with offensive ability to go along with their defense are more valuable than strictly defensive dmen alone. Martin was paid for the 30+ points Pittsburgh was hoping to get alone with his defense. You're not getting that from Coburn.
Defensive dmen have their place, but they should not be getting big bucks. A #4 defensive defenseman who is unable to anchor a pair isn't worth the $4.5-$4.75M you were originally trying to claim he is worth.
Coburn also gets significantly less power play time in comparison to Martin. I just did a quick search but I think that I saw that Martin averages over 3 minutes a game in pp time as opposed to Coburn who gets almost zero. I'm not saying he would turn into some awesome two way d man if given that time, but I bet he would pick up an extra ten to fifteen points a season and that would put him into Martin's point total range. Regardless, with the inflation of contracts that have been handed out to defensemen in the past couple of seasons, you would have to expect that Coburn is going to get at least 4 million per year.
This is finally what convinces you of this? I can't think of a contract Homer has made that isn't idiotic. Think of Shelley! However, to be fair, there are a lot of GMs who have signed players to even more idiotic contracts.
This is finally what convinces you of this? I can't think of a contract Homer has made that isn't idiotic. Think of Shelley! However, to be fair, there are a lot of GMs who have signed players to even more idiotic contracts.
Coburn also gets significantly less power play time in comparison to Martin. I just did a quick search but I think that I saw that Martin averages over 3 minutes a game in pp time as opposed to Coburn who gets almost zero. I'm not saying he would turn into some awesome two way d man if given that time, but I bet he would pick up an extra ten to fifteen points a season and that would put him into Martin's point total range. Regardless, with the inflation of contracts that have been handed out to defensemen in the past couple of seasons, you would have to expect that Coburn is going to get at least 4 million per year.
The reason Coburn doesn't get any powerplay time is because he can't get a shot on net, sucks at keeping the puck in the zone on attempted clears (and tough passes), and can't really be trusted not to do something stupid with the puck. Anything over 4 is overpayment for a guy who at this point in his career is inconsistent and has little offensive upside.
The reason Coburn doesn't get any powerplay time is because he can't get a shot on net, sucks at keeping the puck in the zone on attempted clears (and tough passes), and can't really be trusted not to do something stupid with the puck. Anything over 4 is overpayment for a guy who at this point in his career is inconsistent and has little offensive upside.
You described Matt Carle.
Carle can hold the point better on the powerplay and can crash the net. Other than that, Carle makes worse decisions on the breakout passes, can't skate with the puck as well as Coburn, and doesn't have any kind of shot on the PP. Carle is not exactly a great powerplay defenseman. In fact, he's terrible.
Like 320 hours after Eklund reported it a beat writer has finall said something about it... but he only said that hockeybuzz is reporting a Coburn signing
Hockeybuzz is reporting #Flyers D Braydon Coburn, UFA after 2011-12 season, is close to signing multi-year contract.
-RandyJMiller
