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**** you Khabibulin. Habs lose 3-1.

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Old
11-09-2011, 12:50 PM
  #301
Marchy79
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Originally Posted by peate View Post
I think you pretty much nailed it. The players are not happy playing this antiquated system, they are nervous and making bad decisions. If you've ever worked for a lousy boss, you now how they must feel showing up for work, the heart is just not in it.
That's exactly it... furthermore, he was given pro grade snipers, and tells them to be freakin careful out there... I hate to say it, but that's unfortuntely not how hockey works. You gotta work on your skills and attributes.

I can see this team's strength is it's overall depth. Pound for pound, I'd be willing to take my 4 lines against anyone's... But they gotta be let loose, and be ferocious.
Yes there will be mistakes... that happens... There will be way more chances for capitalizing too however.

We have 3 centermen, and a fourth on the roster who can minimally get 40 points... 2 can get way more than that for sure, a third, IMO can get a bit above it... We have 5 top 6 wingers, and even a few options in the minors to try here and there...

We even have a strong group of bottom 6 players, & a decent group of defencemen who are a BIT green (exposed due to the injury situation)... But otherwise talented...

And even a world class goalie, who can give us a chance to win...

Man I'd seriously LOVE to see a version of Quinn's offensive run and gun with our squad... Even if it's not Quinn doing the coaching... Just something based off of it. The habs would EASILY be an exciting team in contention for the cup IMO.

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11-09-2011, 01:37 PM
  #302
Ollie Williams
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
No need to watch the games and determine how the Oilers play, a simple glance at the stat sheet contains all the information you need. I can see that thinking for yourself makes you uncomfortable, so I won't ask you to do any.
I would suggest you follow your own advice there... Blind hate clouds your judgement. In your case, thinking plain and simple would be a good first step. After this crucial first step is accomplished, I am willing to go through the more complicated things you cannot grasp. Seeing your previous posts, the first step will take a couple of months at the very least to complete. Good luck.

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11-09-2011, 02:02 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
DD doesn't belong on a top6 and he doesn't have the tools to be on a checking line. Where does he fit?
3rd line is perfect for him. You can control his matchups 5 on 5 and he can help PP and maybe PK. Give him Eller and AK who have size and the skill to keep up with him offensively.

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11-09-2011, 02:26 PM
  #304
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Unfortunetely, the game's result is what I was expecting: a super game by Khabibulin. The Habs forwards stayed far and shot from too far. They had to really clog the crease to beat that guy.

The rest of the Edmonton's line up just played well enough to win it.

Stop the Weber experiment at forward, please.

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11-09-2011, 02:29 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Unfortunetely, the game's result is what I was expecting: a super game by Khabibulin. The Habs forwards stayed far and shot from too far. They had to really clog the crease to beat that guy.

The rest of the Edmonton's line up just played well enough to win it.

Stop the Weber experiment at forward, please.
I'd like to see the diagram of the shots on net, I'd venture to say that 30 to 40% of them were from 15 feet in. We definitely generated a lot of chances 5 on 5 but failed to capitalize...on the PP for the most part we didn't get enough quality shots, maybe 1 or 2 pretty good PP's and 4 bad ones.

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11-09-2011, 02:35 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'd like to see the diagram of the shots on net, I'd venture to say that 30 to 40% of them were from 15 feet in..
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400046954

Press "close".

Shot location was not the issue. Most of the time shot location is just a knee-jerk explanation for low shooting percentage.

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Old
11-09-2011, 02:36 PM
  #307
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Nobody is expecting DD to be our next 2nd line center in the next few years but I wouldn't be so hard on the guy this season. He's replacing Gomez and I think he did very decently. His line is probably our most consistent line since Gomez is out.

Of course he's not the ideal 2nd line center but he was far from bad as a Gomez replacement. At least, he is much more productive than Gomez.
Then we agree. I was not a DD believer, but he has done better than I expected and I have to applaud him for his play so far.

p.s. Gomez is not my ideal top 2 lines center either

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11-09-2011, 02:37 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'd like to see the diagram of the shots on net, I'd venture to say that 30 to 40% of them were from 15 feet in. We definitely generated a lot of chances 5 on 5 but failed to capitalize...on the PP for the most part we didn't get enough quality shots, maybe 1 or 2 pretty good PP's and 4 bad ones.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400046954

A lot of good chances inside the faceoff dot.

edit: Beaten to it.

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Old
11-09-2011, 02:39 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I'm not sure if he's in my Top-6 either. But saying the kid can't play in this league is completely ridiculous, as far as my opinion goes.
Cool.

I have repeated it many times, a team is like a puzzle and the current Habs puzzle needs a certain piece. DD is too much like the other pieces the Habs already have.

He will do fine in another situation.

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Old
11-09-2011, 04:06 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Cool.

I have repeated it many times, a team is like a puzzle and the current Habs puzzle needs a certain piece. DD is too much like the other pieces the Habs already have.

He will do fine in another situation.
Yes, but the question is, does he make more sense than who he is in competition against?

who is it?

Pleks is an awesome 2 way centerman. He's #1 on this team, simply by being the best and most trusted one of the lot. ALL others go after Pleks, at least right now they do.

That leaves Gomez, Desharnais, Eller, and Nokelainen.

We know that Nokelainen is a pretty decent staple for a fourth line Centerman.

Is Desharnais third in terms of value to this team out of Gomez, himself and Eller?
I personally dont think so. I have learned by watching him that yes, he costs us some games, and CAN be outplayed (ahem, hence why he's a SECOND LINER potential wise now) But he can still pump in some goals, and is the MOST creative over a period of 3//4 a season in Martin's system.

natey is right, Desharnais played awesome in the Boston series. Eller played well too... Gomez had a great first game, and was playing chess the rest of the way.

Career wise, Gomez is a former Multi-champion... There arent many of those, and thats why IMO he's been given such a long leash. Management wants him to get inspired again, and play some great hockey in Montreal. 31 is too young to say it's all gone. But he has been the lowest performer of the three, espescially with that 7.5 price tag. He has to realize he's got to pull up his socks. You know what I thought he would think about ALL SUMMER? 'If I got 5 POINTS out of all that ice time in the Bean town series, we wouldnt have Boston Champs.'

Eller and Desi IMO are the right now... Gomez has to prove he can perform at a higher level than these two now IMO... Because 1 assist in 6 games didnt cut it, not when Desi is near .7 ppg, and Eller is up and coming, with a big man 2 way game...

If we have Gomez playing to his level, this team SHOULD NOT be worried about scoring goals. That's the case with this team.

The negative factor of having youngsters like Desi & Eller is they can sometimes be outplayed (i.e. Edmonton game)... That's where IMO Gomez would have excelled.

This Centerman situation is definately coming to a hilt IMO... Somethings gotta be done.

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Old
11-09-2011, 04:26 PM
  #311
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We can't say that was a phenomanal defensive game, when they had an 0/7 powerplay, that finished -1, and a 5 on 5 game that finished -1 (albeit an empty netter, but it's not so much the empty netter as much as it was the late game giveaway of the game... again).

This team is being outcoached. There is no trick up the sleeve working in our favour in ANY given night. There's LOTS of talent there... but the guys are throwing the puck away in the SLOT so consistently, that IMO they MUST be told to shoot... But it looks like that's not happening. We have the tools to be a great team. They aren't gelling the right way...

IMO Kirk Muller supporters have a tonne of ammo right now.

Im not on the firing squad... But man, Jacques has to PROVE he's relevant anymore... I mean, I think I can still count the smart moves from behin the bench on one hand...

And with the whole Darche thing... He is STRUGGLING BADLY! He's not doing anything out there. In order to flat out be successful, we need an entire team effort out there. Our key guys are for keeping the puck out, but we have a front end that IMO could fly if given the chance... We are stuck in this responsible trapping system, with offensive weapons, and the incorrect defensive players in play.

I think this is why we look at guys and say this or that.
This is also why our guys dont overachieve here. There is a literal .30 PPG drop coming to Montreal.
It's seen in Cammalleri, Gomez, IMO Plekanec even...

Martins does not ride his guys... He doesnt IMO relate to them very well.

Anybody who can remember so vividly the Battle of Ontario wars, when Quinn v. Martins was happening quite often... Martins system was obliterated by the open concept system of Quinns run & gun offence, year in, year out.

We Have to be more difficult to play against. He HAS to make it happen.
I agree with yo 100%, but we did have a great game defensively. We aren't expected to shutout every opponent. Our D gave our offense a chance to win and we didn't capitalize on anything. I agree that martin needs to make some small changes like taking Pleks off the point on the PP and take darche off the PP. I just find that Martin is very stubborn and tends to stick to what worked in the past. He needs to focus on the present but instead he makes zero adjustments.

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Old
11-09-2011, 04:33 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
I agree with yo 100%, but we did have a great game defensively. We aren't expected to shutout every opponent. Our D gave our offense a chance to win and we didn't capitalize on anything. I agree that martin needs to make some small changes like taking Pleks off the point on the PP and take darche off the PP. I just find that Martin is very stubborn and tends to stick to what worked in the past. He needs to focus on the present but instead he makes zero adjustments.
That's exactly it, the problem is, that it costs us in performance, and in the Wins department.

He did ONCE this year, a successful adjustment (against Ottawa)... It's not enough in the speed of the NHL...

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Old
11-09-2011, 05:23 PM
  #313
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Not postng this because the Habs lost... but Kostitsyn isn't able to play, so JM dresses an extra defender. So far, so good, Weber has played forward after all... but why the hell play Blunden for 0:44 seconds in a game where you're already missing forwards? Unreal. After Subban is hammered by Peckham, why not reply by sending Blunden out to answer with a hit of his own??

Win or loose, I hate JM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400046954

A lot of good chances inside the faceoff dot.

edit: Beaten to it.
Habs had two shots on net in their first 5 PP chances. That's terrible. Why Darche is there is beyond logic, and you had to feel bad for Plekanec, playing out of position and coughing up the puck for the short-handed goal.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 11-09-2011 at 05:30 PM. Reason: merge
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Old
11-09-2011, 05:47 PM
  #314
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We have to learn how to finish and work on that PP... our 5 on 5 play has been really good.

Pacs is 4th in the NHL in ES goals.

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Old
11-09-2011, 05:50 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Not postng this because the Habs lost... but Kostitsyn isn't able to play, so JM dresses an extra defender. So far, so good, Weber has played forward after all... but why the hell play Blunden for 0:44 seconds in a game where you're already missing forwards? Unreal. After Subban is hammered by Peckham, why not reply by sending Blunden out to answer with a hit of his own??

Win or loose, I hate JM.



Habs had two shots on net in their first 5 PP chances. That's terrible. Why Darche is there is beyond logic, and you had to feel bad for Plekanec, playing out of position and coughing up the puck for the short-handed goal.

I agree with this post. I was at the game and came out of there disgruntled. First, Subban, Cole, Eller, Patches and Price all worked their butts off and all deserved better results. I was impressed.

That's where it ends. Gionta was by far the worst player on the ice. He didn't engage, he was out of position, he didn't back check, he was easily pushed off the puck and he wouldn't go to the net (but was quick to skate to the corner and then disappear)

Thomas Plekanec was equally as bad. He assisted on 3 goals. Was slow and was the last one to get involved in the play all game.

I never thought size was an issue, but we are too small with Desharnais, Cammy, Gionta, pleks, gomer and darche (who plays small)

combine that with the fact we have too many journey men - darche, moen, blunden, noki,

then mix in a coach and a system that is perhaps one of the weakest combinations in the league and we have a long season a head of us.

Last night, when we were trailing, late in the 3rd, JM kept putting Darche out on the ice.

Head shake.

We need some help with this team. Badly.

(don't get me wrong, I am going to cheer my ass off and watch every game, but we better find a new direction.)

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11-09-2011, 06:34 PM
  #316
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Who would you place in Darche's stead on the PP (other than AK46 for now since he isn't cleared to be back into play)?

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11-09-2011, 07:05 PM
  #317
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Stop the Weber experiment at forward, please.
And stop putting Pleks on the point for the power play. He doesn't get to do what he does best during the PP... playing on the half wall. Even without Markov we have four defensemen that can shoot the puck... Subban, Weber, Diaz and Emelin.

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Old
11-09-2011, 09:46 PM
  #318
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Who would you place in Darche's stead on the PP (other than AK46 for now since he isn't cleared to be back into play)?
Eller. He may or may not be as good around the net, but at least it adds another player who can hold onto the puck, and make some passes at least.

I'd go with:

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Cammalleri
Weber-Subban

Gionta-Eller-Cole
Diaz-Emelin

I don't know where DD fits in unless you put him in Eller's place, or you play a forward on the point.

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Old
11-09-2011, 09:49 PM
  #319
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Who would you place in Darche's stead on the PP (other than AK46 for now since he isn't cleared to be back into play)?
Lars Eller.

Has size to screen the goalie, has good stick skills and is a very strong skater and passer.

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Old
11-09-2011, 09:53 PM
  #320
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Who would you place in Darche's stead on the PP (other than AK46 for now since he isn't cleared to be back into play)?
Eller.

He is quite good around the net. He can find and go to that open spot to have a good shot on net.

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Old
11-09-2011, 09:57 PM
  #321
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Eller. He may or may not be as good around the net, but at least it adds another player who can hold onto the puck, and make some passes at least.

I'd go with:

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Cammalleri
Weber-Subban

Gionta-Eller-Cole
Diaz-Emelin

I don't know where DD fits in unless you put him in Eller's place, or you play a forward on the point.
Switch Gionta and DD.
Switch Kostitsyn for Emelin.

I'm sold.

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Old
11-09-2011, 10:29 PM
  #322
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After Scott Gomez, Brian Gionta is the next in line that needs to go !!

He is pure garbage, is joke and an insult to all the previous captains that this historical organization had.

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11-09-2011, 10:32 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Switch Gionta and DD.
Switch Kostitsyn for Emelin.

I'm sold.
I overlooked the fact that Diaz and Emelin probably won't be in the same lineup together most nights as well. As long as Kostitsyn can actually hit the net with his slapshot, which he's had trouble with in the past. Although everyone on our team is this year.

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11-10-2011, 12:20 AM
  #324
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When everyone is healthy (which never happens) I would like to see:

Cammalleri-Plekanec-Cole
Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
Desharnais-Eller-Kostitsyn
Moen-Nokelainen-Blunden

And role the four lines..that fourth line can play hockey. Can't limit our best players abilities..and that unfortunately is what is happening.

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11-10-2011, 12:23 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Erika EllerWick View Post
After Scott Gomez, Brian Gionta is the next in line that needs to go !!

He is pure garbage, is joke and an insult to all the previous captains that this historical organization had.
I believe I speak for a lot of us when I say: Holy ****

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