OK, I'll try again. He's playing Renney's system to a T and he's excelling under it. That's about all I can tell you.
I don't know. I dont think I can agree with that. I just see him flopping around a lot, giving up pucks. I'll admit I missed the game tonight, but I watched the hi-lites, and I think I counted two 2-on-1's for Montreal that he directly caused. I've stuck with Gagner since the beginning, but it's starting to waver a lot.
I'd like to see him at center. It would be a shame if we don't give him a look at his actual position before shipping him out. He's easily capable of being a 50 point player. He's put up that sort of production (sadly injuries have hampered him) every year. He doesn't look like a fit on the wing to me. And maybe I'm just making excuses, but Gagner has never looked this ineffectual (despite still making the odd nice play) at center.
So yeah... I guess I do think he fits. You don't give up on a 22 year old centerman who puts up points at a 50 point pace his whole career after a shaky 8 games playing out of position after being sidelined for months and months.
I'd be inclined to agree that Sam's skillset, effectiveness, the role he's playing here and relative trade value are conspiring against him as an Oiler but I don't think he's as bad as what's being said here.
I see the op is burning up that his pet PRV was sat over Gagner
I guess you must've magically missed the many debates about Gagner's future here from well before the season started and long before Paajarvi became a healthy scratch tonight, or perhaps you're just sore that it looks like you were wrong and Gagner is on his way out of town the second that Tambo gets a half decent offer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by the word
Gagner's playing solid hockey and has bought into Renney's system, completely. No complaints from me, Gagner is a big part of the team right now.
A part of the worst line on the team and the 3rd or 4th best offensive player on our 2nd PP unit, yeah, our fate as a team this year is solely in his hands
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
I'd like to see him at center. It would be a shame if we don't give him a look at his actual position before shipping him out. He's easily capable of being a 50 point player. He's put up that sort of production (sadly injuries have hampered him) every year. He doesn't look like a fit on the wing to me. And maybe I'm just making excuses, but Gagner has never looked this ineffectual (despite still making the odd nice play) at center.
So yeah... I guess I do think he fits. You don't give up on a 22 year old centerman who puts up points at a 50 point pace his whole career after a shaky 8 games playing out of position after being sidelined for months and months.
Yeah, but over who? RNH: Not a chance. Horcoff: Not a chance. Belanger: Not a chance. Lander: possibly. But that's limited 4th line duty. Would he be better than Lander? I really don't think so. And I think that's kind of the point of this thread. Who do you play him over? If no one, how does he fit with the team, or have a spot? Keeping him for injuries might be a good idea, but that's putting an asset that may have some value in the stands, depreciating in value.
I think RNH making the team sealed his fate. Otherwise I think the centres would currently be: Horcoff-Gagner-Belanger-Lander.
I'd like to see him at center. It would be a shame if we don't give him a look at his actual position before shipping him out. He's easily capable of being a 50 point player. He's put up that sort of production (sadly injuries have hampered him) every year. He doesn't look like a fit on the wing to me. And maybe I'm just making excuses, but Gagner has never looked this ineffectual (despite still making the odd nice play) at center.
So yeah... I guess I do think he fits. You don't give up on a 22 year old centerman who puts up points at a 50 point pace his whole career after a shaky 8 games playing out of position after being sidelined for months and months.
If he stays at center, who do you see as his wingers going forward? Also I'm not sure where people are judging him solely on his 8 games this year, in my case at least it's a large body of work and looking at the team's depth chart.
renney is caught up in RNHeaver Fever and its effecting the rest of our team ie: omark, mps, gagner, eager. gagner has great faceoff stats and plays with heart and passion and is extremely offensively talented. the role of the line all depends on the coaching system and the frequency that the line is put out on the ice is dependant upon territorial requirements like offensive and defensive faceoffs pk pp etc. until the nuge gets better at faceoffs his line should not see more than a small fraction of faceoffs. sure you can always change on the fly and if he wants more ice time thats how they should do it,. but for now it would b wise to have a line like this:
smyth gagner hemsky
hall hopkins eberle
mps horcoff jones
eager belanger petrell
we keep this lineup and give horc extra ice time to pad his stats until we can trade him to promote lander.
So far this year I've backed Barker and Gagner as being important pieces to this teams success. Sooner or later even the most obstinate will agree with me.
So far this year I've backed Barker and Gagner as being important pieces to this teams success. Sooner or later even the most obstinate will agree with me.
I agree with Barker. He's been a pleasant surprise. Gagner is done, IMO, with this team. I like the guy, but it seems his big fans completely overlook his deficiencies, and he has a lot of them.
Yeah, but over who? RNH: Not a chance. Horcoff: Not a chance. Belanger: Not a chance. Lander: possibly. But that's limited 4th line duty. Would he be better than Lander? I really don't think so. And I think that's kind of the point of this thread. Who do you play him over? If no one, how does he fit with the team, or have a spot? Keeping him for injuries might be a good idea, but that's putting an asset that may have some value in the stands, depreciating in value.
I think RNH making the team sealed his fate. Otherwise I think the centres would currently be: Horcoff-Gagner-Belanger-Lander.
RNH
Horcoff
Gagner
Belanger
Lander deserves an opportunity to develop a sound offensive game that he wont get playing 4th line minutes all year. He'll get that opportunity in the AHL and I think it is important for his development.
And I love Belanger's game, but I don't think it's a complete coincidence that Paajarvi and Gagner have struggled offensively while playing with him. Throw him on a line with Eager and Petrell and I'm thrilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil
If he stays at center, who do you see as his wingers going forward? Also I'm not sure where people are judging him solely on his 8 games this year, in my case at least it's a large body of work and looking at the team's depth chart.
I've been hoping for a Paajarvi-Gagner-Hemsky line all year. And I know you've had your reservations with Gagner for awhile now, but I haven't had those same reservations. As for team depth chart I see a massive whole in the 2nd line spot with absolutely no one going to fill it other than Gagner. Unless of course you're happy with Horcoff being this teams #2 center for the foreseeable future.
The only way I'd be prepared to move out Gagner is if you can get an upgrade over him at the center position. I just don't see that happening so I'd just as soon keep him and allow him to continue to develop. I'd absolutely not move him for picks/mediocre prospects.
I agree with Barker. He's been a pleasant surprise. Gagner is done, IMO, with this team. I like the guy, but it seems his big fans completely overlook his deficiencies, and he has a lot of them.
I just follow the games and call them as I see them.
I guess you must've magically missed the many debates about Gagner's future here from well before the season started and long before Paajarvi became a healthy scratch tonight, or perhaps you're just sore that it looks like you were wrong and Gagner is on his way out of town the second that Tambo gets a half decent offer?
A part of the worst line on the team and the 3rd or 4th best offensive player on our 2nd PP unit, yeah, our fate as a team this year is solely in his hands
Can you please quote any reputable media source on this. Or because you make a thread and Haters agree you think its reality This Hf is a funny place at times
Can you please quote any reputable media source on this. Or because you make a thread and Haters agree you think its reality This Hf is a funny place at times
I'm not a hater. I logistically think there is no room for him. I think that can be rationalized without being a hater, so I would use a little more finesse with your words--kind of sounds a bit like trolling to me.
I think he can be, too. But as I mentioned, the weak spots...oh the weak spots. Sloppy skater, balance issues, bad defensively, slow, small, can't win puck battles. I think he gives up more than he adds, even if he does become a 50-60 point guy. I'd rather stick with a RNH-Horcoff-Belanger-Lander set down the middle. All guys are strong on their feet, can win battles, and are very good defensively, which is what a centre should be. Let Hall, Eberle, Hemsky, Smyth and Jones score a good chunk of the goals. These centres can take care of business in the defensive and neutral zone, and chip in (especially RNH).
There was a shift in the 3d period where Lander held onto the puck along the boards for good 20 seconds with the defenseman hanging on his back. That's the kind of strength Gagner needs to develop if he wants to have a long NHL career.
So far this year I've backed Barker and Gagner as being important pieces to this teams success. Sooner or later even the most obstinate will agree with me.
How important is a guy like Gagner when he's playing on the 3rd line? I think there are guys who are better suited to be 3rd liners who have less trade value than Sam has. Darren Helm maybe?
For Sam to move up here he has to surpass Hemsky, Eberle, Hall, Smyth, Horc or RNH and that's not looking very likely. Sam's not even needed as a depth player because Jones has proven to be a more than adequate fill-in on the 2nd line on this team. Omark can run a pp better than Sam can if the need arises and he has less trade value.
I think that if Gagner had esp he'd feel the eyes of gm's all over his every move.
Hate to say it, but I think we've ruined his development. You can just see he has no confidence or creativity any more and seemingly no chemistry with any one either.
I would swap him for Turris and see if we can't squeeze more juice from him. I think both guys need a change of scenery.
There was a shift in the 3d period where Lander held onto the puck along the boards for good 20 seconds with the defenseman hanging on his back. That's the kind of strength Gagner needs to develop if he wants to have a long NHL career.
If that was Gagner, he flops down within 5 seconds. I've seen it thousands of times--so many times I can picture it perfectly in my head. His balance, leg strength, and willingness to battle all need a big improvement if he wants to be a legit top 6 centre on a contending team, just to name a few things.
Man I really don't want to give up on Gagner. I'd compare him to Corey Perry, who also took like 4 years to really get going, but Gagner just isn't giving me that sort of vibe this season. He has no spot (or business) on the first line, and the second line of Smyth, Horc and Hemmer with Jones to fill in for Hemmer is working just fine as a second line. Gagner isn't a checker so his role on the third line would be a bit limited, and from what I can recall, his PK ability isn't superb compared to Lander or Petrell.
I'm sure he has room to grow, but we can't freely send him to OKC, and our centre depth is actually sensible for once. I consider Gagner expendable right now, probably in favour of a defenceman that can step in right now. I'm not sure if Tamby will trade away our 1st rounder in 2012, but Gagner+ a 1st could net us a pretty good dman, especially from a team who still thinks Edmonton is going to be in the lottery again.
Hate to say it, but I think we've ruined his development.
I would swap him for Turris and see if we can't squeeze more juice from him. I think both guys need a change of scenery.
Turris hasn't shown anything at any point in his career to suggest he is or ever will be a better player than Gagner. Factor in his ridiculous contract demands after a 25 point season and I wouldn't touch that deal with a 10 foot pole.
This Hf is a funny place at times
