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Old
11-09-2011, 02:36 PM
  #76
Winroba
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Originally Posted by SuperSaiyanBeastmode View Post
lol at anyone thinking kulemin would be main piece for Schneider. and an even more lol at that guy talking about an "on pace" kulemin is not equal to Schneider and Hodgson. Guess what? proven is better than on pace. 30 goals, baby. Can't argue with that(and no you really can't, so have fun.) I might do Schneider and Hodgson for Kulemin, but don't give me that it isn't enough from our side.
What about Cheechoo? 56 goals, baby!

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11-09-2011, 02:49 PM
  #77
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I don't see the Leafs interested enough in Schneider to give up what the Canucks would demand. Schneider won't be available for picks and prospects and unless/until Reimer proves he's not capable of being a quality starter (like Gustavsson has after all the hype he arrived with) the Leafs won't be desperate enough to give up the necessary value to get him.

From a Canuck POV though, if we could get Kulemin for Schneider, I'd do it... Would not add Hodgson though. Always thought he was a special player when the Canucks first drafted him, and he proving that now that he's finally healthy. I wouldn't deal him straight up for Kulemin right now - and I understand that value-wise alone Kulemin probably has more value right now.

If we could add Kulemin for Schneider, I'd do it. Would have to clear salary though and the only option really is Ballard (Booth won't be dealt this early). So maybe move Ballard to clear room (get a low cost #6 dman and/or temp. backup until Lack is ready next year)... Or a Schneider+Ballard deal for Kulemin+Aulie type...

Again, can't see the Leafs considering something like this unless Reimer proves he's not capable of being a quality long-term starter, which he hasn't yet. But for the Canucks, this is exactly the type of return I'd move Schneider for - Kulemin would be an excellent pickup, and his 2-way game would fit nicely into the Canucks system.. And IMO he has the hockey sense to fit better next to Kesler than Booth does.

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Old
11-09-2011, 02:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
1st for a backup???
Love how when it comes to trading with the Leafs fans every player you have is limited in their potential to their current role. Meanwhile every player they have is worth the peak of their potential.

Schneider for Kadri means trading a backup goalie for a first line player. Even though Schneider is much further along in his development than Kadri is.

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Old
11-09-2011, 03:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Based on their respective accomplishments, Reimer wouldn't be out of place asking for his autograph.
Don't necessarily agree that one goaltender will clearly be a better NHLer than the other, but that's ****ing funny.

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11-09-2011, 03:22 PM
  #80
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As a Leaf fan I'd love to have a Schneider and Reimer combo going forward. Not sure what the Canucks need though that the Leafs have...
If it is Kulemin I might be biased but I'd want something with Schneider coming back our way.
Trading Kulemin would leave a big hole to fill on the 2nd line for Toronto. He and Grabovski have such a good chemistry going on.

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Old
11-09-2011, 03:22 PM
  #81
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Leaf fans need to stop overreacting.

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Old
11-09-2011, 03:55 PM
  #82
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Canucks would probably do Schneider+ for Kulemin. Schneider and a 2nd, or possibly Schneider and Raymond as the rough building block.

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Old
11-09-2011, 03:56 PM
  #83
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The value is there, but I don't really want to trade Ginger Bricks for futures at this time. I'd trade him for something that helps now.

Who have you got for RHD and who's expendable? We don't need Rynnas/Scrivens/Monster due to Eddie Lack looking sharp in the AHL.

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Old
11-09-2011, 04:30 PM
  #84
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lol no. Reimer > Schneider and why would we give up a 1st?

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Old
11-09-2011, 04:34 PM
  #85
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Wow people. Schneider might end up being better than Reimer. Reimer might end up being better than Schneider.

But don't go throwing stats around to say Schneider is better than Reimer. In NHL stats, you know the ones that matter, Reimer is (slightly) better than Schneider in EVERY CATEGORY, without a cup contender in front of him. The sample size is too small to make a judgement, but if you absolutely have to make one right now, Reimer is not only better, but better across the board. Reimer isn't asking for any autographs from Schneider like someone posted earlier.

Schneider would be a great pickup but the leafs aren't trading Kulimen or a first in this draft for someone unproven. I know we have to give up value to get it, but it's a bad move if our team is worse after the trade. Our dispensable assets don't work with Vancouver because they're against the cap and have no serious holes in their line up... anyone know what LA needs?

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Old
11-09-2011, 04:35 PM
  #86
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Kulemin for Schneider and a 2nd, or Kulemin+ for Raymond, Schneider and a 2nd. Armstrong, Lombardi, even Komisarek I'd like as the +, but their cap hits make this infeasible for and unattractive too Canucks fans, and it would have to be someone experienced, no futures, and no rookies if we surrender Raymond.

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Old
11-09-2011, 05:58 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortSideFlick View Post

But don't go throwing stats around to say Schneider is better than Reimer. In NHL stats, you know the ones that matter, Reimer is (slightly) better than Schneider in EVERY CATEGORY, without a cup contender in front of him. The sample size is too small to make a judgement, but if you absolutely have to make one right now, Reimer is not only better, but better across the board. Reimer isn't asking for any autographs from Schneider like someone posted earlier.
I'm not sure how you're getting that Reimer's stats are slightly better when in fact they are slightly worse:
  • This year both have played 6 games. In 6 games, Schneider has a 0.917 SV% and 2.51 GAA. Reimer has a 0.912 SV% and 2.58 GAA. So slight edge to Schnieder.
  • Last year they played 25 games (Schneider) and 37 games (Reimer). Schneider was 0.928 and 2.23, Reimer was 0.921 and 2.60. Again, slight edge to Schnieder.
  • Prior to that, Reimer played only 44 games in the AHL over 3 seasons and 6 games in the ECHL. In his only extended playing streak, in 26 games for the Marlies, he had a 0.925 SV% and 2.25 GAA. During the same season, Schneider was 0.919 and 2.51 in over 60 games.

So the only period of time in which Reimer's stats were "slightly" better was his 26 games with the Marlies, and it is much harder to maintain a high level of play over 60 games compared to 26 - let alone the previous year when Cory Schneider's AHL numbers (.928 SV% 2.04 GAA) were way better than any numbers Reimer has ever posted in any league at any level.


The point here, and why I think that all things being equal, any GM in the league would easily choose Schnieder over Reimer is that these 113 game combined in the NHL, AHL and ECHL are all we have to judge Reimer on. There are so many goalies that have short periods of brilliant play and then disappear. Jose Thoedore won a Hart trophy after all. With Schneider you can see that he has performed at a high level through 3 seasons at BC, 3 seasons in the AHL, at the WJC's, and in the NHL. He is simply a much, much more accomplished goalie who has proven it at every level.

I'm not saying that Reimer is rubbish. I hope he gets healthy and we get a chance to see. But at this point, the smart money would have to be with Cory Schnieder.

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:11 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
What about Cheechoo? 56 goals, baby!
2nd fastest guy on our team, and just had 30 goals just last year, trumps cheechoo, by I don't know a million miles. Do you guy's really think your going to get kesler's ideal winger for Schneider+? C'mon man. Seriously, if you can somehow get kulemin from us, I really don't see how you don't win the cup, Booth-Kesler-Kulemin would be the most fast, physically punishing, defensively sound 2nd lines in a long time. Maybe if we didn't have reimer, but if kulemin is moved, he will probably moved with schenn for a #1 center which is a way bigger need than Schneider.

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:20 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Briecheeze View Post
Schneider has 41 games. I fail to see your point.

Everyone treats Schneider like he's a sure thing, but it's far from the truth.


And just how many of those 41 games did you seen him play ? Obviously not many.

Last year he was 16 wins 4 losses .929 2.23 gaa This is not a sure thing ?
Give your head a shake.

Vancouver and Toronto are not trading partners for Cory Schneider because the Leafs don't have what the Canucks will want and will get for Schneider ( or maybe Luongo ) Bob McKenzie said recently there will be teams lining up with offers and I believe he is correct.

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:26 PM
  #90
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As a Leafs fan...if I can get Schneider without losing much from my active roster I do it in a heartbeat.

That means using picks, or a guy like Kadri as the centrepiece.

Don't let your love affair with Reimer stop you from making this deal. Reims only looks good compared to the rest of the Leafs goalies. Statistically, he's in the bottom 3rd of the league and has been around there since his first month in which he lit it up.

Schneider has the potential to be the kind of goalie you build around, imo. And the only reason he'd be moveable is because of Lu.

I'd go so far as to say the Nucks would be making a huge mistake if they moved Schneider...but the thing is they have ANOTHER great goalie prospect behind him in Eddie Lack so they might not even miss a beat.

Come to think of it, it may be worth trading for Lack of Schneider...

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:30 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by makbeer View Post
As a Leafs fan...if I can get Schneider without losing much from my active roster I do it in a heartbeat.

That means using picks, or a guy like Kadri as the centrepiece.

Don't let your love affair with Reimer stop you from making this deal. Reims only looks good compared to the rest of the Leafs goalies. Statistically, he's in the bottom 3rd of the league and has been around there since his first month in which he lit it up.

Schneider has the potential to be the kind of goalie you build around, imo. And the only reason he'd be moveable is because of Lu.

I'd go so far as to say the Nucks would be making a huge mistake if they moved Schneider...but the thing is they have ANOTHER great goalie prospect behind him in Eddie Lack so they might not even miss a beat.

Come to think of it, it may be worth trading for Lack of Schneider...
Vancouver has done a complete 180 on the goaltending situation since the early 2000s. We have loaded ourselves up with great goaltenders. People may think Lu isn't awesome now, but his career in Vancouver has been elite and great so far.

I love Ginger Bricks as much as any Vancouver fan, but I really don't think he's the future of Vancouver goaltending unless he plans to resign for cheap and play back up for another couple years. I am, however, completely confident in Eddie Lack. He's huuuugeee and plays really low.

Lack will be around long after Schneider has become a superstar in his own right with a team that needs him more than us.

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:31 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by makbeer View Post
Come to think of it, it may be worth trading for Lack of Schneider...
If you have a Lack of Schneider...



You had definitely better be making a trade.


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Old
11-09-2011, 06:45 PM
  #93
thepuckmonster
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Originally Posted by R0bert0 Lu0ng0 View Post
If you have a Lack of Schneider...



You had definitely better be making a trade.



You've won 4 internets.

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Old
11-09-2011, 07:02 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
I'm not sure how you're getting that Reimer's stats are slightly better when in fact they are slightly worse:
  • This year both have played 6 games. In 6 games, Schneider has a 0.917 SV% and 2.51 GAA. Reimer has a 0.912 SV% and 2.58 GAA. So slight edge to Schnieder.
  • Last year they played 25 games (Schneider) and 37 games (Reimer). Schneider was 0.928 and 2.23, Reimer was 0.921 and 2.60. Again, slight edge to Schnieder.
  • Prior to that, Reimer played only 44 games in the AHL over 3 seasons and 6 games in the ECHL. In his only extended playing streak, in 26 games for the Marlies, he had a 0.925 SV% and 2.25 GAA. During the same season, Schneider was 0.919 and 2.51 in over 60 games.

So the only period of time in which Reimer's stats were "slightly" better was his 26 games with the Marlies, and it is much harder to maintain a high level of play over 60 games compared to 26 - let alone the previous year when Cory Schneider's AHL numbers (.928 SV% 2.04 GAA) were way better than any numbers Reimer has ever posted in any league at any level.


The point here, and why I think that all things being equal, any GM in the league would easily choose Schnieder over Reimer is that these 113 game combined in the NHL, AHL and ECHL are all we have to judge Reimer on. There are so many goalies that have short periods of brilliant play and then disappear. Jose Thoedore won a Hart trophy after all. With Schneider you can see that he has performed at a high level through 3 seasons at BC, 3 seasons in the AHL, at the WJC's, and in the NHL. He is simply a much, much more accomplished goalie who has proven it at every level.

I'm not saying that Reimer is rubbish. I hope he gets healthy and we get a chance to see. But at this point, the smart money would have to be with Cory Schnieder.
You'll forgive me if I don't place much trust in stats at the junior and minor levels, especially for goalies. The name Justin Pogge comes to mind, among others.

Reimer has put up better NHL numbers. Not in the six games you oh-so-helpfully decided to use as a selection to skew your point, but over their entire NHL career. Reimer has a better save percentage (.920 to .918), while Schneider has a better Goals Against (2.52 - 2.59). Reimer also has 4 shutouts to Schneider's 1, and a better winning percentage, any way you slice it.

Consider that Reimer has had the worse team and has played a starter's workload (back-to-back games, games against better teams, not against cherry-picked teams in the schedule), and I'd much rather have Reimer, thank you very much.

Not that I have anything against Schneider, or that I have anything against those that feel Schneider is the better goalie, because that's certainly a valid argument, and I'm not arguing about the value of Cory Schneider, but is the gap between Schneider and Reimer right now worth a Kulemin or a first round pick or a prospect like Kadri?

Hell no.

Leafs fans overreacting to this stretch of terrible goaltending need to stop making idiotic ideas for trades. There are much better fits for a Cory Schneider.

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Old
11-09-2011, 07:09 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Briecheeze View Post
but is the gap between Schneider and Reimer right now worth a Kulemin or a first round pick or a prospect like Kadri?
.



Not how trades work in the NHL, you would actually get to keep both of them.

The question is the gap between Schneider and Scrivens/Gus worth Kulemin or a 1st round pick.

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Old
11-09-2011, 07:12 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by VanJaysFan View Post


Not how trades work in the NHL, you would actually get to keep both of them.

The question is the gap between Schneider and Scrivens/Gus worth Kulemin or a 1st round pick.
Unfortunately, you only play one goalie at a time in the sport of hockey. This isn't Calvinball. A 1A/1B situation is a bit too much of a luxury.

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Old
11-09-2011, 07:32 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Briecheeze View Post
Reimer has put up better NHL numbers. Not in the six games you oh-so-helpfully decided to use as a selection to skew your point, but over their entire NHL career. Reimer has a better save percentage (.920 to .918),
If you're going to (rightfully) complain about selections skewing a comparison then it's probably worth mentioning that for Reimer "career stats" means last year and this year, whereas for Schneider it includes four seasons, the first of which he was forced into duty by a couple of goaltender injuries when he was clearly not ready for this league (save percentage was .038 lower than any other year thusfar). Omit that and you're back up to a 0.926 career save percentage.

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Old
11-09-2011, 07:32 PM
  #98
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How many times does it have to be said? Schneider won't be moved for futures, the Canucks are in a win now mode and won't trade Schneider unless a top 6 winger or top 3 defenceman is coming are way.

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Old
11-09-2011, 07:33 PM
  #99
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I can see Nonis reacquiring his old draft pick. I remember Nonis being high on him when the Canucks drafted him. And Nonis always said that he would grow the team from the goalie out.

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Old
11-09-2011, 09:06 PM
  #100
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Hodgson + Schneider + Ballard (salary dump)

for

Kadri + Gustavsson + Franson + 2nd


or


Hodgson + Schneider + 3RD

for

Kulemin + Franson


Last edited by DougGilmour93: 11-09-2011 at 09:14 PM.
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