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RE: doug maclean's comments on Kadri

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Old
11-10-2011, 02:42 AM
  #251
Ratboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Nazem Kadri is Nazem Kadri.

He's not Jeff Skinner, or Taylor Hall. He's Nazem Kadri.

He's his own prospect. The ability or rate of improvement that other prospects around the league show, has nothing to do with Kadri. There is no connection between the 2.

Prospects develop at different rates - the fact that Kadri hasn't made the NHL as a permanent star should not, in anyway, be held against him. Who cares if he's 21? He's got so many good years ahead of him.

If I was in charge, I'd make room for him on the roster somewhere on that 3rd line, but I'm not. I'm also completely satisfied with the team taking a patient approach with some of their prospects. As someone on his board said before the season started, no player has suffered from spending too much time in the AHL.
This is not guaranteed. He may have many mediocre years, or good for the AHL years. or good for the khl years. he was junk in the world juniors.

kadri is overrated, i believe this to be true. i will eat my virtual hat if he becomes a significant top 6 player for us.


Last edited by Ratboy: 11-10-2011 at 02:58 AM.
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11-10-2011, 06:49 AM
  #252
jimmycarter
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i would have traded him long ago personally. thats just me though.

actually i probably would have drafted tyler myers instead.

phanuef, myers, schenn, aulie, gardiner. look out cleveland.

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11-10-2011, 07:52 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Correct me if wrong though, they both also spent the 1st 2 years after their draft in junior.

They got drafted in 2003, played 2003-2004 in London and Calgary, and 2004-2005 was the lockout year. So they again played in London and Calgary.

So at the point Kadri has played 17 or 19 games this year, he'll be on pace with those guys in terms of draft year.
I'm actually all for kadri staying in the minors and developing down there. I was simply just proving that burke doesn't keep all his prospects down there for awhile as much as people think he does.

Edit:I'm wrong. Didn't read properly.


Last edited by cps230: 11-10-2011 at 08:07 AM.
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11-10-2011, 08:04 AM
  #254
anderson3133
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Originally Posted by jimmycarter View Post
i would have traded him long ago personally. thats just me though.

actually i probably would have drafted tyler myers instead.

phanuef, myers, schenn, aulie, gardiner. look out cleveland.
Kadri and Myers were drafted in two different years.

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11-10-2011, 08:05 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Ratboy View Post
This is not guaranteed. He may have many mediocre years, or good for the AHL years. or good for the khl years. he was junk in the world juniors.

kadri is overrated, i believe this to be true. i will eat my virtual hat if he becomes a significant top 6 player for us.
Are you seriously basing his potential on a 5 game tournament?

The kid dominates the playoffs for several consecutive years, plays fairly solid NHL hockey and yet this is where a conclusion is made?

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11-10-2011, 08:13 AM
  #256
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Honestly though, it is bull**** that Kadri is pushed aside for cream puffs like Connolly and Lombardi. There comes a time where you have a player like Kadri and you say to him "Just do your thing".

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11-10-2011, 08:25 AM
  #257
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The organization doesn't need to tell Kadri to 'do his thing.' Kadri needs to start doing the organization's thing.

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11-10-2011, 08:38 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycarter View Post
i would have traded him long ago personally. thats just me though.

actually i probably would have drafted tyler myers instead.

phanuef, myers, schenn, aulie, gardiner. look out cleveland.
we could have had myers if we didn't draft schenn as myers was taken in 7th i believe but no way we could have got both of them since kadri was drafted the following year.

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11-10-2011, 08:42 AM
  #259
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Kadri earned his spot on the team at camp but the injury obviously pushed him aside... he's done everything the team has asked of him.

He's improved his defensive game, makes quicker passes, less dangles... stronger on the puck.

Why is it some of you want to trade players when they're "struggling" (Not in Kadri's case).. but Grabo, Bozak, Schenn, list goes on.

Buffalo knows Myers will improve, Montreal knows with Subban, LA with Doughty, etc.

Patience.

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11-10-2011, 09:24 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
The organization doesn't need to tell Kadri to 'do his thing.' Kadri needs to start doing the organization's thing.
Exactly. The sense of entitlement that some people want to give 21 year old prospects is ridiculous. The Leafs dont owe Kadri anything. If he plays consistantly well, he will be called up. Similarly if his attitude is a problem he best smarten that up as well because at this moment he is not good enough to stick around while having issues in the locker room.

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11-10-2011, 09:27 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Ratboy View Post
wilson must hate kadri then. its the only logical answer.
Do you think? Makes me laugh when fans say that it is 100% performance based...Why not open your eyes?.. Fans want to beleive that Wilson/Burke are fair to a fault.....that everything is as it seems. That for not one second, the players personality enters the equation. Sure. Wilson is a pr1ck. I can totally see him try and derail a young player if he doesn't like his attitude. 100%. They are both very much ego-centric managers...you can absolutely tell in interviews with them both. Kadri may not be the perfect NHL player but seriously folks, look at the Leafs roster objectively, and convince yourselves there is no room for his skillset, talent on the Leafs. Sure.

Burke came to town and he had all these ideals about blue and white disease and culture of entitlement and blah blah blah......Wilson has thrown Kadri under the bus in the media a number of times. Wilson has had his moments with Kessel as well....Cody Franson is not exactly in the management teams good books either. Really, its not hard to see. Fans just choose to not see it because they want to believe that their management team is doing the right thing for the team always. Sometimes personality clashes supercede everything else because egos get in the way. Thats life. Thats reality. Thats the corporate world too. Not just in sports. Do people think its always the most talented and deserving employees that get promoted? Hardly. Anybody who has worked in a corporate environment knows that is simply untrue. Many other factors come into play. Like egos , personalities and perceived attitude problems.

At this point, I'm not 100% sure who is keeping Kadri down...Wilson or Burke or is it both of them? I'd say the GM has the coaches back so if it is Wilson, Burke is backing his decision 100% but I'm not so sure Burke is fuzzy about Kadri either.

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11-10-2011, 09:31 AM
  #262
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could you please change the record, I really can't listen to Kumbaya one more time

we get it! all the ills in the world should be laid at the feet of the manster that is called wilsonbourke

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Old
11-10-2011, 09:34 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
Exactly. The sense of entitlement that some people want to give 21 year old prospects is ridiculous. The Leafs dont owe Kadri anything. If he plays consistantly well, he will be called up. Similarly if his attitude is a problem he best smarten that up as well because at this moment he is not good enough to stick around while having issues in the locker room.
You mean the sense of entitlement that unproven awful players like Bozak and Gustavsson reap. That kind of entitlement? Sure you can and will justify anything you want but just watch the players play and make your own judgements...I like Kadri as a player and I don't believe he shouldn't be playing in the NHL...for his sake, I want him traded. Go to a team that will showcase his talents and let him develop in the NHL. Thats really what I'd like to see....That would be awesome. You can bet he would come back to the ACC and embarrass Leaf management if they are still around.

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11-10-2011, 09:36 AM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Starting a thread based on something that Doug MacLean said?

He hasn't seen Kadri play a minute of hockey in the AHL.
And you know this because??? Could it not be possible that MacLean has seen the Marlies play in TO while he is in town working for Sportsnet?

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11-10-2011, 10:05 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
That's the exact same point I made...

They're playing him in a defensive role on the third line which clearly isn't his game. He needs top 6 icetime with skilled linemates and requires a longer leash to let him use his offensive skill. However to get that icetime you have to earn it which he just hasn't done yet. Guys like Frattin and Crabb have done more with less.
Frattin has done nothing.

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11-10-2011, 11:13 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Frattin has done nothing.
This is an argument I have not been able to wrap my head around lately. They play two extremely different games. Frattin, is an abled body forechecker who will get in deep and hit, battle in the corners and generally just play a game that is more suited to someone to someone who doesn't always have to put the puck in the net. He deserves to be up more than Kadri if only for the role they need filled and the style of play that Frattin has played.

I don't get all the Kadri lovers and the absurdity of their arguments.
In fact, I lump the Kadri lovers in the same group as the Wilson haters. Which is absurd, uneducated and generally just incompetent posters who are stat trackers and not game watchers.

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11-10-2011, 11:19 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by willy29 View Post
And you know this because??? Could it not be possible that MacLean has seen the Marlies play in TO while he is in town working for Sportsnet?
It is impossible for MacLean to have seen Kadri play for the Marlies in Toronto this season.

According to the Oklahoma City colour guy the other day Kadri was the most impressive player for both teams. He should be I know, but he was.

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11-10-2011, 11:28 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratboy View Post
This is not guaranteed. He may have many mediocre years, or good for the AHL years. or good for the khl years. he was junk in the world juniors.kadri is overrated, i believe this to be true. i will eat my virtual hat if he becomes a significant top 6 player for us.
8 points in 6 games is junk?

2 points in the gold medal game is junk?

No wonder you think Kadri is overrated, your standards are ridiculously high.

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11-10-2011, 11:29 AM
  #269
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Monster should be the one up and down to the ahl with his play. Kadri should be with the big team for 20 games and reevaluate then.

Not willing to play him on the 3rd line is dumb, just let the guy play

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11-10-2011, 11:33 AM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alazais View Post
This is an argument I have not been able to wrap my head around lately. They play two extremely different games. Frattin, is an abled body forechecker who will get in deep and hit, battle in the corners and generally just play a game that is more suited to someone to someone who doesn't always have to put the puck in the net. He deserves to be up more than Kadri if only for the role they need filled and the style of play that Frattin has played.

I don't get all the Kadri lovers and the absurdity of their arguments.
In fact, I lump the Kadri lovers in the same group as the Wilson haters. Which is absurd, uneducated and generally just incompetent posters who are stat trackers and not game watchers.
blah blah blah

Matt Frattin his one point (ONE POINT) and is a -4 in 12 games.

That is terrible.

Fratting doesn't really bring much to the table.

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Old
11-10-2011, 11:46 AM
  #271
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Agreed Kadri should be in the NHL

He's proven he can't dominate the AHL so promote him, it's been a Leaf trade mark for years. Agreed on Frattin he should not have been promoted either.

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Old
11-10-2011, 11:50 AM
  #272
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1st Line: 20gls (Kessel 11, Lupul 8, Connolly 1) - 109 goal pace
2nd Line: 13gls (MacA 6, Grabo 5, Kuly 2) - 71 goal pace
3rd Line: 4gls (Crabb 2, Lombo 2, Bozak 0, Army 0, Frattin 0) - 22 goal pace
4th Line: 5gls (Steckel 3, Brown 1, Orr 1, Dupuis 0, Rosie 0) - 27 goal pace

All the lines are producing well, except for the 3rd line.

A 22 goal pace from a 3rd line is unacceptable. The only reason it hasn't been a problem so far is because the 1st line has been so good, but the 1st line can't keep that kind of pace up all season long (they'll likely end up in the 80-90 goal range).

We need more production from our 3rd line. Either the guys in there have to start scoring, or we have to try something else.

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Old
11-10-2011, 11:51 AM
  #273
leafsrule123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
Kadri earned his spot on the team at camp but the injury obviously pushed him aside... he's done everything the team has asked of him.

He's improved his defensive game, makes quicker passes, less dangles... stronger on the puck.

Why is it some of you want to trade players when they're "struggling" (Not in Kadri's case).. but Grabo, Bozak, Schenn, list goes on.

Buffalo knows Myers will improve, Montreal knows with Subban, LA with Doughty, etc.

Patience.
My thoughts exactly. This is what the old management would do in the past, trade struggling players away and then they turn there games around and become great players.

Leafs nation is in too much of a rush. We do not have a Stanley cup contender yet. So what is there to prove this year? Make the playoffs and thats a start.

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11-10-2011, 11:52 AM
  #274
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When the Red Wings send down a good prospect, it's "oh they're a great franchise and know how to develop their prospects! That's the right move!"

When the Leafs send down a prospect, it's a conspiracy.
That's what I agrued in a thread like a week ago. U gotta earn ur spot, he hasn't.

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11-10-2011, 11:52 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
You mean the sense of entitlement that unproven awful players like Bozak and Gustavsson reap. That kind of entitlement? Sure you can and will justify anything you want but just watch the players play and make your own judgements...I like Kadri as a player and I don't believe he shouldn't be playing in the NHL...for his sake, I want him traded. Go to a team that will showcase his talents and let him develop in the NHL. Thats really what I'd like to see....That would be awesome. You can bet he would come back to the ACC and embarrass Leaf management if they are still around.
How do Bozak, Crabb, et al get the nod above Kadri? It's sickening. I hope Kadri gets the chance to showcase his talents elsewhere, because the management here just wants to bury him in the minors.

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