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RE: doug maclean's comments on Kadri

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Old
11-09-2011, 11:31 AM
  #51
LeafsDiary
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I watched him play a lot of games-he can play and anyone that can be a Dale Hunter guy is someone I would have on my team any day.

Burke and Wilson don't like him so they are just waiting to trade him.

Kadri will be traded and he will join the likes of a long list of young players to be run out if town in Toronto and go on to have a great NHL career and probably win a Stanley Cup.
Outside of Larry Murphy, who did Leafs fans run out of Toronto?

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11-09-2011, 11:33 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by LeafsDiary View Post
Outside of Larry Murphy, who did Leafs fans run out of Toronto?
How old are you? Not trying to be smart but I'm wondering.

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11-09-2011, 11:34 AM
  #53
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i am paraphrasing, but he thinks there's something up with this organization and Kadri. mentioned his poor AHL effort: 6 GP, 4pts, 4 assists, -4. can't understand why he's continually not been given a chance with the big club.

My question for you is:

Does Kadri want to be here?

what's the buzz?

what do you think?


Please/Thanks
He's not up because of depth.

Leafs have 7 NHL D. Up front:

Lupul Conolly Kessel
Kulemin Grabo McArthur
Crabb Lombardi Frattin
Dupuis Steckel Brown
Armstong
Rosehill
Orr

That's a full roster. In case people aren't aware sometimes players are sent down for contractual purposes and waivers. That's probably why Aulie initially went down. Who else will clear waivers?

Frattin has proved he can battle and is a better fit for the third line. I think they want Kadri to play in the top 6.

Crabb -- if anyone noticed -- was recalled just before his 30 days were up. So he didn't have to go in recallable waivers. Burke is just protecting an asset here -- a guy that was 2nd in AHL scoring -- and he would loose if recalled later. Colborne and Kadri don't need to pass through waivers.

The roster, and Kadrii are a result of where the Leafs are right now. I'm sure Burke wants to make a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deal. In fact he has publicly stated as much. He want to deal 2 younger players (almost the entire roster is young) for a proven top 6.

Leafs have depth and contractual problems. They need to move some bodies. They don't want to give these guys away. Kadri will be up. Two months in the minors will not hurt him. Tell this to MacLean.

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11-09-2011, 11:34 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
How old are you? Not trying to be smart but I'm wondering.
There have been more than one (former players-- not necessarily Cup winners), that's for sure. Even if he hasn't *watched that long, McCabe wasn't too long ago.

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11-09-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Cory Schneider is almost 26 years old, and has played out his waiver eligability. He's won some games with a very dynamic Vancouver team. I like him and would love to have him on my team but not ever at the expense of a 21 year old prospect just entering his 2nd pro season.

If you want to trade for a guy like that, look to players that won't help you as much 2-5 years down the road. Liles, MacA, Lupul, make much more sense to me than Kadri.
Thats all and good dynrehab, but there are two parties that need to dance in a trade.....the players which you offer should be players that are actually wanted by the team trading. Things to consider are players fitting into the system, salary cap issues and what the needs of the trading partner are. Kadri is cheap and young with a lot of potential...which cannot be said of any of your other options. Thats why he would be most likely the sought after player.

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11-09-2011, 11:35 AM
  #56
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I don't understand why Nash would resign in Columbus

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11-09-2011, 11:35 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
How old are you? Not trying to be smart but I'm wondering.
That's irrelevant to the current conversation, really.

I'm just looking for a comprehensive list of Stanley Cup Champs that have had successful careers after being run out of Toronto by the fans, excluding Larry Murphy.

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11-09-2011, 11:37 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by LeafsDiary View Post
That's irrelevant to the current conversation, really.

I'm just looking for a comprehensive list of Stanley Cup Champs that have had successful careers after being run out of Toronto by the fans, excluding Larry Murphy.
The last young player I can remember we traded and got equal value for is Dick Duff. Mahovlich wasn't that young but we got fleeced with that one.

Start with Bernie Parent and move forward my friend. You will be shocked.

And it is not irrelevant. Seems the younger fans have no sense of hockey history and the futility of this franchise of dealing with their own talent since their last cup. They turned their backs on their amateur players when others were ramping them up. For you own knowledge you should look back. Parent was a double stanely cup winger, was one of the reasons Phy beat us in game seven against our pyrimad power and later a hall of famer.

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11-09-2011, 11:37 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Kadri will be traded and he will join the likes of a long list of young players to be run out if town in Toronto and go on to have a great NHL career and probably win a Stanley Cup.
Weren't you the guy yesterday praising Cliff Fletcher for what he did in the 90's?

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11-09-2011, 11:39 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I watched him play a lot of games-he can play and anyone that can be a Dale Hunter guy is someone I would have on my team any day.

Burke and Wilson don't like him so they are just waiting to trade him.

Kadri will be traded and he will join the likes of a long list of young players to be run out if town in Toronto and go on to have a great NHL career and probably win a Stanley Cup.
Burke is a loyal guy to a fault some would say, I think he will stick with kadri as long as possible, but I agree about Ron and Naz, think that bridge has been burned somewhere a long the lines.

When he was sent down, Ron said "well he has no choice." Seems like he is less forgiving on Naz then just about anyone else in the Org. There has to be something more to this than what we see on the surface.

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11-09-2011, 11:39 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
Kadri for Cory Schneider would save our season
Wouldn't help VAN in any way though

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11-09-2011, 11:42 AM
  #62
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Weren't you the guy yesterday praising Cliff Fletcher for what he did in the 90's?
Yes I was but the difference with Cliff is he brought quality back. He traded Wendyl but he brought in Matts Sundin. He was forced to require Clark, that was not his decision. I was not a fan of trading away a hall of famer in Damphouse but with what he got he was able to turn that into Andreychuk and a trip to two conference finals. I was a Courtnall fan.....do we need to go through them all before you see we have a horrible record with young players?

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11-09-2011, 11:43 AM
  #63
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I will say one thing, I don't see Wilson or Burke rip other Leaf rookies (Frattin) the way they continually rip Kadri (in the press).

I think one full season in the AHL for Kadri would do him a world of good, then he should be good to go for a full season with the Leafs next season, ideally playing on the 2nd line, not 3rd or 4th.

Matt Frattin was selected in the 4th round, making him a fringe player. Maybe the reason they're being a little harder on Kadri is because they chose him 7th in the entire draft class, ahead of Scott Glennie (smart), Jared Cowen, MPS and Ryan Ellis. Maybe its time the organization stops looking for him to come out of his shell and throw him in the deep end. How long do you let a 1st round pick develop (goalies aside) in the AHL before its time to get a nice big sample size in the show?

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11-09-2011, 11:43 AM
  #64
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perhaps im oblivious but i dont think that the leafs management is doing anything wrong with kadri. he deserves to be on the marlies and that is where he is.

having a coach like eakins will do a lot more for his development then playing under a coach like wilson.

he will have time to hopefully gel with other marlies like colborne and frattin (when he gets sent down again).

he needs to put on some weight and get stronger with the puck.

there really is nothing wrong with having a 21 year old prospect playing in the ahl. even if he were there for another 2 years it would not be a catastrophy. people forget that crabb is 28 and frattin is almost 25. thats a big difference in physical and mental maturity to a 21 year old.

i dont think burke or wilson said or did anything out of line or character. i havent seen any unfair treatment towards kadri other then holding him to a high standard.

in the past when we brought up rookies and they failed the leafs rushed their rookies and couldnt develop talent. when they take their time then they are running a prospect out of town?

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11-09-2011, 11:45 AM
  #65
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Thats all and good dynrehab, but there are two parties that need to dance in a trade.....the players which you offer should be players that are actually wanted by the team trading. Things to consider are players fitting into the system, salary cap issues and what the needs of the trading partner are. Kadri is cheap and young with a lot of potential...which cannot be said of any of your other options. Thats why he would be most likely the sought after player.
I'm not making proposals, so I don't need to think of it from the Canucks standpoint. If I was, I'd say the Canucks are ******** to move him.

As for the Leafs, and Ikve said this many times, they should be looking to move older guys for potentially good talent and not the other way around. Once we have some more depth and higher quality with our younger players, we can start thinking about trading for an upgrade.

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11-09-2011, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
The last young player I can remember we traded and got equal value for is Dick Duff. Mahovlich wasn't that young but we got fleeced with that one.

Start with Bernie Parent and move forward my friend. You will be shocked.

And it is not irrelevant. Seems the younger fans have no sense of hockey history and the futility of this franchise of dealing with their own talent since their last cup. They turned their backs on their amateur players when others were ramping them up. For you own knowledge you should look back. Parent was a double stanely cup winger, was one of the reasons Phy beat us in game seven against our pyrimad power and later a hall of famer.
Mahovlich was turning 31 and we got Paul Henderson, Norm Ullman and Floyd Smith back. Not a terrible return there.

Parent was a victim of the times. There wasn't a PA to put pressure on the owners to give players the money they deserved, I don't think this is exclusive to the Leafs. I have read the history, I know the way that players were treated...but drumming up facts from 40+ years ago when player treatment was completely different as a comparison for the Kadri situation doesn't seem like a viable comparison to me.

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11-09-2011, 11:49 AM
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Yes I was but the difference with Cliff is he brought quality back. He traded Wendyl but he brought in Matts Sundin. He was forced to require Clark, that was not his decision. I was not a fan of trading away a hall of famer in Damphouse but with what he got he was able to turn that into Andreychuk and a trip to two conference finals. I was a Courtnall fan.....do we need to go through them all before you see we have a horrible record with young players?
I've seen it, but there seems to be a double standard. Cliffy did a great job in the 90's moving multiple 1st rounders for Grant Fuhr, but Burke has always made the trade for the young player and he's getting bashed. Maybe wait until Kadri is traded before bashing Burke for trading Kadri.

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11-09-2011, 11:50 AM
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I hope he is. I wouldn't give him away for anything less than a significant improvement immediately though and I wouldn't want another prospect in return. .
Burke is still seeking that #1 centre since he arrived, and should a situation arise to acquire one through trade, I also believe that leafs would have little issue parting with Kadri in that process.

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11-09-2011, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LeafsDiary View Post
Mahovlich was turning 31 and we got Paul Henderson, Norm Ullman and Floyd Smith back. Not a terrible return there.

Parent was a victim of the times. There wasn't a PA to put pressure on the owners to give players the money they deserved, I don't think this is exclusive to the Leafs. I have read the history, I know the way that players were treated...but drumming up facts from 40+ years ago when player treatment was completely different as a comparison for the Kadri situation doesn't seem like a viable comparison to me.
If you want to turn your back on it because you are too young to understand the history that is your your issue. To say our history with our talent is stellar than you live in a vacuum. Nazem will just be added to the list-stop making excuses for them. We should be better-we are the Leafs.

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11-09-2011, 11:53 AM
  #70
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They lost Kadri. The kid doesn't have the enthusiasm to play for this organization and I have said it in the past they were jerking his chain. Last year if they were going to send him to the minors than fine but they should have made the decision when he was brought up he was brought up for good. I'm sorry but having Bozak, Lombardi and Frattin ahead of him on the depth chart is ridiculous.

The kid should be our third line centre and given second line power play duty and spotted on the first line. They could have a great young player in him but McLean is right, they don't want him here.
Kadri can't play center at the NHL level. He lacks the tenacity and the defensive responsibility to fill that role. As a winger he was OK but less than impressive.

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11-09-2011, 11:53 AM
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I have a feeling that Ron Wilson truly dislikes Kadri...
If you look at Rons twitter, you'll notice he follows EVERYONE from top to bottom in the organization, all prospects, except for Nazem Kadri. I aint got no clue what it is but he hates the kid!

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11-09-2011, 11:54 AM
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Kadri can't play center at the NHL level. He lacks the tenacity and the defensive responsibility to fill that role. As a winger he was OK but less than impressive.
Put him on the third line for the year and you will be surprised. You have to give a guy a solid year. Bozak has been subpar in 2 1/2 years but he still gets the start.

I get a kick out of the crap people will believe.

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11-09-2011, 11:55 AM
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If you want to turn your back on it because you are too young to understand the history that is your your issue. To say our history with our talent is stellar than you live in a vacuum. Nazem will just be added to the list-stop making excuses for them. We should be better-we are the Leafs.
I never actually said any of this.


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11-09-2011, 12:06 PM
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I get a kick out of the crap people will believe.
You are the guy here who has created your own reality that not only will Naz be traded, but he'll be traded for a terrible return. Why should anyone believe that?

Yesterday you gave praise to Fletch for trading a homegrown ppg forward and a 4th overall pick + for an older goalie who did nothing for this team except for what he returned us in a trade, and now you are rambling about the current regime throwing Kadri in a dumpster.

You've created a reality that doesn't exist so get off your high horse.

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11-09-2011, 12:10 PM
  #75
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Pretty obvious Kadri has fallen out of favour with the fans. Good chance he'll be moved sometime this season.
Fixed

This city's lack of patience for developing players is hilarious.

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