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TSST: Hall, Paajarvi, The Messiah, and Peckman, Hemsky will never be the same

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Old
11-12-2011, 12:09 AM
  #76
Eskimo44
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He's suffering from what all young defenseman suffer from, Lowetide had a terrific article up on it the other day. Remember Smid?

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11-12-2011, 12:15 AM
  #77
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Haven't we learned anything from Smid?
NO HE SUCKS FOREVER TRADE HIM NOW!!!! LOUD NOISES!!!!

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11-12-2011, 12:45 AM
  #78
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You're gonna see some serious ****!

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11-12-2011, 01:02 AM
  #79
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It really sucks to watch him and Eberle struggle like this. Hell (in a nod to another poster's comment from the other day) if Hall had 9 or 10 goals right now I wouldn't care if the Oilers were 6-9 or 5-10. Even though I want to see improvement in the standings... development > wins.

Right now our offence stinks and you can just sense disaster on the horizon. Blah.

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11-12-2011, 02:50 AM
  #80
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Agree - 2-3 weeks in OKC would give MPS minutes and offensive opportunities to help build his confidence.

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11-12-2011, 03:08 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Trizent View Post
Agree - 2-3 weeks in OKC would give MPS minutes and offensive opportunities to help build his confidence.
He might need more than that, the first week or two would be the shock of being sent down/adjusting to teammates, etc. I am not fine with us molding him into a grinder.

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11-12-2011, 06:09 AM
  #82
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He might need more than that, the first week or two would be the shock of being sent down/adjusting to teammates, etc. I am not fine with us molding him into a grinder.

He have omark down there , and he knows half the team from last season and the camp, Harski, vv, omarra,chorney,Brule and plante played on the big team.

He need to develope his offensive game, im not sure playing with omark is the best fit, these tap in goals he made last season isnt what i want to see from him, I want to see full speed driving to the net offence, use his big body and hit hard along the boards, he need to get agressive and get confidence, he need ahl time, where he can take chances and develope a more ego game without so much defensive thinking.

I can also see Lander go down with him, We must stop burning young prospects in the oilers and develop their game properly in the Ahl first.

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11-12-2011, 06:35 AM
  #83
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Dont send him down, give him some PP minutes to get his offense going.

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11-12-2011, 07:20 AM
  #84
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Didn't read much of the thread, but any connotation of sending Petrell isn't fair.

The guy is a perfect fourth liner. Actually...

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11-12-2011, 08:58 AM
  #85
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I notice it too, I attribute it to the style of game he is playing. He seems to have only one speed right now (full out), and flying around like that your gonna end up on your ass more than most. I would really like him to scale it back a bit at times, not so much so that he isnt upended or falling, but rather to allow him to throw the D off by changing speeds. Its way more easy to pinch a guy off that is moving at one constant speed (even if it is full speed) then if he is changing speed) as it throws of the timing of the D.r
Yea but, he's better than Eberle

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11-12-2011, 09:45 AM
  #86
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I call him "Taylor Fall" with my friends... but I try not ever bring it up in the forums because I fear it could actually catch wind.

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11-12-2011, 09:47 AM
  #87
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From what I have seen this year, he definetly needs to time in hte AHL.

My Question is who replaces him?

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11-12-2011, 09:47 AM
  #88
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Eleventeebillion

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:46 AM
  #89
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I'm shocked that I'm not the one that started this thread.

To be serious, I think Hall needs to stop playing the board game when at full speed. He's being dominated by opposition defenses right now. All you need to do is take away that open-ice option and you'll have Hall against the boards, where he's easier to manage.

Just take away the angle and you'll see him take a low-percentage shot (stupid, but that's his game) - even bottom-pairing defensemen have figured out how to stop him because he has such a one-track mind.

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11-12-2011, 11:11 AM
  #90
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In hockey, a player is only as good as his line mates. I don't care who he is. There are way too many people losing faith in one of our 20 year old future studs in his sophomore season. Him and Gagner both need a boost offensively, and Ryan Jones is not going to be that boost. Pair the kid up with Hemsky and watch the production get jumpstarted. Sending him to OKC is not the answer right now.

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11-12-2011, 11:16 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I'm shocked that I'm not the one that started this thread.

To be serious, I think Hall needs to stop playing the board game when at full speed. He's being dominated by opposition defenses right now. All you need to do is take away that open-ice option and you'll have Hall against the boards, where he's easier to manage.

Just take away the angle and you'll see him take a low-percentage shot (stupid, but that's his game) - even bottom-pairing defensemen have figured out how to stop him because he has such a one-track mind.
yup, he is the literal definition of a one-trick pony at this point... he's young, so will likely figure out some other ways to try and create offence, but if you're not *very* worried about his future success at this point - something is wrong with you... like you said, the dmen of the league have figured out how to play against him... its really as simple as that, now hall needs to change his game up and create offence in different ways... is hall actually capable of doing this though? thats the million dollar question, the answer to which will determine the fate of the oilers organization for the next decade... we'll find out this answer soon enough

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11-12-2011, 11:28 AM
  #92
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Last night I watched peckham closely; not on purpose, but because he was just god awful and everytime someone did something boneheaded with me screaming at the TV, it was him. I could not understand why renee had him on the ice. He had so much ice time, it seemed like he was there as a first pairing D.

God he is awful and the epitome of everyone's fears of our defense not being as good as it has been. Potter is OK but has overachieved - just that. Peckham is terrible.

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Old
11-12-2011, 12:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
yup, he is the literal definition of a one-trick pony at this point... he's young, so will likely figure out some other ways to try and create offence, but if you're not *very* worried about his future success at this point - something is wrong with you... like you said, the dmen of the league have figured out how to play against him... its really as simple as that, now hall needs to change his game up and create offence in different ways... is hall actually capable of doing this though? thats the million dollar question, the answer to which will determine the fate of the oilers organization for the next decade... we'll find out this answer soon enough
This is my worry as well. And I feel he's never had to make that adjustment before because it was always assumed he was physically superior to all his opposition. The way he's playing now is basically how he played in the OHL - relying on his speed to help create chances. But NHL defensemen can keep up with him, and use their size to force him to the outside.

I don't think he has the hockey IQ to adjust, but that's just me. I want to see him start making quick cuts to the inside, or stopping suddenly to feed it to Eberle/RNH as they join the rush with him. Could you imagine how many 2-on-1's Eberle/RNH would have if Hall's speed completely occupies a defenseman when he breaks in? It's just a matter of him losing the shoot-first mentality and learning to move the puck at the right time.

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11-12-2011, 12:08 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
This is my worry as well. And I feel he's never had to make that adjustment before because it was always assumed he was physically superior to all his opposition. The way he's playing now is basically how he played in the OHL - relying on his speed to help create chances. But NHL defensemen can keep up with him, and use their size to force him to the outside.

I don't think he has the hockey IQ to adjust, but that's just me. I want to see him start making quick cuts to the inside, or stopping suddenly to feed it to Eberle/RNH as they join the rush with him. Could you imagine how many 2-on-1's Eberle/RNH would have if Hall's speed completely occupies a defenseman when he breaks in? It's just a matter of him losing the shoot-first mentality and learning to move the puck at the right time.
cutting to the middle, stopping up, and i would add driving to the net, are the exact things he needs to add to his game to make him more than a 1-trick pony... i don't know if it will come easy though because, as you said, he's never had to do this in the past... he's always been so much faster than everybody else, that he could just beat them wide... hall doesn't have a high hockey IQ, that is pretty obvious, but fortunately i don't think it takes a genius to see that he needs to add these other aspects to his game.... i'm hopeful that he will be able to add these elements, because if he doesn't we're in some serious, serious trouble moving forward

the thing is with hall, is that he doesn't have that great of a shot and certainly isn't a sniper... he will get the majority of his goals on the rush and around the goal-mouth... in other words: he needs to get to the net to score goals... he simply can't beat tenders from outside the way true snipers can... again, hopefully he will realize this and change his game up

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Old
11-12-2011, 12:13 PM
  #95
Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by Ranford30 View Post
In hockey, a player is only as good as his line mates. I don't care who he is. There are way too many people losing faith in one of our 20 year old future studs in his sophomore season. Him and Gagner both need a boost offensively, and Ryan Jones is not going to be that boost. Pair the kid up with Hemsky and watch the production get jumpstarted. Sending him to OKC is not the answer right now.
The problem is that Renney is not giving him that boost, nor does it seem like he has any intention to. His confidence continues to decline in the meantime. Unless Renney throws him a bone, IMO the AHL is the best way unless he suddenly gets his game going in spite of everything.

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11-12-2011, 12:22 PM
  #96
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Smyth-RNH-Hemsky
Hall-Horcoff-Eberle
Hartikanen-Gagner-Jones
Eager-Belanger-Petrell

1st PP -
Smyth-RNH-Hemsky
Belanger-Gilbert

2nd PP -
Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Horcoff-Petry

Belanger and Horcoff for faceoffs and defensive presence. Keep Smid/Sutton/Barker/Peckham fresh for defence/PK, etc.


Bring up Harti and another player who could use a little time with the big club (Pitlick?--he can practice and be a spare for a bit).If Gagner continues to struggle, move Belanger back up to 3rd and insert Pitlick.. Send MPS and Lander to OKC for a few weeks and see if it kick starts anything with Omark.

Depending on how things work out, maybe bring all three up in a few weeks....

This is all designed to just shake things a little. Overall, the Oil have played well and been in most games. I don't think any of these moves need to be permanent but I also don't think you'd want to let things drag for too long without changes. If the young player's confidence isn't shaken yet, it could be so by not adjusting. We do need to get 'everyone' going to win and they need to be put in positions to succeed without impacting their line mates too much. We can't depend on the 'old guys' and/or the 'kids' to carry the team all year. We need a 3rd line going...The time to experiment is at this time of the year. Obviously, you don't want to make it worse but some tweaks to try and get everyone going.

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Old
11-12-2011, 12:30 PM
  #97
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cutting to the middle, stopping up, and i would add driving to the net, are the exact things he needs to add to his game to make him more than a 1-trick pony... i don't know if it will come easy though because, as you said, he's never had to do this in the past... he's always been so much faster than everybody else, that he could just beat them wide... hall doesn't have a high hockey IQ, that is pretty obvious, but fortunately i don't think it takes a genius to see that he needs to add these other aspects to his game.... i'm hopeful that he will be able to add these elements, because if he doesn't we're in some serious, serious trouble moving forward

the thing is with hall, is that he doesn't have that great of a shot and certainly isn't a sniper... he will get the majority of his goals on the rush and around the goal-mouth... in other words: he needs to get to the net to score goals... he simply can't beat tenders from outside the way true snipers can... again, hopefully he will realize this and change his game up
Doesn't this worry you a bit? The fact that our 1st overall goal-scoring winger isn't a sniper? I mean Ryan Smyth scores a lot of goals in that around-the-goalmouth style, but he's literally a "generational talent" in that regard. You only get 1-2 players like that every 15-20 years - someone that damn good in front of the net. Hall has no where near the skillset of a Smyth in front of the net. He's kind of average to be honest.

And "scoring off the rush" isn't typically something he does, because he literally can't finish unless it's a perfect setup from RNH/Eberle. He can't really shoot when skating at full speed.

He scored a few goals last year by virtue of literally intimidating goaltenders with his speed breaking in. They would back into their nets, and he'd take that opened up shooting angle to score (OT winner STL, goal vs Rinne). He needs to stop deking, he doesn't have the hands to make it work - and he's tried it repeatedly. If he sticks to using open ice rather than the boards, he could easily increase the quality of his shots.

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Old
11-12-2011, 12:43 PM
  #98
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If Hall is truly such a struggling player in the NHL with such HUGE flaws in his game, then how did he go on a tear last year before he got hurt?

He's just in a slump. Unless he's hurt, which he isn't; there is no reason to believe his performance won't return and rebound to levels of last season or slight improvement.

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11-12-2011, 12:46 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I'm shocked that I'm not the one that started this thread.

To be serious, I think Hall needs to stop playing the board game when at full speed. He's being dominated by opposition defenses right now. All you need to do is take away that open-ice option and you'll have Hall against the boards, where he's easier to manage.

Just take away the angle and you'll see him take a low-percentage shot (stupid, but that's his game) - even bottom-pairing defensemen have figured out how to stop him because he has such a one-track mind.
Hall isnt playing against bottom pairing defensemen.

Nice smear job though.

Clogging up the middle and forcing to players to the outside isnt a strategy exclusive to Hall btw.

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11-12-2011, 12:48 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
This is my worry as well. And I feel he's never had to make that adjustment before because it was always assumed he was physically superior to all his opposition. The way he's playing now is basically how he played in the OHL - relying on his speed to help create chances. But NHL defensemen can keep up with him, and use their size to force him to the outside.

I don't think he has the hockey IQ
to adjust, but that's just me. I want to see him start making quick cuts to the inside, or stopping suddenly to feed it to Eberle/RNH as they join the rush with him. Could you imagine how many 2-on-1's Eberle/RNH would have if Hall's speed completely occupies a defenseman when he breaks in? It's just a matter of him losing the shoot-first mentality and learning to move the puck at the right time.
You keep saying this but are never able to back it up with anything.

Got any examples?

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