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11-12-2011, 01:46 AM
  #26
Jason Lewis
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Ah...I remember those great games last year where Lewis played 2nd line with Brown...wasn't it like 3 goals and 3 assists or something in 4 games?



And Murray benched him.

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11-12-2011, 01:47 AM
  #27
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Ah...I remember those great games last year where Lewis played 2nd line with Brown...wasn't it like 3 goals and 3 assists or something in 4 games?



And Murray benched him.
You have a short memory. That lasted a few games and then Lewis went cold. Like everyone said he would. Then Murray moved him out of the line. He didn't bench him.

And it was more like five Points in ten Games.

The First four games they were together was ok. The last Six, one point and minus four for Lewis.

I know it's fun to bash Murray, but if you're going to talk Sh^% at least have it correct.


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11-12-2011, 01:56 AM
  #28
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These are North, South guys Dean has picked, Dean Lombardi Hockey baby. Poni has already been Struggling in Carolina a few games. So it's not Murray at all.

Frolov was always a Lazy player. Murray didn't turn him into one. He just demanded Frolov give effort ALL GAME LONG.

We all know about Moulson and Purcell. But Murray didn't trade them Dean Lombardi did.

Murray Coaches Dean Lombardi Hockey. And Dean has given Murray, Dean Lombardi Hockey Players.

They will not Magically Turn into Skill guys, with some AHL or Cast off NHL Coach.
They will still be Board Battle, Grind it out Hockey guys.

Cause that is Dean Lombardi Hockey. The Next Coach Will Coach Dean Lombardi Hockey, With Dean Lombardi Players.

You guys all have this Fantasy; That Some Coach is Magically going to turn all these Bottom Six guys, into 15/20 guys. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Well said.

It really is funny how people think a coaching change is going to miraculously turn our top line players into 40 goal scorers and our bottom line players into actual NHL quality players. The Kings aren't scoring because there isn't very much skill on the team, and the bottom lines are awful because it is full of fringe NHL players and plumbers.

This is exactly the team, coach and style that management wants. Lombardi and Hextall knew Murray well, they had worked and played for him before, this is the type of style the Kings want to play, as you say, Dean Lombardi hockey.

The Kings very well could make a change to shake up the room, but it's going to be another like minded person, probably a certain ex-Flyers coach already on the staff, and we are right back where we started.

Real and positive change will only come to this team by cutting off the head, not putting a band-aid over a broken leg. And any real or positive change won't happen until after the season at the earliest.

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11-12-2011, 02:16 AM
  #29
damacles1156
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Well said.

It really is funny how people think a coaching change is going to miraculously turn our top line players into 40 goal scorers and our bottom line players into actual NHL quality players. The Kings aren't scoring because there isn't very much skill on the team, and the bottom lines are awful because it is full of fringe NHL players and plumbers.

This is exactly the team, coach and style that management wants. Lombardi and Hextall knew Murray well, they had worked and played for him before, this is the type of style the Kings want to play, as you say, Dean Lombardi hockey.

The Kings very well could make a change to shake up the room, but it's going to be another like minded person, probably a certain ex-Flyers coach already on the staff, and we are right back where we started.

Real and positive change will only come to this team by cutting off the head, not putting a band-aid over a broken leg. And any real or positive change won't happen until after the season at the earliest.
I know right ? how mental are people. The notion that Dean Lombardi( an arrogant person. ). Is going to hand the Keys to his baby; to some AHL coach with a resume that reads (I want to play open ice hockey, pretty pass, speed).

You have all lost your effen Minds.

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11-12-2011, 02:51 AM
  #30
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We have the players in the system to compete against any team. It's just the matter of putting all the right players together and see if they can generate offense under TM. The big question mark will remain, is the problem TM or the lack of right combination of players in the lineup?

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11-12-2011, 07:56 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post

You guys all have this Fantasy; That Some Coach is Magically going to turn all these Bottom Six guys, into 15/20 guys. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
That's just inflammatory. No one said they would be 15/20 guys in the bottom 6. But 5-10 goals wouldn't be a stretch, except for Westgarth.

Looks at Phoenix, they get contributions from everyone because that is how Tippett has them playing. Tippett knows that he doesn't have the high-end skill the Kings have, yet he continues to have the Coyotes ahead of the Kings.

Again, there is no guarantee that the next Kings coach will do better than Murray, but we already know that Murray can't get the Kings to the next level. It didn't take Tippett 3+ seasons to turn around the Coyotes. New coach in Dallas, tons of new players in important positions and they are way ahead of the Kings. Byslma didn't take too long to get the Penguins to the next level.

Murray is a known problem. It's not all on the players, Murray's system has shown that it looks great when the Kings get the lucky bounces and looks terrible the rest of the time. There is no consistency with his style of play.

Could the Kings fall apart and end up 30th in the league with a new coach? Sure, it's possible, but the opposite is also possible. A new coach can come in and give life to the team and they could go on a strong run and win the Pacific and couple of rounds in the playoffs. It's not Stanley Cup or bust, but the Kings need to get a new style that gives them a chance at the cup. Just making the playoffs isn't good enough anymore, not with what AEG is spending.


After 3+ years of Murray and the Kings are 26th in offense and expecting Murray to turn the Kings around is more insane than wanting a new coach with a new vision. Even if it is Murray 2.0 giving the message, the odds of it being worse than 26th in offense is very low.

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11-12-2011, 08:05 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
We have the players in the system to compete against any team. It's just the matter of putting all the right players together and see if they can generate offense under TM. The big question mark will remain, is the problem TM or the lack of right combination of players in the lineup?
How many different players are now on the Kings compared to 3 or 4 years ago?

Kings overall offense with Murray: 27th, 10th, 27th, 26th.

Kings 5-on-5 offense with Murray: 30th, 18th, 17th, 26th

The Kings have been in the bottom half of the league in every Murray season 5-on-5. Do you blow up the team again or do you change the one at the helm?

It will be interesting to see if Lombardi is willing to go down with the ship along with Murray. Will AEG act first or will Lombardi? The longer Murray is kept, the more AEG may look at replacing both.

Who knows, maybe everyone at AEG is happy with the product on the ice. Boring, losing hockey for everyone!

One positive of the Kings now playing one of the worst systems in the NHL, I've been watching a lot more games on center ice than ever before. There is a lot of great hockey being played outside of LA. Most other teams don't seem to have a problem playing between the dots.

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11-12-2011, 08:13 AM
  #33
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I say we go after Tuomo Ruutu from Carolina. As of now the canes are struggling a bit, so its not like they couldn't use a shakeup as well. His cap hit is 3.8M, but it'll be up after this season. We'd have to throw in someone like Richardson in order to fit him under the cap ceiling. He is physical and isn't afraid to drop the gloves either. He'd be a big boost to our 3rd line...

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Brown
Ruutu-Stoll-Richardson
Moreau-Fraser-Lewis
Hunter/Westgarth

Or we give up a lot more for someone like Okposo whos been struggling so far( 0G, 3A in 13 games) on a struggling Islanders team. His cap hit is fairly low 2.8Mil, so he wouldn't be too hard to fit in cap wise. He would definitely cost more than Ruutu, however. Then we roll with these lines...

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Brown
Richardson-Stoll-Okposo
Moreau-Fraser-Lewis
Hunter/Westgarth

We can use a combo of Hickey, our 2nd rounder, Martinez, and maybe someone like Richardson or Lewis to try to pull one of these trades off...

Thoughts?
Ruutu would still cost a pretty penny. He is a valuable member of the Canes top 6.

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11-12-2011, 08:25 AM
  #34
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One positive of the Kings now playing one of the worst systems in the NHL, I've been watching a lot more games on center ice than ever before. There is a lot of great hockey being played outside of LA. Most other teams don't seem to have a problem playing between the dots.
Dean Lombardi and Terry Murray hockey is never going to be that style, our roster isn't built for it.

I would love to watch a highly skilled Kings team with a roster similar to Chicago, Buffalo or Detroit flying up and down the ice playing the game the way it's meant to be played (in my opinion). I think we would all love to see creativty and speed at ES, movement on the PP, defenseman taking chances, but unfortunately as long as we have Terry and Dean it's going to be north and south, throw pucks at the net, ugly goals shot mentality, let's win 2-1 hockey games.

Obviously we will watch because this is our team, no matter how boring the style is, but ya it's frustrating to watch an exciting 5-3 early game and then sit down and hope the Kings can win another sluggish 2-1 game.

And that is also why the Kings haven't been on national TV much, no one wants to watch a 2-1 game when they can show a Buffalo-Philly game that is edge of your seat 5-4 type game.

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11-12-2011, 09:32 AM
  #35
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That's just inflammatory. No one said they would be 15/20 guys in the bottom 6. But 5-10 goals wouldn't be a stretch, except for Westgarth.

Looks at Phoenix, they get contributions from everyone because that is how Tippett has them playing. Tippett knows that he doesn't have the high-end skill the Kings have, yet he continues to have the Coyotes ahead of the Kings.

Again, there is no guarantee that the next Kings coach will do better than Murray, but we already know that Murray can't get the Kings to the next level. It didn't take Tippett 3+ seasons to turn around the Coyotes. New coach in Dallas, tons of new players in important positions and they are way ahead of the Kings. Byslma didn't take too long to get the Penguins to the next level.

Murray is a known problem. It's not all on the players, Murray's system has shown that it looks great when the Kings get the lucky bounces and looks terrible the rest of the time. There is no consistency with his style of play.

Could the Kings fall apart and end up 30th in the league with a new coach? Sure, it's possible, but the opposite is also possible. A new coach can come in and give life to the team and they could go on a strong run and win the Pacific and couple of rounds in the playoffs. It's not Stanley Cup or bust, but the Kings need to get a new style that gives them a chance at the cup. Just making the playoffs isn't good enough anymore, not with what AEG is spending.


After 3+ years of Murray and the Kings are 26th in offense and expecting Murray to turn the Kings around is more insane than wanting a new coach with a new vision. Even if it is Murray 2.0 giving the message, the odds of it being worse than 26th in offense is very low.
Yes cause Tippet is So successful. He has the same post season record the last two years as Murray Pretty much. I don't know why you keep bringing him up.

The only thing Tippet has ever proved is; he can lose in the post season with Talent (Dallas), and without (PHX). I don't know why people keep giving him a pass. And he would simply be asked to Coach Board battle Hockey (Dean Lombardi Style).

PHX right now has Four more Goals than the Kings; their top two lines account for about almost 70% of the scoring. Hmmm that look familiar at all ? He has had THREE 50 win Teams; he went out in the first round with ALL OF THEM........Seven Trips to the Post season, FIVE FIRST ROUND EXITS........He is not that great of a Coach. Neither is Terry Murray.

Dan Blysma is a good coach. But for every Dan Bylsma Move, there are Ten Davis Payne moves.
How Ironic is it that the Blues with all their speed/skill (with the up tempo coach). Hired a D first Coach to replace him.

You need a Complete Bottom six overhaul. Also you need to get Rid of Dean Lombardi along with Terry Murray; the whole Kings organization needs to change from top to bottom.

Dean Lombardi doesn't want a team that plays exciting hockey. He wants a team that grinds hockey games out. Cause he has CONVINCED HIMSELF, that is how you win Hockey games in the post season.


Last edited by damacles1156: 11-12-2011 at 10:08 AM.
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11-12-2011, 10:58 AM
  #36
Chazz Reinhold
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You have a short memory. That lasted a few games and then Lewis went cold. Like everyone said he would. Then Murray moved him out of the line. He didn't bench him.

And it was more like five Points in ten Games.

The First four games they were together was ok. The last Six, one point and minus four for Lewis.

I know it's fun to bash Murray, but if you're going to talk Sh^% at least have it correct.
If you're going to be a dick to someone, you should at least know what YOU'RE talking about. The only time Lewis ended up playing with Brown (and Smyth) last season was after Kopitar broke his ankle.

Murray put Lewis between Smyth and Brown starting in the third period of the game against the Avalanche. Result? 1 goal and 1 assist for Lewis. http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1117

They played the next game as a line against Edmonton. Result? 2 assists for Lewis (on the only 2 goals of the game, which were Brown's). http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1143

That line stayed together for the next game against the Canucks, where a sweet embellishment by Kesler -- while the Canucks already were on a 5 minute power play -- gave the Canucks a late 5-on-3 power play (sound familiar minus the late part?), and the Canucks won 3-1. The Smyth-Lewis-Brown line did not record a point that game. http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1158

What did Murray do after that game? Put Lewis on the fourth line with Ponikarovsky and Westgarth. Don't believe me? http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/04/01...e-new-lines-3/

So, no, it wasn't "more like five Points in ten Games," nor was it like "The First four games they were together was ok. The last Six, one point and minus four for Lewis."

Lewis played 2 full games and 1 third period on a line with Smyth and Brown, and he put up a respectable 1 goal and 3 assists, and a +3 rating. After they didn't get on the board against the best team in the NHL at the time, Murray played line combo roulette and ended up putting Lewis back on the fourth line, even though his line had generated the most offense in the short amount of time they played together.

Since you said it first: "if you're going to talk Sh^% at least have it correct."

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11-12-2011, 11:30 AM
  #37
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If you're going to be a dick to someone, you should at least know what YOU'RE talking about. The only time Lewis ended up playing with Brown (and Smyth) last season was after Kopitar broke his ankle.

Murray put Lewis between Smyth and Brown starting in the third period of the game against the Avalanche. Result? 1 goal and 1 assist for Lewis. http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1117

They played the next game as a line against Edmonton. Result? 2 assists for Lewis (on the only 2 goals of the game, which were Brown's). http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1143

That line stayed together for the next game against the Canucks, where a sweet embellishment by Kesler -- while the Canucks already were on a 5 minute power play -- gave the Canucks a late 5-on-3 power play (sound familiar minus the late part?), and the Canucks won 3-1. The Smyth-Lewis-Brown line did not record a point that game. http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1158

What did Murray do after that game? Put Lewis on the fourth line with Ponikarovsky and Westgarth. Don't believe me? http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/04/01...e-new-lines-3/

So, no, it wasn't "more like five Points in ten Games," nor was it like "The First four games they were together was ok. The last Six, one point and minus four for Lewis."

Lewis played 2 full games and 1 third period on a line with Smyth and Brown, and he put up a respectable 1 goal and 3 assists, and a +3 rating. After they didn't get on the board against the best team in the NHL at the time, Murray played line combo roulette and ended up putting Lewis back on the fourth line, even though his line had generated the most offense in the short amount of time they played together.

Since you said it first: "if you're going to talk Sh^% at least have it correct."

Can we be friends? You just saved me the 10 minutes of having to type that out myself

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11-12-2011, 11:32 AM
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Chazz Reinhold
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Can we be friends? You just saved me the 10 minutes of having to type that out myself
Only if you splurge for the strippers and booze tonight.

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11-12-2011, 12:07 PM
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Jason Lewis
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Only if you splurge for the strippers and booze tonight.
So basically just hang with me on a normal Saturday night then?

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11-12-2011, 12:16 PM
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So basically just hang with me on a normal Saturday night then?
Add in the Kings and it's going to be one wild emotional roller coaster ride!

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11-13-2011, 03:01 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
If you're going to be a dick to someone, you should at least know what YOU'RE talking about. The only time Lewis ended up playing with Brown (and Smyth) last season was after Kopitar broke his ankle.

Murray put Lewis between Smyth and Brown starting in the third period of the game against the Avalanche. Result? 1 goal and 1 assist for Lewis. http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1117

They played the next game as a line against Edmonton. Result? 2 assists for Lewis (on the only 2 goals of the game, which were Brown's). http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1143

That line stayed together for the next game against the Canucks, where a sweet embellishment by Kesler -- while the Canucks already were on a 5 minute power play -- gave the Canucks a late 5-on-3 power play (sound familiar minus the late part?), and the Canucks won 3-1. The Smyth-Lewis-Brown line did not record a point that game. http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...0102011,2,1158

What did Murray do after that game? Put Lewis on the fourth line with Ponikarovsky and Westgarth. Don't believe me? http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/04/01...e-new-lines-3/

So, no, it wasn't "more like five Points in ten Games," nor was it like "The First four games they were together was ok. The last Six, one point and minus four for Lewis."

Lewis played 2 full games and 1 third period on a line with Smyth and Brown, and he put up a respectable 1 goal and 3 assists, and a +3 rating. After they didn't get on the board against the best team in the NHL at the time, Murray played line combo roulette and ended up putting Lewis back on the fourth line, even though his line had generated the most offense in the short amount of time they played together.

Since you said it first: "if you're going to talk Sh^% at least have it correct."
If my memory serves me, Lewis couldn't win a god damn faceoff, which lead to his demotion. He went one-for-seven against the Canucks, one-for-twelve against the Oilers, and I can't find his faceoff stats against Colorado, but he combined with other Kings aside from Handzus and Stoll to lose 17 of 27 draws. At the very least, he was 2 for 19 in his two full games, a whopping 10% on the draws.

With that said, I think Lewis has a lot of untapped offensive creativity and potential and his two games with Brown and Smyth prove it. We just ought to use him on right wing instead of center. Hell, even this season, Lewis is only 41% on draws. Richardson is at 74%! Small sample size, sure, but even last year, Richardson was almost 51% on draws while Lewis was barely even 39%. If you were to play Lewis on a line with Richardson and Loktionov, magic would ensue.

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11-13-2011, 12:14 PM
  #42
Jason Lewis
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Last night was arguably the best our bottom 6 has looked all season.

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11-13-2011, 12:26 PM
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I'm going to get hated on probably, but Lewis and Richardson aren't that impressive. They're fast and they have HUGE hearts but that's about it. Sorry but it's not enough.

One of them should be traded as a package to bring in a more established/proven bottom 6 guy.

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11-13-2011, 12:27 PM
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What would it take to get Pyatt from the Phoenix Coyotes. He has put up some good numbers in his career.

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11-13-2011, 01:56 PM
  #45
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What would it take to get Pyatt from the Phoenix Coyotes. He has put up some good numbers in his career.
Probably too much. Pyatt is a pretty complete bottom 6 player. I like him too and he would be a nice fit but I don't think Phoenix lets him go. Too valuable.

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11-13-2011, 02:27 PM
  #46
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I think it's time to decide who you want to go forward with: Jack Johnson or Voynov. Pick one of them to be your offensive defenseman on the second pairing and shop the other one around.

Rather than trying to land the big fish like Nash or Parise at LW who will require a large chunk of cap space, trade for a guy like TJ Oshie or JVR who are still young and have manageable cap hits and can grow with this team.

JJ and Voynov are attractive pieces for teams lacking talent on defense. The Kings need to use their surplus of talented defenseman to get a top line winger if they are serious about winning now. As stated above, Gagne belongs on the 2nd line, and Penner belongs in the bottom 6 or hopefully shipped out of town.

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11-13-2011, 04:26 PM
  #47
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I think it's time to decide who you want to go forward with: Jack Johnson or Voynov. Pick one of them to be your offensive defenseman on the second pairing and shop the other one around.

Rather than trying to land the big fish like Nash or Parise at LW who will require a large chunk of cap space, trade for a guy like TJ Oshie or JVR who are still young and have manageable cap hits and can grow with this team.

JJ and Voynov are attractive pieces for teams lacking talent on defense. The Kings need to use their surplus of talented defenseman to get a top line winger if they are serious about winning now. As stated above, Gagne belongs on the 2nd line, and Penner belongs in the bottom 6 or hopefully shipped out of town.
.......

How about shop Martinez and keep both JJ and Voynov and have 3 of the most skilled puck movers in the same D group? Good? Good.


And i you think for the life of you Jack Johnson gets JVR as a return you are kidding yourself.


The whole reason Philly traded Carter and Richards was because JVR is their new go to guy. C'mon man....

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11-13-2011, 04:35 PM
  #48
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In the future, I'd like to see the Kings pair up their top two dmen, Johnson and Doughty together, let 'em log close to 30 mins, they're capable of it. This would permit Voynov to slide into top 4 minutes, pair him up with Mitchell. Then have a very solid fort as your third defense pairing with Greene and Scuderi. It would be similar to the pairing the Kings had in the past with Norstrom and Miller.

Johnson-Doughty
Mitchell-Voynov
Scuderi-Greene

That is a defensive unit that could do it all offensively and defensively. I'd move Martinez and a bottom six forward to acquire Patrick Kaleta from the Sabres. He'd be the perfect addition to the 3rd line RW.

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11-13-2011, 06:28 PM
  #49
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I would like to see clifford moved up to play with brown and richards moving penner to play with stoll who im seeing chemistry develop. I think clifford has the type of game that would benefit with richard and brown. I would rather see him there then richardson who i think with all his speed cant finish as well as clifford. He gets pushed around to much imo (richardson)

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11-13-2011, 09:35 PM
  #50
lafan13
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 115
vCash: 500
Williams / kopitar/ gagne on 4th line...

We'd have the best 4th line in the entire league.

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