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What's up with PK Subban?

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Old
11-14-2011, 03:30 PM
  #76
Great One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Where would you rank Subban among the D-men in the conference?Personally, I will vote for Subban as much as I can when the all-star voting begins.


I see him as borderline top 10 with potential to be top 5 in the next couple of years if he keeps progressing defensively. If you're just talking about this season and include injuries like Pronger's and Green's then obviously he is ranked a little higher.

His offensive game hasn't been there this season but i've seen an improvement in his defensive play and I believe we will see him hit a hot streak and put up a few points sometime during the season. The only big problem i see in Subban's game this year has been his decision making. I think once he works on this he could very well reach his potential.

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Old
11-14-2011, 04:41 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SB164 View Post
CBC's Elliotte Friedman reiterates what many of us have already noticed this season.

29. How can you tell P.K. Subban's really arrived? Teams are attacking the Canadiens defenceman much more aggressively. Opponents are sending two players after him when he goes back after the puck. They're hoping to pressure him into a mistake, deliver a big hit or simply force him to give it to someone who doesn't handle it as well as he does. (Looked like Subban hurt himself trying to check Jordin Tootoo in Nashville.)

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html
Which is why he needs a good PP partner at the point... I'm telling everyone right now, him and Markov together is going to reak havoc, especially if Markov can adjust to playing the right point or we go into an umbrella formation.

Two D-men of that caliber playing together can only be good for the offensive production of this team.

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Old
11-14-2011, 04:53 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SB164 View Post
CBC's Elliotte Friedman reiterates what many of us have already noticed this season.

29. How can you tell P.K. Subban's really arrived? Teams are attacking the Canadiens defenceman much more aggressively. Opponents are sending two players after him when he goes back after the puck. They're hoping to pressure him into a mistake, deliver a big hit or simply force him to give it to someone who doesn't handle it as well as he does. (Looked like Subban hurt himself trying to check Jordin Tootoo in Nashville.)

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html
Probably the biggest reason Gorges has 8 points right now. He's getting so much open ice because of Subban. I dub this the "Matt Carle effect" after how he did so well last season playing on Pronger's pairing.

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Old
11-14-2011, 07:31 PM
  #79
JOKER 192
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He's just not as good as many here believe .I tried to tell you all that in the off season,you all came at me guns blazing.He looked good with wiz but that's more circumstacial than any talent.And the same will be the case when he hooks with Markov ,he may put up more points but it's not anything he's doing ,there is just no one better than him on the d-core so he gets the spot by default.If you play with the best players your stats go up.Do you think Seguin would have as many points as he has if he was still on the third line? Very unlikely.

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Old
11-14-2011, 08:25 PM
  #80
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And now Subban seemingly is on his phase where he goes hot on the PP.

Plus most opponents will take Subban into account in their game plan, perhaps even center their forecheck on Subban.

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Old
11-14-2011, 08:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JOKER 192 View Post
He's just not as good as many here believe .I tried to tell you all that in the off season,you all came at me guns blazing.He looked good with wiz but that's more circumstacial than any talent.And the same will be the case when he hooks with Markov ,he may put up more points but it's not anything he's doing ,there is just no one better than him on the d-core so he gets the spot by default.If you play with the best players your stats go up.Do you think Seguin would have as many points as he has if he was still on the third line? Very unlikely.
This isn't a very insightful post. Subban's been strong this year, so your assertion that he needs to play with top players doesn't hold.

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Old
11-14-2011, 08:47 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
This isn't a very insightful post. Subban's been strong this year, so your assertion that he needs to play with top players doesn't hold.
Maybe not but it's true.

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Old
11-14-2011, 08:56 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by JOKER 192 View Post
Maybe not but it's true.
Fitting username

Subban is playing with fire. He's on his way to getting back in top-pairing form.

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Old
11-14-2011, 09:00 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JOKER 192 View Post
Maybe not but it's true.
And yet, the numbers state you're wrong, and observation states you're wrong, and the coach's usage of him indicates you're wrong. But, for sure saying that "Subban has been bad" with no evidence or substantiation is indeed a compelling argument.

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Old
11-14-2011, 09:45 PM
  #85
Born in 1909
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Subban just is not THAT good offensively.

Wiz helped him ALOT last year...

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Old
11-14-2011, 09:57 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Subban just is not THAT good offensively.

Wiz helped him ALOT last year...


Wiz helped him in the same way Markov will when he's back. It's not that Subban is not THAT good offensively, it's that when he's your only offensive threat on D, the other team's job of stopping him becomes way easier. When Gorges is on the other side, teams will send two players to shadow Subban, rendering him nearly useless because he lacks the space to create plays.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:02 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Subban just is not THAT good offensively.

Wiz helped him ALOT last year...
While the latter portion if correct, Wisniewski forced teams to gamble who was more of a threat in the current situation. If they chose wrong, it was a cannon they were digging out of their net. With his departure, Subban is the clear threat and teams are easily able to contain him without fear of their being another bomb slap shot or setup play from Wisniewski. Markov will do wonders for Subban, because it will recreate what we had last season, presuming Subban can shake off his incredibly bad slump.

Frankly, Subban is better offensively than defensively. He simply needs to learn when to let someone else do the work and use his linemates in lieu of go for it alone or wiring a cannon that often misses. Where he is struggling mightily is in his own zone with turnovers or foolish penalties.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:06 PM
  #88
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In the ASG he will have a chance to play with two offensive threats, not just be the one.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:09 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post


Wiz helped him in the same way Markov will when he's back. It's not that Subban is not THAT good offensively, it's that when he's your only offensive threat on D, the other team's job of stopping him becomes way easier. When Gorges is on the other side, teams will send two players to shadow Subban, rendering him nearly useless because he lacks the space to create plays.
With Gill that was true, but with Gorges it's not. Gorges is hardly a PP type, but he's not a lost cause in the offensive zone by any means. I still think there's a 30 point dman in there...

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
With Gill that was true, but with Gorges it's not. Gorges is hardly a PP type, but he's not a lost cause in the offensive zone by any means. I still think there's a 30 point dman in there...
I agree that Gorges has offensive potential. However, let's not kid ourselves, if you have Gorges on one side, a great defensive d-man with limited offense and Subban on the other side, the coverage will be on Subban. Teams will take the risk of letting Gorges take a point shot way before they give Subban an open lane.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:32 PM
  #91
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Notice how much time and space Weber is given on the PP, but when Subban is back on the point they're right in his face.

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11-14-2011, 10:40 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
With Gill that was true, but with Gorges it's not. Gorges is hardly a PP type, but he's not a lost cause in the offensive zone by any means. I still think there's a 30 point dman in there...
Gorges had one of the worst shot percentage in the whole league last season; his accuracy is atrocious. Teams largely do not need to be concerned with him, whereas Subban is obvious. They simply play the odds and nine times out of ten, it works. Gorges is excellent defensively but his offense is well below average.

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11-14-2011, 11:00 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
And yet, the numbers state you're wrong, and observation states you're wrong, and the coach's usage of him indicates you're wrong. But, for sure saying that "Subban has been bad" with no evidence or substantiation is indeed a compelling argument.
By numbers u must be refering to zero goals in 17 games right?

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Old
11-15-2011, 12:27 AM
  #94
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pleks needs to get off the point on the PP totally misusing him. Wake up JM

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Old
11-15-2011, 03:23 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by JOKER 192 View Post
By numbers u must be refering to zero goals in 17 games right?
Because, of course, when discussing how effective a defenseman is, we judge based on their goal output. Thanks for your contributions as always, JOKER 192.

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Old
11-15-2011, 07:11 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Subban just is not THAT good offensively.

Wiz helped him ALOT last year...
Are you talking offensively or on the PP? Because those are two entirely different things. Pk only played with Wiz on the PP.
PK is by nomean a PP QB, so he needs someone else on the other side capable of setting players up.
When you have Diaz, it is quite easy to counter PK.
Same thing with Plek and Weber. Even if the latterone might not be known, he is obviously the shooter, and the former has proven to be very shaky at the point.
Our PP now is simply very easy to defend. That is not a knock on the players, I just think it is poorly structured, and it starts with having your #1 center at the point, a position he clearly has no business being in.

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Old
11-15-2011, 07:27 AM
  #97
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I still think when Emelin is in the lineup, he needs to be on the PP setting guys up, until Markov gets back. Maybe with Subban?

He is a legit passer..as illustrated in basically every youtube video on him.



From 52 seconds on..the way he tees up the puck for his teammates (especially Morozov) is impressive. On top of that, he has an effective shot and gets the puck to the net pretty often.

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Old
11-15-2011, 07:47 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post


Wiz helped him in the same way Markov will when he's back. It's not that Subban is not THAT good offensively, it's that when he's your only offensive threat on D, the other team's job of stopping him becomes way easier. When Gorges is on the other side, teams will send two players to shadow Subban, rendering him nearly useless because he lacks the space to create plays.
Great players find room

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Old
11-15-2011, 08:26 AM
  #99
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Great players find room
Sadly it's not that simple.

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Old
11-15-2011, 08:52 AM
  #100
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A couple of times a game, it's "PK, WTF are you doing?" and sometimes it's "PK, SHUT THE F... UP!" but overall, he's a crazy talent who is still learning the game and he has been very very good overall the past 6-8 games. It's absolutely incredible the minutes he plays for a second year player.

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