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AAA 2011 Frederic McLaughlin semi-finals: #1 St.John's IceCaps vs. #4 Detroit Cougars

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:28 PM
  #1
VanIslander
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AAA 2011 Frederic McLaughlin semi-finals: #1 St.John's IceCaps vs. #4 Detroit Cougars

The Frederic McLaughlin Divisional Semi-Final Round


St. John's Ice Caps

coach Bruce Boudreau

Armand Mondou - Jimmy Carson - John Anderson
Shawn McEachern (A) - Walt McKechnie - Petr Klima
Curtis Brown - David Legwand - Ric Seiling
Keith McCreary (A) - Bill Derlago - Floyd Smith
Real Chevrefils, Dennis Ververgaert

Al MacNeil (C) - Paul Cavallini
Ed Kea - Yuri Shatalov
Dale Rolfe - Jean Potvin
Todd Gill, Brent Burns

Jake Forbes
Frank McCool


vs.


Detroit Cougars

coach Leo Dandurand

Paul Ysebaert - Pelle Eklund - Mariusz Czerkawski
Benoit Hogue - Brian Bradley - Nick Wasnie (A)
Real Lemieux - John Chabot - Willy Lindström
Kris King (C) - Greg Johnson - Jody Hull
Anders Carlsson, Johan Garpenlöv

Jimmy Orlando (A) - Moe Mantha
Jim Niekamp - Thommie Bergman
Pete Goegan - Igor Kravchuk
Magnus Svensson, Bjorn Johansson

Guy Hebert
Hank Bassen


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11-11-2011, 04:29 PM
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Velociraptor
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First off, I'd like to thank everyone who voted for me! Flattered I won the division!

Congrats to jkrx for winning his preliminary matchup. I'm going out tonight, so I won't be providing too much. But I'll post my special teams, as well as some initial thoughts on the series.

St. John's Ice Caps



General Manager: Velociraptor
Head Coach: Bruce Boudreau
Captain: Al MacNeil
Assistant Captains: Keith McCreary, Shawn McEachern


Armand Mondou - Jimmy Carson - John Anderson
Shawn McEachern - Walt McKechnie - Petr Klima
Curtis Brown - David Legwand - Ric Seiling
Keith McCreary - Bill Derlago - Floyd Smith
Spares: Real Chevrefils LW, Dennis Ververgaert RW

Al MacNeil - Paul Cavallini
Ed Kea - Yuri Shatalov
Dale Rolfe - Jean Potvin
Spares: Todd Gill, Brent Burns

Jake Forbes
Frank McCool

PP1: Klima - Carson - Anderson - Cavallini - Potvin
PP2: McEachern - McKechnie - Mondou - MacNeil - Shatalov

PK1: Mondou - Derlago - MacNeil - Kea
PK2: Seiling - McKechnie - Rolfe - Shatalov


I believe this is a very strong 200-foot team, that can get equal work done at both ends of the ice.

The first line includes two fine two-way players, centered by a highly one-dimensional player in Jimmy Carson. With the presence of the two defensive forwards, Carson should be able to grasp some offensive freedom where both of his wingers can either contribute offensively or defensively.

Similar mentality on the second line, Petr Klima is a defensive liability, but he can be an explosive offensive player, and with a reliable two-way player in McEachern and a defensive playmaking centre in McKechnie, Klima should be able to get his desirable offensive chances, and should have a good chance to capitalize on most of his opportunities.

My third line is very defensive minded, with unspectacular, but potential offensive flair. Legwand is sound defensively, and also is known to be somewhat proficient offensively. Curtis Brown doesn't have much to input offensively, but his defense is a key factor to this lines skill. He should be able to grind out some of the Cougars top players, as our desired matchup is our third line vs. Detroit's first. Ric Seiling is a strong defensive player who got recognition for Selke voting during his career.

My fourth line is also more defensive minded, but can also chip in offensively. Bill Derlago had some great years offensively. He also was known for his penalty killing and faceoff prowess. Keith McCreary was a steady, hard-working leader. He will be relied upon to provide the best in both assets of the game. Floyd Smith is unspectacular offensively, but was known as a serviceable two-way player. He benefited from having Norm Ullman on his line as he is great on the corners, so he can surely use Derlago's offense to his advantage.

Both of my spares, Chevrefils and Ververgaert are both offensively efficient players, Ververgaert can also play in a bottom-six position as he is moderate defensively.

My defensive core is predominantly defensive minded, but I do possess a few strong offensive players. Al MacNeil, is more of a defensive defenseman, but he is also fairly capable of finding the forwards' sticks with strong, efficient passing. He's paired with Paul Cavallini who is a strong two-way defenseman who had some great years offensively. Ed Kea and Yuri Shatalov are a rough pairing, Shatalov can occasionally pinch with his blazing speed and Kea will occupy his usual stay-at-home style. They should be a nightmare for the Cougars' offensive lines to cross the blueline.
Dale Rolfe and Jean Potvin are a contrasting pair, as Rolfe was the massive defensive defenseman who didn't do much in the offensive category where Jean Potvin was a shining offensive rearguard who was a huge plus on the power play.

Todd Gill was a tough customer who contributed leadership and offense. Brent Burns is a giant, progressing defenseman who can play efficiently at both ends of the ice.

Jake Forbes is a very underrated goaltender IMO, and besides the fact that Earl Robertson, Forbes eventual successor, won a Stanley Cup, I don't think Forbes is far behind at all, or not even behind Robertson. Frank McCool had a short, but memorable career, with Forbes being a steady goaltender, McCool will not see too much time.

Bruce Boudreau is the coach of this team, I know what most of you are saying (he hasn't accomplished anything besides an Adams?) He turned around a team who was last place a month into the season, and made them into a serious contender. He also seems to get the most out of his players. He was also very respected throughout the league before he was hired as head coach.

That's it for me for now, anybody has any questions I'd be glad to answer. In the coming days I will do my best to try and compare both teams in the series.

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11-13-2011, 10:28 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
First off, I'd like to thank everyone who voted for me! Flattered I won the division!

Congrats to jkrx for winning his preliminary matchup. I'm going out tonight, so I won't be providing too much. But I'll post my special teams, as well as some initial thoughts on the series.
Thank you and congrats to the division title. This will be a hard match up for me.

Detroit Cougars


General Manager: jkrx
Coach: Leo Dandurand

Paul Ysebaert - Pelle Eklund - Mariusz Czerkawski
Benoit Hogue - Brian Bradley - Nick Wasnie (A)
Real Lemieux - John Chabot - Willy Lindström
Kris King (C) - Greg Johnson - Jody Hull
Anders Carlsson - Johan Garpenlöv

Jimmy Orlando (A) - Moe Mantha
Jim Niekamp - Thommie Bergman
Pete Goegan - Igor Kravchuk
Magnus Svensson

Guy Hebert
Hank Bassen

PP1: Ysebeart - Eklund - Czerkawski, Mantha - Kravchuk
PP2: Linström - Bradley - Wasnie, Hogue - Bergman
PK1: Eklund - Hogue, Orlando - Niekamp
PK2: Chabot - Lemieux, Goegan - Bergman
PK3: Johnson - Hull

First off I think we have a lot of similarities, rolling four lines that can defend and score with a couple of one-dimensional charcters here and there. I do think that my team wins in the physical department and you will be punished in the corners when players like King, Lindström, Hougue, Goegan, Orlando and Niekamp is on the ice.

I also belive that my shutdown line Lemieux - Chabot - Lindström is better than yours.

Our defense is built up on speed with Mantha being the blueline catalyst and with snipers like Czerkawski, Hogue and Ysebaert I think we could score on your "weaker" lines while being able to shutdown most of your scoring chances.

Our defense is the roughest collection of rugged defensemen in this draft lead by Jimmy Orlando. This defense will rough you up and keep the puck out of the zone.

In our goal we have Guy Hebert who will take everything that your team gets pass the defense.

We have a swedish quartette consisting of Magnus Svensson, "Böna" Johansson, Garpenlöv and "Masken" Carlsson, who are hungry and waiting for a chance in case of injury.

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11-13-2011, 10:13 PM
  #4
Velociraptor
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First Lines: I won't talk too much about my lines as I explained the reasoning of each line, and what they will be relied on to do. Pelle Eklund is the top offensive player, between Paul Ysebaert and Czerkawski. Similar composition as my line as Ysebaert and Eklund are both proficient defensively, leaving Czerkawski as a one-dimensional player, just like Carson. Based on percentage method, here are what Czerkawski and Carson did in their best years.

Czerkawski's best percentage seasons are: 74, 65, 53, 47
Carson's best percentage seasons are: 87, 82, 73, 56

Czerkawski did play in the dead puck era, but the fact Carson was able to put up explosive numbers and compete with players of legendary caliber in that good fraction of his career, in my opinion makes him a very dangerous offensive player, and the best one in this series.

EDGE: Ice Caps

With the defensive ability on this line, it should be very easy for Carson to get the offensive chances he desires.

Second Lines: From what I can gather from Wasnie, he is nothing special defensively, and Brian Bradley is also very one-dimensional. You need to rely on Benoit Hogue to be the top goal scorer and defensive player on the line, a task that may prove to be too much against a team as defensively capable as the Ice Caps. The line is lacking more grit to retaliate against what the Ice Caps will throw at the Cougars. McEachern and McKechnie will grind the two non-physical players into dust. In addition, they are both being offensively capable and mesh well with the flat out offensive, Petr Klima. I just can't see this line competing defensively with mine, Bradley is a good playmaker and Wasnie seems to be a one-dimensional version of Hogue, but the line lacks two-way ability compared to mine.

EDGE: Ice Caps

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11-13-2011, 11:37 PM
  #5
seventieslord
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My two favourite defensemen on Detroit are both playing on their third pairing... does anyone agree with me here?

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11-14-2011, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
First Lines: I won't talk too much about my lines as I explained the reasoning of each line, and what they will be relied on to do. Pelle Eklund is the top offensive player, between Paul Ysebaert and Czerkawski. Similar composition as my line as Ysebaert and Eklund are both proficient defensively, leaving Czerkawski as a one-dimensional player, just like Carson. Based on percentage method, here are what Czerkawski and Carson did in their best years.

Czerkawski's best percentage seasons are: 74, 65, 53, 47
Carson's best percentage seasons are: 87, 82, 73, 56

Czerkawski did play in the dead puck era, but the fact Carson was able to put up explosive numbers and compete with players of legendary caliber in that good fraction of his career, in my opinion makes him a very dangerous offensive player, and the best one in this series.

EDGE: Ice Caps

With the defensive ability on this line, it should be very easy for Carson to get the offensive chances he desires.

Second Lines: From what I can gather from Wasnie, he is nothing special defensively, and Brian Bradley is also very one-dimensional. You need to rely on Benoit Hogue to be the top goal scorer and defensive player on the line, a task that may prove to be too much against a team as defensively capable as the Ice Caps. The line is lacking more grit to retaliate against what the Ice Caps will throw at the Cougars. McEachern and McKechnie will grind the two non-physical players into dust. In addition, they are both being offensively capable and mesh well with the flat out offensive, Petr Klima. I just can't see this line competing defensively with mine, Bradley is a good playmaker and Wasnie seems to be a one-dimensional version of Hogue, but the line lacks two-way ability compared to mine.

EDGE: Ice Caps
Wasnie wasnt one dimensional. He had speed on his skate and was often running up and down the boards. My second line will be proficient enough. I agree that Carson has an offensive edge compared to Czerkawski but he will be constantly checked by either Eklund or Chabot.

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My two favourite defensemen on Detroit are both playing on their third pairing... does anyone agree with me here?
If you could've seen Orlando in action I think it would change your mind.

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11-14-2011, 08:12 AM
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seventieslord
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If you could've seen Orlando in action I think it would change your mind.
Heh, you make it sound like you've seen him yourself, but you are not 90 years old, right?

Anyway, what am I missing? I see Orlando as a tough guy only, with little evidence he was a standout player. I can buy him as an elite 3rd pairing guy worthy of early selection though (kinda like Jason Smith at the MLD level). But in gterms of guys who deserve the minutes on your team, I think Kravchuk and Goegan have credentials the others lack.

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11-14-2011, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Heh, you make it sound like you've seen him yourself, but you are not 90 years old, right?

Anyway, what am I missing? I see Orlando as a tough guy only, with little evidence he was a standout player. I can buy him as an elite 3rd pairing guy worthy of early selection though (kinda like Jason Smith at the MLD level). But in gterms of guys who deserve the minutes on your team, I think Kravchuk and Goegan have credentials the others lack.
Well, I didnt see him but my father and his friends did. All I know is that he played top minutes for the most part of his career.

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11-14-2011, 09:32 AM
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Orlando did receive a single alternate vote for the All Star Team in 1940-41 and got two votes for the Alt Team in 1942-43. It's not much, but it's something.

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11-14-2011, 10:12 AM
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Wasnie wasnt one dimensional. He had speed on his skate and was often running up and down the boards. My second line will be proficient enough. I agree that Carson has an offensive edge compared to Czerkawski but he will be constantly checked by either Eklund or Chabot.



If you could've seen Orlando in action I think it would change your mind.
But there is nothing that suggests he is physically capable, or is able to be relied on in a defensive role.

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11-14-2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
But there is nothing that suggests he is physically capable, or is able to be relied on in a defensive role.
Quote:
On defense for Detroit was the belligerent Jimmy Orlando, who was then playing his final season in the league. The Montreal-born Orlando was a tough guy who took great joy in leveling opposing forwards — especially brash newcomers like Stewart.
During this first meeting of the season between the archrivals, Stewart dashed down the boards, only to be dumped heavily into the corner by Orlando’s solid check. Stewart jumped to his feet and nailed Orlando with a two-handed slash with his stick. Orlando laughed as referee King Clancy blew his whistle and ordered Stewart to the penalty box.
Considering he was a top-3 defenseman on a stanley cup winning Detroit and wasn't exactly used as a offensive defenseman what conclusions would you draw?

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11-14-2011, 11:40 AM
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Considering he was a top-3 defenseman on a stanley cup winning Detroit and wasn't exactly used as a offensive defenseman what conclusions would you draw?
Still talking about Wasnie, should've indicated that in my post.

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11-14-2011, 11:58 AM
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Still talking about Wasnie, should've indicated that in my post.
Well physically, maybe not, but he could steal the puck from the best of them. Ask Mickey McKay.

Edit: I have to admit that most my information (on Wasnie) comes from non-official sources and is dug out of memory. I'm certain that he was atleast average defensively and that he was very good at stealing pucks. If a big Habs history buff would be present we might be able to settle this argument alot quicker.

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11-14-2011, 12:54 PM
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Well physically, maybe not, but he could steal the puck from the best of them. Ask Mickey McKay.

Edit: I have to admit that most my information (on Wasnie) comes from non-official sources and is dug out of memory. I'm certain that he was atleast average defensively and that he was very good at stealing pucks. If a big Habs history buff would be present we might be able to settle this argument alot quicker.
I'm alright with average defensively, but that line is still not up to par defensively with the Ice Caps. And I'll add more later to prove why they are better offensively as well.

My bottom-six are based off intangibles. Your third line should do very well in matching up with offensive scoring lines, although I must disagree with your comment on your shutdown line being better than mine. I am a fan of the Cougars' line as Willy Lindstrom was someone I underestimated and thought I could get in the AA draft. He's efficient as a two-way forward with intangibles, Real Lemieux was never anything special offensively, but was a good checking forward and Chabot was almost my fourth line centre, but the assets Bill Derlago has, I passed. Chabot is a solid defensive forward, but I believe my line is better, first of all because both wingers, Brown and Seiling received votes for the Selke Trophy on numerous occasions. Even Legwand has garnered a few votes here and there. They all have been recognized as premier defensive forwards in the game, it's very similar to what separates two good positional players, and one receiving All-Star votes and the other player not receiving any consideration for All-Star votes. I believe that I possess the more proficient, better defensive players on my line.

EDGE: Ice Caps

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11-14-2011, 01:01 PM
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I brought this up earlier when he was selected and I'll bring it up again now: why are we to believe that Boudreau is capable of winning this tough series from the bench? His teams have always underachieved in the playoffs, and rather impressively. I'm asking more than trying to convince people otherwise Velociraptor. Could you fix my fears on that?

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11-14-2011, 01:12 PM
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I brought this up earlier when he was selected and I'll bring it up again now: why are we to believe that Boudreau is capable of winning this tough series from the bench? His teams have always underachieved in the playoffs, and rather impressively. I'm asking more than trying to convince people otherwise Velociraptor. Could you fix my fears on that?
Yeah, Boudreau is a guy who looks decent if you go through his resume looking for things to check off. But he sure seems like a coach who manages to get the least out of a talented roster in the playoffs. It might not matter in this series, though, as I'm not sure what to think of Leo Dandurand.

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11-14-2011, 01:35 PM
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Yeah, Boudreau is a guy who looks decent if you go through his resume looking for things to check off. But he sure seems like a coach who manages to get the least out of a talented roster in the playoffs. It might not matter in this series, though, as I'm not sure what to think of Leo Dandurand.
1922-1923 2 1 1 NHL Finals
1923-1924 6 6 0 Stanley Cup Champions
1924-1925 6 3 3 Final
1934-1935 2 0 2 Quarterfinals

I would say he's better than Boudreau.

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11-14-2011, 04:57 PM
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I brought this up earlier when he was selected and I'll bring it up again now: why are we to believe that Boudreau is capable of winning this tough series from the bench? His teams have always underachieved in the playoffs, and rather impressively. I'm asking more than trying to convince people otherwise Velociraptor. Could you fix my fears on that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yeah, Boudreau is a guy who looks decent if you go through his resume looking for things to check off. But he sure seems like a coach who manages to get the least out of a talented roster in the playoffs. It might not matter in this series, though, as I'm not sure what to think of Leo Dandurand.
Luckily I considered playoff success when drafting my forwards, but not my coach. I thought Boudreau was a good candidate because he isn't easy on his players. From watching 24/7, he'd lay that team out if they lost by one goal or four goals, he'd make sure no poor effort was ever acceptable, I'm very aware he has never really achieved playoff success, but he also coaches quite a few players in Washington who just don't play to their regular season standards in the playoffs, Boudreau constantly rides them to play better.

As you can see from this recent article. He's not afraid to take action, now obviously the top offensive weapons of the team will not be benched during the playoffs unless they are a complete and utter liability, because it's not uncommon for them to breakout. It's just guys like Alex Semin and Mike Green have never been able to live up to their regular season peak in the post-season, that's the players issue.

On his often victorious regular season Capitals, some players on the team just can't contribute in the playoffs what they usually can in the regular season. Some of my players (Carson, Klima, Anderson, Legwand, Cavallini, etc.) have numbers that show they either elevate or continue their level of play in the playoffs. And there is definite reason to believe that with players who can contribute well in the post-season, and tend not to disappear, should be able to minimize the effect that Boudreau doesn't get the most out of his team in the postseason.

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11-14-2011, 05:45 PM
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Fourth Lines: My primary concern for the Cougars' fourth line is offense, I don't know where it's going to come from. Kris King was a penalty minute sponge who was pretty rugged and can play well defensively, he has nothing to bring to the table offensively. Greg Johnson was average defensively, but was a premier playmaker, the real question is, who is he going to set up? Jody Hull? I don't think he really belongs in the AAA Draft, he had one 20-goal season, and besides that he was a very unspectacular player who didn't put up very high penalty minutes to indicate he wasn't a very good two-way forward, he's just a plain energy line player who won't provide much benefit for your team in my opinion. When it comes to intangibles, your line has a few from King and Johnson. In overall effectiveness, I think it's safe to conclude that the Ice Caps fourth line is much better than the Cougars' line.

MODERATE EDGE: Ice Caps

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11-15-2011, 10:08 PM
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Defense:

Both first pairings are pretty solid. The Cougars feature the rugged Jim Orlando who was a feared hitter, while Moe Mantha was a solid offensive defenseman who should be able to do a fine job pioneering the PP. Besides Orlando's one alternate all-star vote, there isn't much accolade recognition. Paul Cavallini was 8th in Norris voting in 1989-90, a very rare feat to find in a defenseman this late in the draft (Goegan's 6th is also impressive). Cavallini's all-around play makes him a very solid top-pairing defenseman, he is very adequate at both ends of the ice, and he's paired with a classic defensive defenseman in Al MacNeil, who gained All-Star votes in 1962-63, as well as 1963-64 and a 10th place finish in Norris voting. I look at Mantha as a huge question mark defensively, he had speed, but Orlando will have to do all of the physical play on this first pairing, and he may not be up to the challenge against the Ice Caps' relentless attack.

I'm not too familiar on either of the Cougars' second pairing defenseman. Niekamp appeared to be a solid two-way defender who could play physical, and Bergman also appears to have been a decent two-way defenseman. The Ice Caps second line is more of a shutdown line, as explained in the team syllabus. Both pairings are effective in different ways.

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11-17-2011, 08:44 PM
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Didn't get to finish my comparisons, but here are the reasons why the Ice Caps will advance to the next round:

- Four, two-way competent lines that are consistent.
- Better two-way forwards.
- Strong top-6 with lots of offensive potential, and will get pucks to the net.
- Strong defensive core that provides a strong physical game.
- A strong, steady goaltender who has a reliable defense in front of him.
- Good special teams units that will capitalize on any opportunity presented.

Good debate jkrx, best of luck!

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11-19-2011, 10:35 PM
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The winner, in 5 games, is St. John's.

3 stars: Carson, McNeil, Hebert

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