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Lucic Hit on Miller Saga continues. Fraser weighs in, Julien Speaks.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:17 PM
  #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tede View Post
If Lucic got one game, how would you guys feel about it? I am not trolling, I wanted to know if you guys felt it should be over 5 games, or if you would be happy as long as he got something. Cheers.
A game, fine. I was hedging on 2, given the way he's handing out things left and right for all sorts of contact in pre-season. The guy he hit is hurt with a concussion. The play itself was against the rules. Seems right in his "shanaban" wheelhouse. And yet, he comes out with comments that show he is flying by the seat of his pants. It's like having Campbell in there again.

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11-14-2011, 10:21 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Yeti of the Flow View Post
Not to incite anything, but shouldn't everyone on this board be more upset at Cole for running into Enroth this evening? There was no reason to. Or are you only upset because of the injury caused?

Difference between steam rolling a Goaltender ....and clipping one and having your Goaltender sell it well.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:23 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tede View Post
If Lucic got one game, how would you guys feel about it? I am not trolling, I wanted to know if you guys felt it should be over 5 games, or if you would be happy as long as he got something. Cheers.

I would of been fine with a 5 minute major and Game Misconduct....

but since the Refs f'd that up... I was looking for 1 or 2 games.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:29 PM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
Do not agree with the call. Even a two game suspension says that collisions with goalies are not acceptable.
Funny you should mention that... didn't the NHL suspend Vaclav Varada for not being able to avoid Jose Theodore in the famous "Cheapess Ting I Ever See" incident? The one where the puck was along the wall at the blueline and Theodore was sliding in on his stomach?

Why yes, yes they did.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:31 PM
  #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Difference between steam rolling a Goaltender ....and clipping one and having your Goaltender sell it well.
But, regardless of opinion one was a race for a puck, and the other was a goalie standing still in his crease.

Though the rule is that you can't hit a goalie and the onus is on Lucic you cannot deny that Miller played a part in that contact. Enroth played no part in the contact made by Cole. I'd be more upset from the Cole hit because it was entirely unnecessary.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:32 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tede View Post
If Lucic got one game, how would you guys feel about it? I am not trolling, I wanted to know if you guys felt it should be over 5 games, or if you would be happy as long as he got something. Cheers.
Hockey is unique among the four 'major sports' in that the absolute dominating strategy is to injure the other teams most important players deliberately. The plays that enable such a strategy exist within the frame work of the game.

[Football has massive impacts but the nature of play makes 360 degree threat radius unlikely. And players also move at 1/3rd the speed making those collisions 1/9th as powerful (F=M*a for the physics impaired).]

The purpose of penalties and suspensions is to keep that strategy from being carried out. Penalties in a particular game are woefully inefficient at suppressing an injure stars strategy. Even a 5 minute major is only going to collect a goal 50% of the time. Over the course of an 82 game season or even 7 game playoff series a 50/50 shot at a goal is worth taking out a star.

Suspensions serve one purpose; they concentrate the cost of violating the rules on an individual player. In game penalties don't hurt an individual they hurt a team collectively. A tough player who gets 3 years in the NHL making around minimum might find a 6 or 10 game suspension a serious financial affair.

If you're not going to suspend players then running goalies (or stars) isn't just a valid tactic; it's the only tactic. And any team that doesn't employ it is hamstringing themselves with some silly notion of honor or fair play. The academic side of me would be intrigued if some team took this notion to its logical conclusion. Much like I applauded the Flyers for taking the 1-3-1 to its logical conclusion.

Frankly i'm not much interested in a game where the best plan is deliberate injury. Rollerball (the original) was fun enough for a 2 hour movie, but not a hobby. I spend a lot (too much) time and money on this sport and it's really not what it was when I enjoyed it. Between the Ryder hit in the ECF and the entire SCF hockey disgusted me. The NHL won't miss my interest or money; they're following their own path below NASCAR, MLS and College baseball in the National Conciseness.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:38 PM
  #557
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Kerry Fraser: Shanahan missed the call and sent the wrong message

Fraser: Shanahan missed the call and has sent wrong message

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I believe he really missed this call and has sent the wrong message. Like it or not, goalies enjoy preferred treatment similar to endangered species in the wild; at least up until this latest decision. It would now appear they are subjected to the same rules as any other player once they leave the "protection of their nest!" Lindy Ruff has every right to call foul on this non suspension. Milan Lucic should have been suspended for the next two (2) games.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:40 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti of the Flow View Post
But, regardless of opinion one was a race for a puck, and the other was a goalie standing still in his crease.

Though the rule is that you can't hit a goalie and the onus is on Lucic you cannot deny that Miller played a part in that contact. Enroth played no part in the contact made by Cole. I'd be more upset from the Cole hit because it was entirely unnecessary.

Semantics.
You asked for our opinion... I gave it. I didn't ask for yours.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:41 PM
  #559
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Kerry Fraser: Shanahan missed the call and sent the wrong message

http://tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=380468



Quote:
I believe he really missed this call and has sent the wrong message. Like it or not, goalies enjoy preferred treatment similar to endangered species in the wild; at least up until this latest decision. It would now appear they are subjected to the same rules as any other player once they leave the "protection of their nest!" Lindy Ruff has every right to call foul on this non suspension. Milan Lucic should have been suspended for the next two (2) games.
Quote:
The next portion of the rule applies to the Lucic hit on Miller where it goes on to state, "A goalkeeper is not 'fair game' just because he is outside the goal crease area. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an opposing player makes unnecessary contact with a goalkeeper.
Quote:
In plain and simple terms this translates to DON'T TOUCH THE GOALIE.
Quote:
This was not a race to a loose puck where a collision resulted through a tie in the footrace. This was not "incidental contact" nor was any effort, let alone a "reasonable effort" made by Milan Lucic to avoid Ryan Miller after the goalkeeper released the puck.

This was very clearly a hard shoulder body check finished with elevated hands, delivered by an attacking forward on a goalie that did not expect to be hit under protection of the playing rules. Any other player would expect to be hit on the finish of a check - a goalkeeper does not. I deem it a dangerous play and it creates an even more dangerous precedent.

Quote:
A strong message should be been sent throughout the hockey community with the assessment of a two (2) game suspension to Milan Lucic through supplementary discipline. Players (and more importantly goalies) would know that the League still considers them endangered and will continue to protect them from full blown body checks. It now appears that hunting season is now open. The license only takes "two minutes" to fill out and can be completed from the penalty box.
I love that last line


Hey Shanny, is Fraser being irresponsible?


Last edited by joshjull: 11-14-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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Old
11-14-2011, 10:42 PM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadedpony View Post
I loved this article. Not because he agrees with me, but because he puts in black and white just how WRONG Shanahan is. In a video interview, or was it in the article, Shanahan says something to the extent that he's not a rule maker but a rule enforcer. Fraser points out exactly that the rule already exists. He made no effort what so ever to avoid the contact (and actually "finished the hit") and therefore should have been suspended.

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11-14-2011, 10:43 PM
  #561
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Wait, that Kerry Fraser?!

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:44 PM
  #562
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Loved his response! It was very irresponsible though

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:46 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadedpony View Post

Excellent explanation by Kerry Fraser.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:46 PM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti of the Flow View Post
But, regardless of opinion one was a race for a puck, and the other was a goalie standing still in his crease.

Though the rule is that you can't hit a goalie and the onus is on Lucic you cannot deny that Miller played a part in that contact. Enroth played no part in the contact made by Cole. I'd be more upset from the Cole hit because it was entirely unnecessary.
Hitting a goalie in/out of crease is penalized (2 min)
Both hits were clean (that is, they did not target head) so no further discipline is appropriate

But Lucic's hit was "dirty" and the current rules don't distinguish that.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:47 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Ellis Problems View Post
Wait, that Kerry Fraser?!
Yep. As much flak as he'd getting for his reffing skills at times, he's actually a pretty smart guy.

joshjull, Hope you don't mind me adding "Kerry" to the thread title

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:49 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
Yep. As much flak as he'd getting for his reffing skills at times, he's actually a pretty smart guy.

joshjull, Hope you don't mind me adding "Kerry" to the thread title
Not at all

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:49 PM
  #567
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Kerry got this spot on..... 10000%

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:56 PM
  #568
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Let the fun begin! Given how Buffalo lost 3/5ths of the game's Fraser ever reffed for them, it's not like the guy has some favor to play for the Sabres. He was notorious for jobbing them.

But this is priceless.

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11-14-2011, 10:57 PM
  #569
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Shanahan on Lucic ruling, slams Buffalo’s ‘irresponsible’ comments

And here's the best part:
Quote:
If I felt there was intent on Lucic's part to injure … Like I said, if I saw an arm flare out, an elbow flare out or his path deviate in any way toward Miller -- leaving his feet, targeting the head, none of which was present -- I would have considered that intent
So you didn't see any intent at all there Shanny? Oh no, I see how it went, Lucic just told you exactly what he was thinking at the time and he was completely honest with you seeing as he woudn't mind getting suspended a game or two

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:58 PM
  #570
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i guess the main board doesn't want to hear USA! this is typical nhl. do they want goalies to get run like miller ? no. Will they think differently for some other incident? hopefully.

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11-14-2011, 11:00 PM
  #571
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Huh. I was never a Fraser fan during his time as a ref, but that was pretty solid.

It's also pretty funny how much reaction this is stirring up around the league. I'd love it if this blew up into a huge pain in the ass for Shanahan to handle.

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11-14-2011, 11:01 PM
  #572
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Curious has to how MR. Shanahan's conversation with Lucic went.

Shanahan - So...you hit Miller
Lucic - I didn't mean to
Shanahan - OKAY! LOL!


Last edited by vcv: 11-14-2011 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Not necessary
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Old
11-14-2011, 11:01 PM
  #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Huh. I was never a Fraser fan during his time as a ref, but that was pretty solid.

It's also pretty funny how much reaction this is stirring up around the league. I'd love it if this blew up into a huge pain in the ass for Shanahan to handle.
Hopefully it gets seriously discussed at the GM meeting tomorrow.

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Old
11-14-2011, 11:04 PM
  #574
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Nice. I hope this doesn't go away for awhile, and Shanahan admits to being an idiot the next time a goalie gets run down. As far as I'm concerned, anything that happens to a goalie from this point forward is his fault.

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Old
11-14-2011, 11:15 PM
  #575
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Haha, not sure which mod made me the OP but thanks even though it wasn't necessary. That and my last post I meant to throw in here: Shanahan calls Sabres “completely irresponsible”

Open season has begun!

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