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Cole's Plus.... Game Discussion (Pens vs. Canes 11.12.11)

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:36 PM
  #51
66-29-33
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Can't. Staal is an offensive sped
When Crosby gets back i wanna see these lines.

Crosby-Neal-Malkin
Kunitz-TK-Staal

As our top 6. We will **** up their gameplan all night long with these bizaro moves and it will get us wins. It's brilliant.

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
When Crosby gets back i wanna see these lines.

Crosby-Neal-Malkin
Kunitz-TK-Staal

As our top 6. We will **** up their gameplan all night long with these bizaro moves and it will get us wins. It's brilliant.
Yeah totally. Or maybe put Letang in TK's spot.

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:39 PM
  #53
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+ Pens fans at the game, We rocked that ****.
+ Staal in third

I didn't get the love for Skinner. I saw a cherry picking, weak player. His dive was pretty bad too.

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:40 PM
  #54
66-29-33
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Yeah totally. Or maybe put Letang in TK's spot.
Someone did mention Letang should play on the wing, maybe you're onto something....

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by sEmowashere View Post
+ Pens fans at the game, We rocked that ****.
+ Staal in third

I didn't get the love for Skinner. I saw a cherry picking, weak player. His dive was pretty bad too.
He has some slick moves.

But our defense made him look really good tonight

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
When Crosby gets back i wanna see these lines.

Crosby-Neal-Malkin
Kunitz-TK-Staal

As our top 6. We will **** up their gameplan all night long with these bizaro moves and it will get us wins. It's brilliant.

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by sEmowashere View Post
+ Pens fans at the game, We rocked that ****.
+ Staal in third

I didn't get the love for Skinner. I saw a cherry picking, weak player. His dive was pretty bad too.
Oh, so all the loud fans moved to Carolina is what you're saying? Shucks


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Old
11-12-2011, 09:49 PM
  #58
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I sat 10 rows behind Ward for the first and third. He was ridiculous in the first. Jordan Staal was a monster in the third. His shortie was one of those that turned slow-motion and was a thing of beauty. Malkin looked good all game but getting stoned by Ward several times early had him frustrated and you could see it(typical Geno). Tangradi looked good for the most part.

Skinner is the real deal but dove twice and the Canes fan that I went with was signaling dive before I was.

It was a fun game to be at and about 40% Pens fans. There were large pockets in both ends and it was about 50/50 on the side behind the benches where it's all season ticket holder.

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Old
11-12-2011, 09:51 PM
  #59
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As someone who has only been to a few Pens games(and never one at home) I know that whenever I get the chance to see my team I get really excited. Sometimes I think that people who get to see them all the time are spoiled.
And anyway, all we southern bandwagon fans ever do is yell "SHOOT" so it can get pretty loud

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I don't really know how to do a plus/minus because the game was so up/down. Some guys played great and crappy within the same game. I'll just touch on a few quick things:


1) I loved the passion to battle back from 3-0 down. That is something I didn't see last season. This team will not take "no" for an answer. They won't win 'em all, but they sure as hell will battle til the end.

2) Yeah... BJ had a few great saves to keep us in it, but then he just couldn't keep it up and let some softies in. I feel bad for the guy but we do ask a lot more from him than we do from other backups.

3) Geno is so passionate and looks great from time to time, but then he cannot finish and struggles defensively. I don't know what to take from it. Some guys on this board will love his game and some will hate it. I'm impartial. I just don't think Geno has come out of his shell yet this season.

4) Please change the Martin/Letang pairing. Come on now...we know it doesn't work.



5) The most important thing that I saw happen was Jordan Staal had an unreal third period. He was unstoppable. If he can find that game for a consistent amount of time, we are going to be great when Sid comes back. Watch out NHL... we are coming.



Extra note: Skinner is the real deal. He's going to have a very long career.
1. You will note that we're both seeing the same thing with Malkin. Frankly, I think anyone however they fall on the +/- with him sees that something isn't quite there yet. As I wrote last night, the burst, the first step, the work 1 on 1 that we saw in the preseason and early isn't there. BTW, on the Root Sports feed, did you notice him grimacing after the first? I really think the knee is a part of it. How much, we can debate, but either it really is bothering him and he's trying to tough through it during this 'scar tissue breaks up naturally' period, or there's a bigger problem. I tend to think it's the former.

2. Kris Letang was an absolute nightmare tonight. The defense was self-evident, but another place he killed the team was on the PP. If you're going to play center point on a successful PP, then you need to be able to do two things: One, you have to have a good, hard shot on net. Two, you have to be able to make passes for one-timers right on the shooters stick. Much as I love Tanger, he does neither well.

Side note: I put this in the PP thread, but I'll repeat it here: When Sid is back and assuming Sully is o'k, my top PP unit is 5 forwards, Geno center point, Sully left half wall, Sid right half wall, Kunitz net, Neal slot (basically the same PP with the same movement and rotating we've got now with Sid taking Geno's place and Geno taking Tanger's place). I know it means a greater risk of short handed chances against and of Coach Disco developing a permanent ulcer as a result, but I think the reward outweighs the risk.

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
- Johnson
- Martin
+ I have an ample supply of Jack Daniel's



As I said in the GDT I hate to play this game...but if Fleury plays tonight we'd have 2 points right now. I'm a notorious goalie apologist (played goalie growing up, so it comes natural), but Johnson played like feces rolled in **** tonight...and Martin constantly being out of position didn't hurt. Letang didn't really help, but it was usually Martin's assignment that was left streaking untouched to the damn net.


That 5 on 3 was also stinking out loud. I want to complain about the complete lack of shots, and I will, but the main issue was that one timers were being served up, but not taken, because the passes were to the skates instead of the stick. We had about 3 perfect plays set up only to have the one-timer pass go to the skates. That's unacceptable.


I still...you don't ****ing pokecheck Chad LaRose...and to completely miss the pokecheck by about 3 feet...good lord, Brent.
Give credit where it is due . . . that 5 on 3 sucked because of Letang. His passes to Sullivan we're o'k, but, for the love of God, can he give Geno one accurate one time pass every ten or so tries at least?

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:14 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by nTsplnk View Post
The problem with that 5 on 3 imo is Sully isn't on the point like he is on the 5 on 4.

Letang is growing into a great D-man but the PP qb aspect really needs work.

Sully should be up there with Malkin on the 5 on 3 not Letang.
Personally, I want Letang off the top PP period. He's not a threat to score from center point, and his one time passing blows chunks.

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:19 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
To anyone saying Staal can't play with Malkin can eat ****. Our best forward tonight in all three zones.

I guess it's a positive that our goalie played like a backup all game, we gave up multiple odd man rushes and we still should have won the game. Malkin had far too many cracks at the net not to bury one.

Ward's pretty good.
Kind of hard not to think that the hockey gods were repaying Ward for that little bit of fun they had with him in the '09 finals.

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:26 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that 10-4-3 isn't that good? I mean, technically that's 10-7.
It's only on pace for 110 points.

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:34 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
It's only on pace for 110 points.
Well, yeah, there is that . . .

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:36 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Personally, I want Letang off the top PP period. He's not a threat to score from center point, and his one time passing blows chunks.
Letang is fine as a passer.


The fact is this PP lives and dies by Sullivan. He's creative, he's a threat to score, he makes great passes and he opens up the ice.

Letang has been secondary to our PP this year

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:41 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by nTsplnk View Post
Letang is fine as a passer.


The fact is this PP lives and dies by Sullivan. He's creative, he's a threat to score, he makes great passes and he opens up the ice.

Letang has been secondary to our PP this year
I think you missed my point. I wasn't commenting on Sullivan's value. BUT, Letang is the fulcrum between Sullivan and Geno. He's not moving the puck well between them (especially when going to Geno), and his lack of a shot lets the PK cheat to cover Sully to Geno (and visa versa) passes.

And, yes, Letang at the center point is a horrid passer. He's more likely to put a one-time pass into Malkin's skate than he is on target and at the right pass for Malkin to take a one time shot.

Plus, again, Letang is NOT a shooter. The PK doesn't have to respect his shot from the point, and that lets them cheat lower in the coverage than they would be allowed to do if you had a player at center point with a good, hard shot.

EDIT: I also tend to think that 'this PP lives and dies with Sullivan' is a bit hyperbolic. He helps make it go because he brings the puck up and plays in a place (and is a threat as a shooter and passer) that allows the Pens at long last to use all of the offensive zone. BUT, how did the Pens PP do in the 7 games Geno missed? Fact is that even now the PK cheats. They're conceding Letang shooting from the point, and his passes to Malkin and even Sullivan lack precision and pace and are otherwise telegraphed, which in turn prevents them from consistently getting off clean one-timers.

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:46 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I think you missed my point. I wasn't commenting on Sullivan's value. BUT, Letang is the fulcrum between Sullivan and Geno. He's not moving the puck well between them (especially when going to Geno), and his lack of a shot lets the PK cheat to cover Sully to Geno (and visa versa) passes.

And, yes, Letang at the center point is a horrid passer. He's more likely to put a one-time pass into Malkin's skate than he is on target and at the right pass for Malkin to take a one time shot.

Plus, again, Letang is NOT a shooter. The PK doesn't have to respect his shot from the point, and that lets them cheat lower in the coverage than they would be allowed to do if you had a player at center point with a good, hard shot.

EDIT: I also tend to think that 'this PP lives and dies with Sullivan' is a bit hyperbolic. He helps make it go because he brings the puck up and plays in a place (and is a threat as a shooter and passer) that allows the Pens at long last to use all of the offensive zone. BUT, how did the Pens PP do in the 7 games Geno missed? Fact is that even now the PK cheats. They're conceding Letang shooting from the point, and his passes to Malkin and even Sullivan lack precision and pace and are otherwise telegraphed, which in turn prevents them from consistently getting off clean one-timers.
Sullivan has made the PP much better. We still had chances in those 7 games. Geno is an extra weapon, but if Sullivan gets hurt, our PP will be much much worse.

He calms it down, he makes good passes, he makes the smart play, he has a shot, albeit he's pass first.

Agreed on Letang. but it will come. He just needs to work on it. We could try Nisky up there, but that's about it

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:48 PM
  #69
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was very heartened by what i saw tonight from tangradi.

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:52 PM
  #70
Tender Rip
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Stop blaming the pairings. I'm not a fan of them myself, but if there's a knucklehead in each pairing that's going to **** things up, it doesn't matter who they're playing with.
I find this a very surprising post. You are saying that neither what you see on the ice or past performance matters ?

The pairings are bad because Letang-Martin and Orpik-Engelland don't cover each others weaknesses and magnifies each others flaws.
We know this. It isn't new.

I got some grief here when noticing that I didn't like these pairings when they were announced as the ones on the ice for practice the day after Michalek went down, but it has been playing out largely as feared. Just fortunate that the forwards and Fleury have been good.

Martin was great against Dallas and terrible in this one, but it was also on Letang who was lousy early on against Dallas as well.
Mostly though, I believe that if the pairings were different it would be easier to cover up periodic lousiness.
Orpik is also running around more than he would with Letang, because with Engelland he feels like he has to do more to aid the transition game. With Letang he can just stay back and swoop out occasionally for a big hit, while lending Letang license to roam. If Martin plays with Engelland (or typically Michalek), he has much more liberty to pinch and join the rush.

Again, there's nothing new to this. I honestly don't get why Bylsma insists on it.

Anyway, plus/minus being a dodgy stat.... whatever. Martin's 'underwhelmingness' so far might be inflated by his stats, but it is a fact that his pairing was giving up the most goals of any when he was with Michalek and now that's the case with Letang also. Too many brain farts also for someone whose effectiveness is predicated on not having them.

For someone with no offense... this is bad. The man has to shape up.

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Old
11-12-2011, 11:01 PM
  #71
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only saw stuff here and there and then the highlights.
+ my #1 homey really ripped that shot for the Pens first goal, and he not only got the shot off quicker but he was also quicker to get to his spot and he kept drifting to keep the angle through the defense. It was awesome in other words.
He also won something like 4 out of the last 5 faceoffs he took toward the end of the game even though he only ended up 12-13.

But really I wanted to ask about Tangradi. I heard elsewhere that he had one of his better games but of course I didn't see enough of the action.
So how did Tangradi look?

+ We can have Sid now?

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Old
11-12-2011, 11:05 PM
  #72
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Welcome to my top 5 posters list sir. I love this line! And thanks to Big for clearing it up for those who were confused
I 100% take this statement back after reading some posts you started tonight

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Old
11-12-2011, 11:19 PM
  #73
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Is it just me, or do we not play as well in front of Johnson as in front of Fleury?

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:09 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I find this a very surprising post. You are saying that neither what you see on the ice or past performance matters ?

The pairings are bad because Letang-Martin and Orpik-Engelland don't cover each others weaknesses and magnifies each others flaws.
We know this. It isn't new.

I got some grief here when noticing that I didn't like these pairings when they were announced as the ones on the ice for practice the day after Michalek went down, but it has been playing out largely as feared. Just fortunate that the forwards and Fleury have been good.

Martin was great against Dallas and terrible in this one, but it was also on Letang who was lousy early on against Dallas as well.
Mostly though, I believe that if the pairings were different it would be easier to cover up periodic lousiness.
Orpik is also running around more than he would with Letang, because with Engelland he feels like he has to do more to aid the transition game. With Letang he can just stay back and swoop out occasionally for a big hit, while lending Letang license to roam. If Martin plays with Engelland (or typically Michalek), he has much more liberty to pinch and join the rush.

Again, there's nothing new to this. I honestly don't get why Bylsma insists on it.

Anyway, plus/minus being a dodgy stat.... whatever. Martin's 'underwhelmingness' so far might be inflated by his stats, but it is a fact that his pairing was giving up the most goals of any when he was with Michalek and now that's the case with Letang also. Too many brain farts also for someone whose effectiveness is predicated on not having them.

For someone with no offense... this is bad. The man has to shape up.
But for the sake of argument, isn't Letang right now the best fit for Martin, in terms of being able to cover for his gaffes with his speed and skating?

And for the past few weeks, as far as pure defense goes, Engelland has been our best player, so isn't he a good fit for insulating Brooks from his mistakes?

Right now, I don't see confusion or unfamiliarity being the reason for the mistakes being made, but just a bad decision here and there where it wouldn't make a difference as to who the partner is.

And the fact is, if we really sit back for a moment, the defense has played very well this season. Breakdowns happen every so often, and when I watch other games, it seems to me that the Pens actually don't make as many in comparison to other teams.

Maybe it's the homer in me, but for ****'s sakes it seems like on the few breakdowns we do have, the puck tends to go in the net almost every time.

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:21 AM
  #75
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+ Staal. He's becoming a hell of a player. I know he already was to some degree, but he's gotten even better this season.

+ Loved the Asham fight. He did well for a guy giving up 6 inches and over 20 pounds to Allen.

+ The hitting. The Pens threw some huge hits, especially early in the game.

- Fighting all the way back from 0-3 down. Had all the momentum in the world and still managed to choke the game away in regulation.

- Our defense playing like retards at times. Way too many breakdowns in this one.

- Johnson wasn't as sharp as usual and consequently we didn't get away with all those defensive breakdowns.

- There are few goalies I dread us playing against more than Cam Ward. It seems like he steals at least one or two games from us every year.

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