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Neal - Staal - Malkin

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:26 PM
  #1
theicebox
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Neal - Staal - Malkin

I wanted to get some diverse hfboards perspective on the potential of this line we saw Bylsma role-out tonight. It has size that we may have not seen since Lemieux-Jagr.

Neal, Staal, and Malkin just dominated physically. Is this a good long-term idea?

Kunitz - Crosby - ??? --> propose your options (sullivan, kennedy, dupuis)
Neal - Staal - Malkin

With our bottom-six looking so strong, this could potentially overwhealm opponents when fully healthy.

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11-12-2011, 10:32 PM
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KIRK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theicebox View Post
I wanted to get some diverse hfboards perspective on the potential of this line we saw Bylsma role-out tonight. It has size that we may have not seen since Lemieux-Jagr.

Neal, Staal, and Malkin just dominated physically. Is this a good long-term idea?

Kunitz - Crosby - ??? --> propose your options (sullivan, kennedy, dupuis)
Neal - Staal - Malkin

With our bottom-six looking so strong, this could potentially overwhealm opponents when fully healthy.
It was one period of hockey against a Carolina team that opened the third laying back and frankly was having issues dealing with Staal and especially Geno all night, so I'd be inclined not to get overly excited one way or another.

I'm still a fan of the three center model, which also overwhelms opponents if memory serves . . .

At the same time, I do expect to see combos like this used for extended periods or maybe even for a shift here or there within games to exploit matchup advantages once Sid is back.

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11-12-2011, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theicebox View Post
I wanted to get some diverse hfboards perspective on the potential of this line we saw Bylsma role-out tonight. It has size that we may have not seen since Lemieux-Jagr.

Neal, Staal, and Malkin just dominated physically. Is this a good long-term idea?

Kunitz - Crosby - ??? --> propose your options (sullivan, kennedy, dupuis)
Neal - Staal - Malkin

With our bottom-six looking so strong, this could potentially overwhealm opponents when fully healthy.
To be honest, why not?

Why are we saying that these lines should absolutely be set in stone? Why not have Staal play shifts with Malkin and cooke and kennedy? Why should he be stuck to one line?

We can have a dynamic triplet when we want it.

Why lock Staal to Malkins wing? We can play them together when we need some scoring in a pinch.

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11-12-2011, 10:37 PM
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KIRK
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Originally Posted by nTsplnk View Post
To be honest, why not?

Why are we saying that these lines should absolutely be set in stone? Why not have Staal play shifts with Malkin and cooke and kennedy? Why should he be stuck to one line?

We can have a dynamic triplet when we want it.

Why lock Staal to Malkins wing? We can play them together when we need some scoring in a pinch.
1. It was Malkin playing on Staal's wing, FYI . . .

2. I think the mixing and matching is what will happen when Sid returns. I think this is what Bylsma intoned this offseason, that he'll run three centers but also will use Sid, Geno, and Staal in combos like he saw TB use it's big three in the playoffs.

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11-12-2011, 10:37 PM
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Kunitz-Crosby-Sully
Neal-Staal-Malkin
Cooke-Park-TK
Jeffrey-Vitale-Dupuis/Asham

-Compared to-


Kunitz-Crosby-TK
Sully-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Staal-Dupuis
Jeffrey- Vitale/Park-Asham


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Old
11-12-2011, 10:48 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruncher11 View Post
Kunitz-Crosby-Sully
Neal-Staal-Malkin
Cooke-Park-TK
Jeffrey-Vitale-Dupuis/Asham

-Compared to-


Kunitz-Crosby-TK
Sully-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Staal-Dupuis
Jeffrey- Vitale/Park-Asham

Or you could go with Kunitz-Sid-Sully, TK-Geno-Neal, Cooke-Staal-Duper . . .

Anyway, if I'm the other team, that three center set up scares me a lot more because the matchups are a lot harder. Frankly, I'd rather defend a line where Staal centers Malkin followed by a diluted third line than have to defend a second line centered by Malkin and THEN a third line centered by Staal.

That said, I do see Bylsma mixing it up some depending upon matchups and flow. A game like this, where Carolina is smaller and not deep on the back end, I'd be inclined to play Malkin with Staal more. Other situations, the opposite.

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Old
11-12-2011, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. It was Malkin playing on Staal's wing, FYI . . .

2. I think the mixing and matching is what will happen when Sid returns. I think this is what Bylsma intoned this offseason, that he'll run three centers but also will use Sid, Geno, and Staal in combos like he saw TB use it's big three in the playoffs.
I know, I typed it in a hurry. Show me some respect man

My point stays the same. Why lock these guys to one line. Have a general line for them but we can mix em up every once in awhile, and if it sticks stick with it

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Old
11-12-2011, 11:08 PM
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BrookswasHere44
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Of course i havent seen Neal with Crosby but i looove him with Malkin...so...whether its Malkin-Staal-Neal or Sully-Malkin-Neal i like the Malkin-Neal combo..i cant even remember if im on topic

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Old
11-12-2011, 11:26 PM
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I thought Jordan had a great game, but I think that's jumping the gun a bit.

I remember when Jordan was on Malkin's wing for an entire game against Philly, he had a goal and an assist. People were raving about how Jordan and Malkin reconnected like it was 06-07 again. Then he did nothing for the next four games with Malkin and they were split up.

The Staalkin thing MIGHT work, if Jordan can improve his playmaking ability. I'm not giddy over Malkin playing wing, but if it works, then it works. Trust me, I'd like nothing more than to see the Staalkin thing work. I think it'd be cap friendly and it'd help bring Jordan into a top-six role while allowing Malkin to be more dynamic offensively.

If it does work:

Sullivan - Crosby - Neal
Kunitz - Staal - Malkin
Cooke - Vitale - Kennedy
Dupuis - Adams - Asham
Park

Those would be my lines. Kunitz wasn't bad when he played with Malkin in the preseason, I'm pretty sure he had 3 points (1G, 2A) in four games on Malkin's wing. Kunitz and Staal already have proven chemistry.

It also allows Neal and Sullivan to remain together, two players who I think have a little chemistry themselves.


Last edited by JRS91: 11-13-2011 at 09:23 AM.
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Old
11-12-2011, 11:40 PM
  #10
Dan Barr
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I don't like the idea of Vitale being 3rd line center. I think the top 6 is good enough with Kennedy playing one of the wing spots and Staal centering the 3rd line. Also, there's the obvious matchup benefit to having one of Crosby, Malkin or Staal on the ice for 85% of the game.

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11-12-2011, 11:42 PM
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Unless Geno has decided to not play defense from here on out, I'd like to see us roll the 3C model and doubleshift Staal and Geno together. They're very difficult to handle.

I loved Tangradi/Vitale tonight. Give them a player like TK and that could be a nuts third line in the future.

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Old
11-12-2011, 11:52 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Unless Geno has decided to not play defense from here on out
Remind me of a goal against where Geno is to blame. It certainly didn't happen in any of the last two games.

Just because he 'looks' different from the rest of our balls to the wall players doesn't mean he doesn't play D. He some times has bad turn overs, granted, but he plays D.

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11-13-2011, 12:41 AM
  #13
DegenX
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
That said, I do see Bylsma mixing it up some depending upon matchups and flow. A game like this, where Carolina is smaller and not deep on the back end, I'd be inclined to play Malkin with Staal more. Other situations, the opposite.
This. The more flexible our line combos the better.

While I think Sully brings a lot to this team, I don't really see the chemistry there with Malkin and Neal. Not hating on Sully, and the last two games are a small sample size, but the line seemed to click better without him.

I would also rather see Tangradi than Park.

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11-13-2011, 01:43 AM
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I don't think the lines should be set in stone. DB is a smart enough coach to know when he needs three centers, or when he can shift Malkin RW and play Staal with Neal and Geno depending on waht the situations call for

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11-13-2011, 01:48 AM
  #15
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Remind me of a goal against where Geno is to blame. It certainly didn't happen in any of the last two games.

Just because he 'looks' different from the rest of our balls to the wall players doesn't mean he doesn't play D. He some times has bad turn overs, granted, but he plays D.
He's been lazy in the defensive zone, period. He's gotten better the last two games.

I've watched Geno enough to know the difference between his style of defensive play and him just being lazy. He's got a ways to go to get back to where he was in 09.

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11-13-2011, 01:52 AM
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*shrug* I don't think Geno is a liability at all.

Neal-Staal-Malkin is a pretty huge line.. although I don't want it together permanently, I wouldn't mind if it was thrown together occasionally.

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11-13-2011, 01:59 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He's been lazy in the defensive zone, period. He's gotten better the last two games.

I've watched Geno enough to know the difference between his style of defensive play and him just being lazy. He's got a ways to go to get back to where he was in 09.
Oh! OK. We're criticizing his defense not because we actually have any problems with his D in these past games, but because earlier there were problems and overall he isn't playing like in 09. Got it.

If he had scored on half the occasions where Ward made superb stops on him in this one, this board and the whole forum would have been "Geno is BACK!"
There will be plenty of occasions to rip into Geno defensively I'm sure, but I don't get why it is an issue after nights where.... it wasn't an issue.

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11-13-2011, 02:11 AM
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Neastaalkin...unleast the beast!




Listen, Geno in the defensive zone today is no different than he was when he was supposedly amazing. He's always been inconsistent there, and it hasn't led to anything invariably awful so far, rather he's been the victim of a lot of great goaltending to this point than anything.

Staalkin worked tonight, for a bit, I'm still not a proponent of it full-time...but it's impossible to deny that it works in bursts...just like Geno with Sid. In a perfect world I want all 3 to be centering lines.

I also never thought I'd be in this position...Joe Vitale is not a third line center. Considering we all see Jeffrey as a winger in the NHL and not a center we just traded the only guy with third line capabilities in the system unless we're all happy with Richard Park holding that position for the season outside of Staal...I'm not necessarily against that, and I'd prefer that to Letestu given the way things have gone the past while, but still...we're not at the point where third line center is going to be replaced so easily as so many people like to think, and as much as I love the guy this board overrates Vitale to all hell and back. Vitale is the perfect fourth liner, but he doesn't have nearly enough offensive abilities to be a third liner for this team on a consistent basis. He is, in so many ways, Talbot's replacement...and we all *****ed to hell when Talbot played above the fourth line. Vitale has far less skill than Talbot ever had.

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11-13-2011, 02:12 AM
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Staalkin is like the killer in a slasher film. Every time you think it is dead, it jumps up and comes at your for more. It is about as appealing as the killer in the slasher films as well. I thought Crosby coming back finally put this idea in its grave. Silly me.

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11-13-2011, 02:22 AM
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Staalkin is like the killer in a slasher film. Every time you think it is dead, it jumps up and comes at your for more. It is about as appealing as the killer in the slasher films as well. I thought Crosby coming back finally put this idea in its grave. Silly me.
Yeah they looked awful tonight

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11-13-2011, 02:26 AM
  #21
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Yeah they looked awful tonight
Sid was invisible, as well.

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11-13-2011, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
Yeah they looked awful tonight
We've had this debate before, over many threads and thousands of pages. Staalkin was borne of a severe lack of quality wings. That is no longer an issue, and as a long term plan makes zero sense.

Kunitz-Crosby-Kennedy
Sullivan-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Staal-Dupuis
Asham-Vitale-Adams

Or something similar is a scary good balanced lineup, with more of a chance of success than a stacked couple of lines which limit what separates Staal from the rest and makes him special, his defensive play.

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11-13-2011, 06:20 AM
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Why oh why would the Sullivan-Malkin-Neal line be broken up?

Going from something that absolutely works to something that might work doesn't make a whole heap of sense. The only reason I can think to break them up is if, upon Sid's return, there is ZERO chemistry with Kunitz and whoever is on his right side.

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Old
11-13-2011, 07:55 AM
  #24
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Park would center the 3rd line before Vitale. Jeffrey, when healthy again and back to form, should center it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Or something similar is a scary good balanced lineup, with more of a chance of success than a stacked couple of lines which limit what separates Staal from the rest and makes him special, his defensive play.
And he loses his defensive ability centering a line higher? These are the dumb anti-Staalkin comments that get me posting on this subject in the first place. I never want to, but I cannot ignore stuff like this.

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Old
11-13-2011, 08:07 AM
  #25
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I think people get carried away with situations like this. It IS nice to have that option as a means of throwing other teams off their games *at random times*, but there is no way it makes sense to roll two of our best C on the same line shift after shift all season long. Use it when it makes sense tactically.

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