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The Saint Mikael Granlund hypetrain part 2 (saucer passes turning to wine!)

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:07 AM
  #226
ThatGuy22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neblod Zin View Post
Ville Leino scored 77 points in 55 (1.4 ppg) games before coming to NHL and look how his career stats progressed after that. Granlund ppg is now 1.28, so he's not a sure thing to light NHL to fire even if he's younger. I know it's "only" the stats, but still something to think about. NHL is a whole new territory compared to Sm-Liiga.
Awful comparison. Leino was 24 years old when he did that, what did he do at Granlunds age. 19 points in 56 games. If Granlund were to stick around for another four years you don't think he would destroy the 1.28 PPG or Leino's 1.4 PPG. Dude probably doesn't even have his man Muscles yet.

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12-02-2011, 10:08 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Differend year. Not the same thing. Janne pesonen had 78pts in 56 games and won scoring race against Leino. Now Pesonen is better( he's now regular in NT) than 4 years ago. Pesonen has 0,76 ppg and Granlund 1,28 PPG. Think about that. FEL is much better now than 4 years ago. Bad comparison.
Leino dominated the league as a 25 year old while Granlund is young

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12-02-2011, 10:22 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Neblod Zin View Post
Ville Leino scored 77 points in 55 (1.4 ppg) games before coming to NHL and look how his career stats progressed after that. Granlund ppg is now 1.28, so he's not a sure thing to light NHL to fire even if he's younger. I know it's "only" the stats, but still something to think about. NHL is a whole new territory compared to Sm-Liiga.
Well, Ville Leino played left wing and didn't play defense at all. Granlund doesn't have that luxury. Back then Jokerit didn't have any scoring depth and had all of their best players in one line. Hypothetically, if HIFKs first line was Granlund-Wirtanen-Peltonen, MG would score much more.

Compare Leino's and MG's international stats before making the jump to NHL:

Leino
EHT: 18. 0+0=0
WC: 0. 0+0=0

Granlund
EHT: 6. 1+6=7
WC: 9. 2+7=9

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12-02-2011, 10:28 AM
  #229
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It is not the whole and only truth that every prospect will increase his stats year after year after his drafting - at some point the development will stagnate (and it's not exactly known when it's going to happen). In Sweden Magnus Pääjärvi is good comparable, as he was a great prospect and star player in WC after his draft year, and after that the progress hasn't been as good as expected.

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12-02-2011, 10:39 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Neblod Zin View Post
It is not the whole and only truth that every prospect will increase his stats year after year after his drafting - at some point the development will stagnate (and it's not exactly known when it's going to happen). In Sweden Magnus Pääjärvi is good comparable, as he was a great prospect and star player in WC after his draft year, and after that the progress hasn't been as good as expected.
While thats true, at some point they will stall and be what they are, to suggest at 20 he is not going to get better between 20 and say 25 is crazy. And Pääjärvi, while good in my opinion wasn't as good as Granlund and He did have 30 points as a Rookie for a very bad Edmonton team. Even him its not fair to say he has stalled, sophmore slump or just a slump in general he could easily bounce back and realize his potential. Granlund won't be immune to those types of things either.

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12-02-2011, 10:45 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Neblod Zin View Post
It is not the whole and only truth that every prospect will increase his stats year after year after his drafting - at some point the development will stagnate (and it's not exactly known when it's going to happen). In Sweden Magnus Pääjärvi is good comparable, as he was a great prospect and star player in WC after his draft year, and after that the progress hasn't been as good as expected.
Magnus racked his points against weak countries at group stage. Granlund was more visible and stacked points where tournament was in crucial moment. QF, SF, Finals 5pts in 3 games. That is quite clutch and stepping up when needed. Magnus slowed down and wasn't nearly as good as Granlund was against good countries. Magnus had 0.37PPG at SEL before going to NHL, Granlund has PPG at FEL. Of course differend league but the difference should not be that big. We are talking about 2 differend prospects and Magnus isn't close with Granlund in offensive game. I think most of swedes actualy agrees with me. Granlund has phenomenal vision. Theres only couple players in whole world who has Granlund-like vision, that is with the puck and without the puck. Once again bad comparison. Granlund is special, he will rack points from the beginning of NHL-career. I think that he will put up lots of points then after than slow down a bit because of the 82 game schedule.

Granlund is lock and written in the stone for top 6 minutes in Minnesota, maybe top 3 and we fins know that Granlund gonna be in the #1 PP aswell. He gonna pot up +40pts alone in PP especially as a winger. Antti Miettinen was an 40pt guy in top 6 in Minnesota. Granlund is so much better than him on the PP and offensively. Granlund +60 pts easily without injuries.


Last edited by thomast: 12-02-2011 at 10:55 AM.
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12-02-2011, 12:56 PM
  #232
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And just a bad game tonight. 4 - 0 loss to Kalpa.

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12-02-2011, 02:36 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
And just a bad game tonight. 4 - 0 loss to Kalpa.
Expected. Can only score against weak teams. He's becoming Paajarvish faster than i had predicted.

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12-02-2011, 02:53 PM
  #234
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Kalpa has lots of footspeed. Should one get worried? Is Granlund still too slow against these faster teams? On the other hand he played well at EHT (& WC)... I dunno. He can't win all the games by himself.

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12-02-2011, 04:12 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Kalpa has lots of footspeed. Should one get worried? Is Granlund still too slow against these faster teams? On the other hand he played well at EHT (& WC)... I dunno. He can't win all the games by himself.
That's quite an assumption to make, and to me, this is what I understood by your post:

Granlund didn't score any points agains Kalpa. Therefore, Granlund played a bad game. Kalpa is a fast team, and Granlund played a bad game, therefore Granlund does not play well against faster teams.

See what I did there? Sounds pretty dumb doesn't it? but to me, that's what your post meant.

There's always variance with this stuff. You can play a mediocre game and score 2 goals and play very well and go 0+0. You don't have to assume he had a bad game just because of not registering any points.

Or maybe he did have a bad game. But you need to elaborate more to make that claim.

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12-02-2011, 04:32 PM
  #236
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sure. reports say it was rather bad game. i didn't make any strong claims, if you read the previous post by walle you'll see...

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12-02-2011, 04:43 PM
  #237
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Granlund pointless? WOW!

Now he must suck ass!

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Old
12-02-2011, 04:47 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
sure. reports say it was rather bad game. i didn't make any strong claims, if you read the previous post by walle you'll see...
I was just making a point about an illogical assumption

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12-02-2011, 05:45 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by ElHefe View Post
Granlund pointless? WOW!

Now he must suck ass!
Must he really? I thought you have to suck ass after you fail at college, sports and life

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12-02-2011, 06:12 PM
  #240
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Personally as a Wild fan I'm worried that his fluttery saucer passes just won't cut it in the NHL.

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12-02-2011, 06:40 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
Personally as a Wild fan I'm worried that his fluttery saucer passes just won't cut it in the NHL.
Personally im worried because I gave a girl some money to get this party started but she is nowhere to be founded.
**** you Denmark!!!

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12-02-2011, 06:47 PM
  #242
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Personally im worried because I gave a girl some money to get this party started but she is nowhere to be founded.
**** you Denmark!!!
its Denmark...are you sure it was a girl?

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12-02-2011, 06:55 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Kalpa has lots of footspeed. Should one get worried? Is Granlund still too slow against these faster teams? On the other hand he played well at EHT (& WC)... I dunno. He can't win all the games by himself.
I actually paid 9€ to watch that ****tygame, whole HIFK played like beer-leaguers. NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL.

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12-02-2011, 08:11 PM
  #244
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its Denmark...are you sure it was a girl?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Luckly tomorrow we'll be heading to Switzerland. If you can't trust a Swiss is there a reason to live?

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12-03-2011, 05:24 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
Personally as a Wild fan I'm worried that his fluttery saucer passes just won't cut it in the NHL.
Let's cut the crap and put the issue to rest, finally. Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEDA-oQbur0
at 1:35 you can see a "typical Granlund's pass". It's a good pass but not the finest example of a "genuine" saucer pass. But then again, it might be even better. I mean, isn't a "technically sound" saucer pass a little bit (more) "vulnerable"? I think it is slower and easier to pick in the air than that kind of pass you see Granlund giving here.

Check out these and compare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZiiLzS-agY

http://www.leijonat.fi/index.php/vii...ysyoettoe.html

The guy in the first vid says something like "a wrist shot is too hard and too difficult to catch". But this means only that a saucer pass is easier to catch by any OPPOSITE player also. Thus, a long range proper saucer pass is slower, worse and easier to catch by an opponent than the real Granlundian "semi-wrist shot pass". End of discussion.


Last edited by Loffer: 12-03-2011 at 10:02 AM.
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12-03-2011, 07:05 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Differend year. Not the same thing. Janne pesonen had 78pts in 56 games and won scoring race against Leino. Now Pesonen is better( he's now regular in NT) than 4 years ago. Pesonen has 0,76 ppg and Granlund 1,28 PPG. Think about that. FEL is much better now than 4 years ago. Bad comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Magnus racked his points against weak countries at group stage. Granlund was more visible and stacked points where tournament was in crucial moment. QF, SF, Finals 5pts in 3 games. That is quite clutch and stepping up when needed. Magnus slowed down and wasn't nearly as good as Granlund was against good countries. Magnus had 0.37PPG at SEL before going to NHL, Granlund has PPG at FEL. Of course differend league but the difference should not be that big. We are talking about 2 differend prospects and Magnus isn't close with Granlund in offensive game. I think most of swedes actualy agrees with me. Granlund has phenomenal vision. Theres only couple players in whole world who has Granlund-like vision, that is with the puck and without the puck. Once again bad comparison. Granlund is special, he will rack points from the beginning of NHL-career. I think that he will put up lots of points then after than slow down a bit because of the 82 game schedule.

First of all, Pesonen was a better player 07-08 and 08-09, he had 82 points in 70 games in the AHL. And after seeing his games, he was just able to do so much more with the puck back then. the fact that he is a regular on NT has nothing to do with his skills, it's about Jalonens system of having mostly the same players in NT to keep the chemistry.

I do have to agree that the level of sm-liiga might have gone up a little bit, but not really that much.

Now the seocnd thing that bothered me was that you say Granlund got it in the latter stages of the tournament, but then again we played Norway in the QF and he got 0+2 there, which isn't that great.

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12-03-2011, 07:56 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by SaekkiPaelli View Post
Now the seocnd thing that bothered me was that you say Granlund got it in the latter stages of the tournament, but then again we played Norway in the QF and he got 0+2 there, which isn't that great.
Finland scored four goals against Norway and Granlund got two primary assists. Not too shabby for a 19yo kid, if you ask me.


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12-03-2011, 08:53 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by SaekkiPaelli View Post
Now the seocnd thing that bothered me was that you say Granlund got it in the latter stages of the tournament, but then again we played Norway in the QF and he got 0+2 there, which isn't that great.
Wow, i can't believe you just said that. Did you even see his 2 assists, both were amazing saucers to Immonen.

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12-03-2011, 09:22 AM
  #249
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Did you even see his 2 assists, both were amazing saucers to Immonen.
They were no saucers. The term is just used too loosely, there is hardly another notion as inflated as "saucer pass" in the hockey jargon. Not every pass is a saucer pass, not every pass leading to a goal is a saucer pass. You could even argue that this is not a saucer pass (at 1:35) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEDA-oQbur0 (check out my previous message). So, not every (fluttering) pass flying over the ice is a saucer pass. If it were it would make no sense to teach kids the specifics of saucer pass. It would be enough to say: just flip the puck to a team mate with your stick, right?

Rather, the execution of a proper saucer pass should be explained briefly as follows: by moving your stick forward let the puck slide slightly from the heal towards the toe of the blade, then snap it (sharply) so that the puck flies neatly through the air and lands flat to a team mate's stick...

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12-03-2011, 09:43 AM
  #250
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I agree with Rynryn; those fluttering saucers, combined with his inability to play vs. fast teams, spell B-U-S-T. Granlund + for Kadri now GMCF!

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