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ATD2012 rules discussion thread (see post 169 for the latest proposed rules)

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Old
12-30-2011, 10:08 AM
  #101
TheDevilMadeMe
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If this thing has too much overlap with the HOH top defensemen project, I can't participate. When are we starting?

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12-30-2011, 10:09 AM
  #102
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If this thing has too much overlap with the HOH top defensemen project, I can't participate. When are we starting?
I say let's start February 1st , sounds more official.

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12-30-2011, 10:12 AM
  #103
BenchBrawl
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If this thing has too much overlap with the HOH top defensemen project, I can't participate. When are we starting?
sorry for double post.

not to mention the 1st round took a month last time , how much time do you really need to pick up your first round and even 2nd round pick? You have enough knowledge to do it with little time so it should give you some time to complete the defensemen project.

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12-30-2011, 03:48 PM
  #104
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I think we should start it on Monday January 23rd 2012 at 12 PM ET. Let's cap it at 36 teams but aim for the even number of 32. As to trades there should be a review committee of the senior members of the ATD community as to not have any lopsides trades. Looking forward to doing this next year.

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12-31-2011, 12:37 PM
  #105
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
I think we should start it on Monday January 23rd 2012 at 12 PM ET. Let's cap it at 36 teams but aim for the even number of 32. As to trades there should be a review committee of the senior members of the ATD community as to not have any lopsides trades. Looking forward to doing this next year.
I can agree with this. We'll finish up the HoH defenseman project during round 3 of the ATD. That's fine.

We'll aim to have the draft order released by Friday, Jan 20 so people have the weekend to consider draft positions and trades

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12-31-2011, 01:53 PM
  #106
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True. At least you had several thousand posts on other boards, first though

Some GMs come in with less than 50 posts and get their own teams! Those are the guys who are most likely to abandon their teams (or be sock puppets...)

Maybe a minimum post count of something like 100 to get your own team?
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
100 is pretty laughable , I would say 1000.

It also depends how strong you think the core of the ATD community is , if you think it's strong enough you can force co-gming for rookie GMs without putting the thing at risk.If we have a lot of teams coming in you have to force co-gm'ing because another 40 teams draft will be too much in my opinion.We absolutely have to avoid having GM that quit on their team and I will go as far as to say we should avoid getting GMs that get the majority of their picks late and doesn't participate that much , making ridiculous picks that completely screw a player position in an all-time sense.There's reach and there's major reach like the Sundin case last year.

Finally , I don't think post count is what matters , it's more what we know about the posters , the only p-lace to recruit is in the history of hockey forum and ask the regulars that aren't participant in the ATD to at least take a look at it and re-evaluate their positions on not participating.
These are the only posts I found on a requirement for a minimum post count to GM your own team.

For some reason, I had thought we decided on a 500 post minimum count. But I guess that was just me deciding to myself that it was a good number. I don't think we really discussed it.

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12-31-2011, 01:56 PM
  #107
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
These are the only posts I found on a requirement for a minimum post count to GM your own team.

For some reason, I had thought we decided on a 500 post minimum count. But I guess that was just me deciding to myself that it was a good number. I don't think we really discussed it.
can you temporarily close the sign up thread? Just so we have 3 or 4 days to make sure we agree on the criterias?

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01-01-2012, 10:41 PM
  #108
TheDevilMadeMe
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How are these for the proposed rules? I based this off last draft, but changed the rules for trading to what we talked about.

I am assuming a 32 team draft, so I used the timetable from ATD2010. If we get more teams, we can adjust the time table to give shorter windows in the middle of the draft. The only difference is a 2 hour deduction for missing a 12 hour clock - there really is no reason not to leave a list in the first 2 rounds if you won't be around.

What do you all think about a 4 hour guaranteed minimum like we did in earlier drafts? We went down to 1 hour minimum last draft, and IMO, the last few rounds were a mess.

Quote:
1). The draft will last 25 rounds. You must draft 2 goalies, 6 defensemen, 12 forwards, a coach and 4 extra picks.

2). The time windows will be tight but reasonable.

12 hour clock for the first two rounds, (sending a shortlist to another GM highly encouraged here)
then 10 hour clock for rounds 3-8,
then 8 hour clock for rounds 9-14,
then 6 hour clock for rounds 15-20,
then 4 hour clock for rounds 21-25

One hour time window deduction for each skipped pick (two hour deduction for missing a 12 hour clock), with a minimum 4 hour clock guaranteed regardless of deductions.

3). Trading is to be reasonably fair and balanced and lopsided trades will need to be re-worked or dropped. This is at the discretion of the trade committee.

Trading while on the clock is discouraged and will be penalized like a missed deadline, so if you do it, you better be sure that's what you want.

4). Regular season rankings MUST BE VOTED ON by at least one GM (if the team is co-GM'd) per team. The penalty if not done is a lowering in the standings because we would also be ranking our own teams in our own divisions (e.g., most teams will rank their own team 1st in their own division; if a team doesn't vote they loose out on a 1st place vote opportunity and hence their team's ranking will be lower than it could have been). All teams make the playoffs. 4th & 5th seeds play a 2-game series to narrow the field to 32.

5). REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFF VOTING TO BE A SET RESPONSIBILITY.

6). NO MENTIONING UNDRAFTED PLAYERS!!!

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01-01-2012, 10:45 PM
  #109
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I would directly go to 8 hours clock at round 3.

If you feel it's unreasonable , I would say make it 8 hour clock at round 6 , when everybody completed their starting line-up.

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01-02-2012, 12:17 AM
  #110
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If we have a month to prepare, can we shorten the clock for the first few rounds? Even for the new guys, it should be pretty obvious who is going where at least for the first round. There's a month to prepare a list and a strategy...the whole round should be done in one day. I know it's not that simple (ie. if there is a huge run on forwards in your division, do you take the best/a certain defenseman even though there is another center you have ranked higher on the list, etc.), but it's just painful to have to wait 10 hours for someone who didn't send their list to make the 4th overall pick when even a typical poster on the main boards could figure out who should go in that spot. Just an idea.

I like the four hour minimum though. One hour was kinda crazy, and unpredictable.

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01-02-2012, 11:08 AM
  #111
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I don't think I like shortening the clock for the first 2 rounds. It can be devastating to your teams fortune to miss a pick in round 1 or 2. But it's just as annoying for the rest of us when someone does, which is why I upped the penalty for missing a 12 hour clock to 2 hours.

I like benchbrawl's second idea. In the past, the 10 hour clock has gone on too long:

12 hours for rounds 1-2
10 hours for rounds 3-5
8 hours for rounds 6-14
6 hours for rounds 15-20
4 hours for rounds 21-25

Thoughts?

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01-02-2012, 11:12 AM
  #112
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As part of more 'informal rules', I want to see stuff on conduct, committment, and goals of the ATD, regardless of how common sense they might seem:

-Outlining how large an undertaking being a GM is and how one must stay all the way through. (For new GMs).

-Emphasize clearly that this is more about gathering information about hockey history than it is about winning.

-No complaints about how winners are determined, and rankings made, and supposed voter bias to occur during the draft. Do it before, or do it after.

-Outlining being respectful and not letting oneself get out of hand or personal in their arguments.

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01-02-2012, 11:17 AM
  #113
TheDevilMadeMe
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Well, we definitely aren't allowing true rookie GMs this time to fly solo. New GMs need 500 posts minimum, which MAY be waived by participation in a lower draft. Or they can co-GM with a "veteran."

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01-02-2012, 12:44 PM
  #114
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't think I like shortening the clock for the first 2 rounds. It can be devastating to your teams fortune to miss a pick in round 1 or 2. But it's just as annoying for the rest of us when someone does, which is why I upped the penalty for missing a 12 hour clock to 2 hours.

I like benchbrawl's second idea. In the past, the 10 hour clock has gone on too long:

12 hours for rounds 1-2
10 hours for rounds 3-5
8 hours for rounds 6-14
6 hours for rounds 15-20
4 hours for rounds 21-25

Thoughts?
To be honest man 10 hours is ridiculously long.You just know there's gonna be at least 3 or 4 guys who will ALWAYS use their entire clock , and that's still 2 or 3 picks a day which is slooooooow.I mean if you're that busy leave a damn list or just don't participate.

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01-02-2012, 12:46 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
As part of more 'informal rules', I want to see stuff on conduct, committment, and goals of the ATD, regardless of how common sense they might seem:

-Outlining how large an undertaking being a GM is and how one must stay all the way through. (For new GMs).

-Emphasize clearly that this is more about gathering information about hockey history than it is about winning.

-No complaints about how winners are determined, and rankings made, and supposed voter bias to occur during the draft. Do it before, or do it after.

-Outlining being respectful and not letting oneself get out of hand or personal in their arguments.

To be honest I'm sure even some veteran GMs are 50/50 on that one.

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01-02-2012, 01:26 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Well, we definitely aren't allowing true rookie GMs this time to fly solo. New GMs need 500 posts minimum, which MAY be waived by participation in a lower draft. Or they can co-GM with a "veteran."
I think Veteran GMs, myself included, forget this stuff sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
To be honest I'm sure even some veteran GMs are 50/50 on that one.
In action, yes. But the ATD was originally designed to be about history to my knowledge, and I think we can all intellectually see the fleeting nature of the competition vs the more permanent gains in the study of hockey history the ATD does, and intellectually see which really matters more.

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01-02-2012, 01:32 PM
  #117
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
I think Veteran GMs, myself included, forget this stuff sometimes.



In action, yes. But the ATD was originally designed to be about history to my knowledge, and I think we can all intellectually see the fleeting nature of the competition vs the more permanent gains in the study of hockey history the ATD does, and intellectually see which really matters more.

The bad thing is if competition makes one so much dishonestly biased toward his players and against players of the other teams that he will make dishonest claims and stuff like that ( and I saw it ) but except that , competition in itself should only put the players at their right positions over the years.

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01-02-2012, 01:45 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
The bad thing is if competition makes one so much dishonestly biased toward his players and against players of the other teams that he will make dishonest claims and stuff like that ( and I saw it ) but except that , competition in itself should only put the players at their right positions over the years.
I'm not saying the competition is unnecessary or doesn't do good; and indeed, those bias claims are a great way to challenge pre-coneived notions on player. Just that it should be outlined, so it's not questioned, that the competition, as in winning, is not more important than history, and is merely a way to augment it.

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01-02-2012, 01:57 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
I'm not saying the competition is unnecessary or doesn't do good; and indeed, those bias claims are a great way to challenge pre-coneived notions on player. Just that it should be outlined, so it's not questioned, that the competition, as in winning, is not more important than history, and is merely a way to augment it.
agreed

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01-04-2012, 01:11 AM
  #120
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any nominations for commish? any volunteers?

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01-04-2012, 01:41 AM
  #121
BenchBrawl
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any nominations for commish? any volunteers?
will probably be a committee.

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01-05-2012, 02:40 PM
  #122
TheDevilMadeMe
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What do you guys think of the idea discussed last time (that we didn't do) where we can pick our draft positions?

Everyone lists their top 5 preferred draft positions and we try to come up with an order based on that? People who don't care get random draft positions of what is left.

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01-05-2012, 02:52 PM
  #123
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I'd be all for that.

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01-05-2012, 03:05 PM
  #124
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
What do you guys think of the idea discussed last time (that we didn't do) where we can pick our draft positions?

Everyone lists their top 5 preferred draft positions and we try to come up with an order based on that? People who don't care get random draft positions of what is left.
Disagree with this.I say let's keep it random.

If not , what about putting the top four team of last year in the bottom 4 position?

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01-05-2012, 03:08 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Disagree with this.I say let's keep it random.

If not , what about putting the top four team of last year in the bottom 4 position?
That's hardly helping anything as they will be some of the better teams because of the snake draft format.

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