Ugh, sorry for that, I mixed that up pretty bad, then. I would throw in there that Beauch was kind of unproven without Niedermayer himself, as well, and with Wis having taken over that spot would have been used in a very different matter. That said, you did show that I have some memory-issues regarding that time, so I'll refrain from going into details... Seems like a fair point of yours, to say the least.
I think that's the way he should be looked at, as well, at this point. Good to hear.
Haha no worries, it was that offseason, just at the draft a little bit prior. I always regretted not going into the season with 4 proven Top 4 guys, and I was always a big Beauch fan, so naturally I wanted him resigned.
And glad we agree on Cogs. Hes been far from impressive so far, but weil give him at least a few more games until we start the "Trade Cogliano" thread to go along with this one.
Carlyle has done an awful job this year, every year it's the same mantra, every year it's not being executed.
Every year since 2008-09 he's been handed a sub par roster with little depth and yet he has only missed the playoffs once since then. Last year every single media person predicted us to be at the bottom of the conferences. Yet Carlyle managed to get career years out of virtually everyone on the roster and managed to squeak us in to get home advantage.
Murray identified offensive depth and us sucking at faceoffs as areas he would address this offseason. Yet he didn't do anything about either. Cogliano is not the answer to our woeful depth or the faceoff issue.
I couldn't give a **** if Carlyle goes or not, I just want a GM who actually communicates with their fanbase with what they're trying to achieve and I would prefer someone doesn't try and force the softest, most ineffective bottom 9 (outside of Selanne) in the NHL on their fans.
This team sucks in the standings and are boring to watch. I got through the disney days because Kariya and Selanne could at least put on a show, this team is boring as hell right now.
Subpar roster? Murray has given this guy FOUR elite forwards, an ELITE goaltender, he's had a no.1 Dman since the day he arrived. He's given this guy Fowler, there is PLENTY of talent on the team, to suggest it's subpar is a joke.
For 6 years, the post game interview from him, and this team is the same "WE DIDN'T PLAY 60 MINUTES"
No team ever plays 60 minutes. Look on every single teams GDTs, all fans complain about that when they lose and often if they win.
Yeah, plenty of top end talent (all of which he inherited apart from Fowler who fell into his lap). Top end talent doesn't mean **** when there is absolutely no depth. Outside of the slumping start this year, Carlyle has gotten everything he can out of his top players.
Agreed about the depth, but Carlyle has also gotten jack and squat out of the power play, and with the elite talent he has for it they should have been able to get enough goals to have won at least another 3 games. That CAN be pinned on Carlyle.
Agreed about the depth, but Carlyle has also gotten jack and squat out of the power play, and with the elite talent he has for it they should have been able to get enough goals to have won at least another 3 games. That CAN be pinned on Carlyle.
Yep but he's managed to get plenty out of them every other year he's been here. It's the first time they've all gone into an extended slump (normally the slow starts only last 5-10 games, not 15-20) and the lack of depth is really showing now that the big guys aren't scoring.
We're just lucky they haven't had any really subpar seasons from the big three yet which seems to happen to a lot of stars around the league. They've been consistent for the most part but if things keep going like this we may see the first year they're not among the top in the league in scoring.
No team ever plays 60 minutes. Look on every single teams GDTs, all fans complain about that when they lose and often if they win.
Yeah, plenty of top end talent (all of which he inherited apart from Fowler who fell into his lap). Top end talent doesn't mean **** when there is absolutely no depth. Outside of the slumping start this year, Carlyle has gotten everything he can out of his top players.
Do you think Carlyle has no input into the roster? he's been given plenty of talent, and continually fails to get more out of the depth players. It's funny how Beleskey and McMillan both had really good rookie years, but then regress the more the play under him
Do you think Carlyle has no input into the roster? he's been given plenty of talent, and continually fails to get more out of the depth players. It's funny how Beleskey and McMillan both had really good rookie years, but then regress the more the play under him
So they had good rookie years in spite of him and are now playing badly because of him? That doesn't make any sense. Name one depth player that has struggled under Carlyle who has consistently excelled on other rosters. Most of the retreads that Carlyle can't get anything out of normally find themselves in the minors or on other teams fourth lines within a year of them leaving anaheim.
So they had good rookie years in spite of him and are now playing badly because of him? That doesn't make any sense. Name one depth player that has struggled under Carlyle who has consistently excelled on other rosters. Most of the retreads that Carlyle can't get anything out of normally find themselves in the minors or on other teams fourth lines within a year of them leaving anaheim.
No i'm saying, these players who looked promising, have somehow gotten worse, under his watch. I am saying they have shown talent, but for some reason seem to regress. There is plenty of blame to go around, but to say he has been given subpar talent, in my view is not correct
No i'm saying, these players who looked promising, have somehow gotten worse, under his watch. I am saying they have shown talent, but for some reason seem to regress. There is plenty of blame to go around, but to say he has been given subpar talent, in my view is not correct
Well you need to look around the league and compare our bottom 8 forwards to most other teams bottom 8. We live and die by RPG & Teemu and when RPG doesn't fire we don't have the required depth to overcome it.
He should be fired for the sole fact he sent Foster out for a shoot out!
This entire debacle cant be laid squarely on RC's feet but he has a large part of it. I am concerned at the fact that this team gives ups so many shots in the slot that it has to be a weakness in his scheme. He also doesnt seem to make any real in-game adjustments.
That being said, Barstool has not acquired the best players for RC's system. There seems to be a giant disconnect between Barstool and RC and RC and the players. And that is a huge problem.
I actually blame both. Murray definitely hasnt fixed our weaknesses even when he acknowledged them in the offseason. Our team is small and weak, with not enough talent.
However, Carlyles strategy just isnt good. We give up possession to the other team so many times every game. What's the point of all this emphasis on faceoffs when we just give the other team the puck every line change. Also, dump and chase is just as dumb imo. We are just giving up possession only to chase the puck to try to win possession back. THEN, we only win it back half the time. It's also predictable because that is all we do. We have no other offensive plan. I honestly believe, although there is a lack of talent, we would produce more offensively with a better game plan.
I have no problem with Carlyle. The only person I would have considered replacing him with was Tippet before he joined Phoenix. Otherwise we'd have to go with an unknown.
Murray on the other hand I have a problem with. I don't like the constant budget moves. If Samuelli doesn't want to spend top dollar anymore he should realize that he can't keep so many top end salaries and make some more depth moves.
We can't go deep in the playoffs without some more depth in the forward lines.
Not a fan of Hitchcock. Yeah, I've heard he's changed but who knows how true that is, and his system is worse than Carlyle's. RC's system is exciting if he has the right players.
One guy out there I like is Michel Therrien, but I'm not necessarily on the fire RC wagon yet.
Oh and another thing. This team is terrible at things every NHL player should be good at. Mainly passing. Such a small thing kills our entire offensive momentum. When a player has to change their momentum to receive a pass that was slightly off it messes up the rush and causes turnovers. When a player has to take the puck off his skate and settle it down, that extra second the offensive chance gets screwed up most of the time for whatever reason...the hole in the D closes, or they get picked up by a backchecker, etc.
That is most certainly the coaching! If they arent making tape to tape passes, have them do that all practice every practice until they get it right. There's no excuses for that. And dont even give me the talent excuse because RPG have sloppy passing as well. And there's other examples besides passing that could be worked on in practice but im drawing a blank right now.
Subpar roster? Murray has given this guy FOUR elite forwards, an ELITE goaltender, he's had a no.1 Dman since the day he arrived. He's given this guy Fowler, there is PLENTY of talent on the team, to suggest it's subpar is a joke.
For 6 years, the post game interview from him, and this team is the same "WE DIDN'T PLAY 60 MINUTES"
Also, dump and chase is just as dumb imo. We are just giving up possession only to chase the puck to try to win possession back. THEN, we only win it back half the time. It's also predictable because that is all we do. We have no other offensive plan. I honestly believe, although there is a lack of talent, we would produce more offensively with a better game plan.
That's not necessarily a problem by itself. There's plenty of successful teams in plenty of sports who have one system. For example a baseball team that plays a lot of small ball, or a basketball team that relies mainly on 3 point shots.
In fact successful teams often have one defined style and execute the heck out of it. To the point where everyone knows it's coming, but still can't stop it. If you can do that, it's pretty demoralizing to the other team.
Our problem is more that it's all we do and we're not that good at it.
Well I agree with that. But, I just dislike the strategy in general. You already have possession of the puck. So then you dump it in only to regain possession some of the time. Same with the damn line changes, we are just giving the other team possession. Even if we were good at faceoffs, the line changes would completely negate the extra possession from the faceoffs. Seriously, how is this not pinpointed as a HUGE flaw in our game plan by the coaching staff. Every line that jumps on during live play starts the shift playing defense, and often plays their entire shift on defense. What a brilliant plan from Carlyle considering were such a good defensive team...
If Carlyle cant come up with a plan to get the puck in the O zone other than dumping it in then he needs to go. Same goes for line changes. That or GET SOME BIGGER PLAYERS THAT CAN PLAY THAT STYLE MURRAY!!!. Geez.
There were a handful of times yesterday when we actually regrouped and got line changes while maintaining possession. I was amazed. Of course we then ran a stupid breakout from behind the net, dumped it in, and lost the puck, but I really liked that we regrouped and changed personel while maintaining possession.
So they had good rookie years in spite of him and are now playing badly because of him? That doesn't make any sense. Name one depth player that has struggled under Carlyle who has consistently excelled on other rosters. Most of the retreads that Carlyle can't get anything out of normally find themselves in the minors or on other teams fourth lines within a year of them leaving anaheim.
Cogliano
Weight
Excelled is a strong word but the Rangers get a lot more out of Christiansen than Carlyle did
He's a good coach but he's also shown he's completely incapable of using a player whose skillset runs toward a possession game rather than the dump and chase game.
Cogliano
Weight
Excelled is a strong word but the Rangers get a lot more out of Christiansen than Carlyle did
He's a good coach but he's also shown he's completely incapable of using a player whose skillset runs toward a possession game rather than the dump and chase game.
I was referring more to bottom 6 players he's been given which Weight isn't but if we include everybody, Doug Weight is about the only guy who comes to mind who was significantly better elsewhere than here. Ryan Whitney as well but the verdict is still out on whether he can maintain his ridiculous numbers so far in Edmonton.
Cogliano it's still too early to say, although he regressed every year in Edmonton before coming here too. Christensen put up virtually all of his numbers on a line with Gaborik, he's generally played the same 4th line/healthy scratch/occasional top 6 role there that he did in Anaheim.
Plenty more players have excelled under him than have gone on and left to do better things. Off the top of my head McDonald, Pahlsson, Moen, Beauchemin are a few of the players who haven't replicated their success elsewhere.
Plenty more players have excelled under him than have gone on and left to do better things. Off the top of my head McDonald, Pahlsson, Moen, Beauchemin are a few of the players who haven't replicated their success elsewhere.
maybe we should stop trying to make a third scoring line and go back to more of a shutdown type. Carlyle seems incapable of putting together a third scoring line.
that said Jeff Carter just asked for a trade. Would anyone here move Holland++ for him?
I would throw in there that Beauch was kind of unproven without Niedermayer himself, as well, and with Wis having taken over that spot would have been used in a very different matter. That said, you did show that I have some memory-issues regarding that time, so I'll refrain from going into details... 
Seems like a fair point of yours, to say the least.
