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The Fire Murray/Carlyle Thread (Edit: Carlyle Fired)

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Old
11-21-2011, 03:25 PM
  #151
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Murray is the problem here, not Carlyle. Murray is going to pull abother knee jerk reaction trade that is going to set the team back. I'm still waiting for him to fix the 3rd line and shore up the D. When Burke was first hired he put his blueprint on the team. I have no idea what Murray's blueprint is for this team. I'll I know this team is starting to resemble the prelockout days.
Set the team back? We are in the top 10 in our prospect pool now. Burke's blueprint is simple, mortgage the future for immediate improvement. He left Vancouver in shambles for 5 years due to this and Murray inherited the same problem. It is not Murray's fault that a team capable of making the playoff's without their goalie is now all of a sudden unable to compete....

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11-21-2011, 03:40 PM
  #152
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Murray is the problem here, not Carlyle. Murray is going to pull abother knee jerk reaction trade that is going to set the team back. I'm still waiting for him to fix the 3rd line and shore up the D. When Burke was first hired he put his blueprint on the team. I have no idea what Murray's blueprint is for this team. I'll I know this team is starting to resemble the prelockout days.
Oh god im sick of this argument...Carlyle has been given THREE years to develop a new third line. The man simply cannot develop bottom 6 players due to dinosaur thinking.

O
Our prospects seem togetworse once they stay up, except for the elite talents Carlyle has lost the team. HE MUST GO. RPG is playing to get him fired end of story

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11-21-2011, 04:04 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by nbducksfan19 View Post
Set the team back? We are in the top 10 in our prospect pool now. Burke's blueprint is simple, mortgage the future for immediate improvement. He left Vancouver in shambles for 5 years due to this and Murray inherited the same problem. It is not Murray's fault that a team capable of making the playoff's without their goalie is now all of a sudden unable to compete....
Top 10 in prospects means jack squat on the ice. By the time those guys are ready Getzlaf, Perry and Fowler will all be in the last year of their deals and will be due huge raises. And Burke won us a cup. Something I guarantee Murray never does here.

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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Oh god im sick of this argument...Carlyle has been given THREE years to develop a new third line. The man simply cannot develop bottom 6 players due to dinosaur thinking.

O
Our prospects seem togetworse once they stay up, except for the elite talents Carlyle has lost the team. HE MUST GO. RPG is playing to get him fired end of story
Name one third liner Carlyle has failed to develop that went on and was a third liner elsewhere.

Chipchura? Nokelainen? Carter? Bodie? Artyukhin? Oh wait they've all gone on elsewhere to do pretty much exactly what they did here, absolutely nothing. It's not easy for Carlyle when the GM gives him absolute crap to work with.

And implying RPG is playing this badly to get him fired is retarded. These guys are professional athletes with a lot of pride, they're not going to mail it in just to get their coach fired.

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11-21-2011, 04:15 PM
  #154
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Top 10 in prospects means jack squat on the ice. By the time those guys are ready Getzlaf, Perry and Fowler will all be in the last year of their deals and will be due huge raises. And Burke won us a cup. Something I guarantee Murray never does here.



Name one third liner Carlyle has failed to develop that went on and was a third liner elsewhere.

Chipchura? Nokelainen? Carter? Bodie? Artyukhin? Oh wait they've all gone on elsewhere to do pretty much exactly what they did here, absolutely nothing. It's not easy for Carlyle when the GM gives him absolute crap to work with.

And implying RPG is playing this badly to get him fired is retarded. These guys are professional athletes with a lot of pride, they're not going to mail it in just to get their coach fired.
You need to face the facts and understand that this coach has lost this team. I feel bad for the guy but it's time for a change. Carlyle's time in Anaheim is done!

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11-21-2011, 04:27 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Oh god im sick of this argument...Carlyle has been given THREE years to develop a new third line. The man simply cannot develop bottom 6 players due to dinosaur thinking.

O
Our prospects seem togetworse once they stay up, except for the elite talents Carlyle has lost the team. HE MUST GO. RPG is playing to get him fired end of story
With what players? Carlyle isn't a magician. He can't pull a third line out of thin air. It's up to the GM to give him the players to build a third line. So where are they?

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11-21-2011, 04:28 PM
  #156
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Top 10 in prospects means jack squat on the ice. By the time those guys are ready Getzlaf, Perry and Fowler will all be in the last year of their deals and will be due huge raises. And Burke won us a cup. Something I guarantee Murray never does here.



Name one third liner Carlyle has failed to develop that went on and was a third liner elsewhere.

Chipchura? Nokelainen? Carter? Bodie? Artyukhin? Oh wait they've all gone on elsewhere to do pretty much exactly what they did here, absolutely nothing. It's not easy for Carlyle when the GM gives him absolute crap to work with.

And implying RPG is playing this badly to get him fired is retarded. These guys are professional athletes with a lot of pride, they're not going to mail it in just to get their coach fired.
Curtis Glencross, drew miller, Zenon Konopka, brendan morrison, and Erik Christensen have all had success after leaving Randy Carlyle - can you name a player who had played poorly before Randy "coached them up"? I agree with you that the RPG line clearly isn't playing bad to get Carlyle fired, but they certainly are playing uninspired hockey, and the coach must be held accountable for that. Also, just because prospects mean jack squat on the ice, doesn't mean they aren't incredibly valuable for the teams future and it is the GM's job to ensure that the future is accounted for. There is a reason teams don't trade lottery picks for decent NHL players, even thought they the player could help them immediately on the ice.

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11-21-2011, 04:35 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by nbducksfan19 View Post
Set the team back? We are in the top 10 in our prospect pool now. Burke's blueprint is simple, mortgage the future for immediate improvement. He left Vancouver in shambles for 5 years due to this and Murray inherited the same problem. It is not Murray's fault that a team capable of making the playoff's without their goalie is now all of a sudden unable to compete....
Being a top 10 prospect pool according to hockey's future doesn't mean anything right now. Columbus had one of the top prospect team's according to HF and look at them now. You know what matters? Winning, and this team isn't doing it.

And yes, this team did make the playoffs last season without Hiller. But they did it on the backs of overachieving players. It took career years out of Lydman, Visnovsky, and Perry. Not to mention great play from Emery, Selanne, and Fowler. And even then they just barely made the playoffs. What happens if Lydman, Visnovsky, and Perry fall back to Earth? Oops, they miss the playoffs.

Now, yes, they were still better than they have shown so far, even without those career years, but don't pretend this team was a lock to make the playoffs and now things have gone to ****. That's just not true.

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11-21-2011, 04:41 PM
  #158
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I was wondering, have you guys heard anything from Bob Murray??? I tried searching last night to find any interviews or comments about what Murray is saying or has said during this struggle but didn't find anything.

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11-21-2011, 04:45 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by nbducksfan19 View Post
Curtis Glencross, drew miller, Zenon Konopka, brendan morrison, and Erik Christensen have all had success after leaving Randy Carlyle - can you name a player who had played poorly before Randy "coached them up"?
- Glencross played two games for Carlyle, the team was far too deep for him to make (that was the year we won the cup) and he was traded (by Burke, not Carlyle) because at the time, we didn't need him.

- The year Morrison was here he was coming off ACL surgery, it was a risky move by Burke to sign him hoping the injury didn't affect him when it clearly did.

- Konopka played all of 23 games here and put up 7 points (a 25 point pace). Since then he's bounced around the league as a 4th liner, never putting up more than 9 points in a whole season.

- Christensen sucks, Rangers fans don't like him and the only reason he pu.t up as many points as he has was because he was playing with Gaborik.

- Miller was a 4th talent here and is a 4th line talent in Detroit, his offensive output is almost identical here as it is in Detroit.

As for guys who Carlyle "coached up" - Moen was a scrub before he was in Anaheim. He couldn't even crack Chicagos roster back when they were awful. Fedoruk had his only decent offensive output under Carlyle. Ebbett put up 32 points in 48 games under Carlyle, I doubt he ever hits 30 points again. Pahlsson and McDonald both had their best years here but have both still been successful elsewhere

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11-21-2011, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nbducksfan19 View Post
Set the team back? We are in the top 10 in our prospect pool now. Burke's blueprint is simple, mortgage the future for immediate improvement. He left Vancouver in shambles for 5 years due to this and Murray inherited the same problem. It is not Murray's fault that a team capable of making the playoff's without their goalie is now all of a sudden unable to compete....
While I don't disagree completely, tell me where Vancouver is now (prospects pool) without Burke/Nonis? It's not like their all of the sudden so much better in prospects and etc as their whole team is what Burke/Nonis drafted and their best prospect is Jensen who was drafted this last June.

I do agree that Murray did an awesome job taking over and re-stocking your prospects pool. I've been a supporter of Murray but at the same time, it's time for him to do something as something is not working. That doesn't mean you rush and make panic moves no, but this is no longer a 2 week slump or something.

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11-21-2011, 04:50 PM
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I was wondering, have you guys heard anything from Bob Murray??? I tried searching last night to find any interviews or comments about what Murray is saying or has said during this struggle but didn't find anything.
Murray very rarely addresses the fanbase. His ability to communicate with the fans leaves a lot to be desired.

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11-21-2011, 04:50 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by nbducksfan19 View Post
Curtis Glencross, drew miller, Zenon Konopka, brendan morrison, and Erik Christensen have all had success after leaving Randy Carlyle - can you name a player who had played poorly before Randy "coached them up"? I agree with you that the RPG line clearly isn't playing bad to get Carlyle fired, but they certainly are playing uninspired hockey, and the coach must be held accountable for that. Also, just because prospects mean jack squat on the ice, doesn't mean they aren't incredibly valuable for the teams future and it is the GM's job to ensure that the future is accounted for. There is a reason teams don't trade lottery picks for decent NHL players, even thought they the player could help them immediately on the ice.
That list is brutal.

Erik Christensen is a shootout specialist. He's terrible.

Glencross was on the team when the Ducks had the Pahlsson shutdown line. He was never a Duck when we were desperate for a third line. You're going to blame Carlyle for having the best shutdown line in the league? There are worst things.

Ditto for Konopka. Terrible example.

Brendan Morrison came to Anaheim after a major injury. After spending so much off the ice, most players take time to get back into their groove. Anaheim needed a 2nd line center, and they needed one immediately. They couldn't afford to wait for Morrison to figure things out.

Miller is a 4th line player. He was one here, and he's one in Detroit. Not exactly the kind of player you look to for a good third line. He's the type of player who makes a substandard 3rd line.

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11-21-2011, 04:53 PM
  #163
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Top 10 in prospects means jack squat on the ice. By the time those guys are ready Getzlaf, Perry and Fowler will all be in the last year of their deals and will be due huge raises. And Burke won us a cup. Something I guarantee Murray never does here.



Name one third liner Carlyle has failed to develop that went on and was a third liner elsewhere.

Chipchura? Nokelainen? Carter? Bodie? Artyukhin? Oh wait they've all gone on elsewhere to do pretty much exactly what they did here, absolutely nothing. It's not easy for Carlyle when the GM gives him absolute crap to work with.

And implying RPG is playing this badly to get him fired is retarded. These guys are professional athletes with a lot of pride, they're not going to mail it in just to get their coach fired.
Burke won a cup due to extremely good luck.

-he was lucky to have Rob Niedermayer here. Otherwise Scott never comes here.

-He walked into a situation where the farm was loaded with elite talent.

-Was fortunate enough Selanne became a 40 goal scorer again. NOBODY expected Selanne to be so good.

Pronger trade? Brilliant but a byproduct of him walking into a good situation with some breaks.

Murray has rebult the farm Burke depleted. Of Burkes drafts he has Bobby Ryan to show for it. The rest sucked. and once again he lucked into the No.2 pick

Murray has given this team plenty of talent.

As for RPG i know someone that knows two of them pretty well. I dont expect anyone to believe me and this person told me similar last year but they turned it around. I dont sense a turnaround this time the message is old time for a new voice

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11-21-2011, 04:56 PM
  #164
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Burke won a cup due to extremely good luck.

-he was lucky to have Rob Niedermayer here. Otherwise Scott never comes here.

-He walked into a situation where the farm was loaded with elite talent.

-Was fortunate enough Selanne became a 40 goal scorer again. NOBODY expected Selanne to be so good.

Pronger trade? Brilliant but a byproduct of him walking into a good situation with some breaks.

Murray has rebult the farm Burke depleted. Of Burkes drafts he has Bobby Ryan to show for it. The rest sucked. and once again he lucked into the No.2 pick

Murray has given this team plenty of talent.

As for RPG i know someone that knows two of them pretty well. I dont expect anyone to believe me and this person told me similar last year but they turned it around. I dont sense a turnaround this time the message is old time for a new voice
Where is this talent you speak of?

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11-21-2011, 04:59 PM
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As for RPG i know someone that knows two of them pretty well. I dont expect anyone to believe me and this person told me similar last year but they turned it around. I dont sense a turnaround this time the message is old time for a new voice
You know, it's funny. Getzlaf publically said Carlyle is not the problem. What does your sister's boyfriend's cousin's friend think of that?

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11-21-2011, 05:06 PM
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Where is this talent you speak of?
You're just being difficult. Or do you honestly not expect any of McMillan, Macenauer, Fowler, Sbisa, Palmieri, Holland, Bonino, Vatenen, or Schultz to pan out?

In the same vein, however, Miller has been a 11-12 minute 10 goal 18/19 point player in Detroit. That's better 3rd line production than the Ducks have had in years.

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11-21-2011, 05:08 PM
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Just to change the subject, does anyone think that Murray's and Carlyle's hands are tied due to the internal cap?

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11-21-2011, 05:13 PM
  #168
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You're just being difficult. Or do you honestly not expect any of McMillan, Macenauer, Fowler, Sbisa, Palmieri, Holland, Bonino, Vatenen, or Schultz to pan out?

In the same vein, however, Miller has been a 11-12 minute 10 goal 18/19 point player in Detroit. That's better 3rd line production than the Ducks have had in years.
Ah, no. Sorry, I should have elaborated.

Where is the talent on the ice now.

That's the issue at hand, isn't it? The team is losing. It's all fine and good that a few years from now things will improve. I'm happy with the way things look moving ahead. What I'm not happy with is the team's on-ice talent right now. I'm someone who thinks Murray does a better job at bringing in prospects than he does rostered players.

Agree to disagree on Miller. McMillan had 21 points last season. Marchant. Sexton. Beleskey. It also doesn't hurt that Miller has better players to play with.

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11-21-2011, 05:16 PM
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With what players? Carlyle isn't a magician. He can't pull a third line out of thin air. It's up to the GM to give him the players to build a third line. So where are they?
im not asking him to be a magician. Why is it alot of players come here and stink? then go elsewhere and are good?(Lupul, Whitney. Wiz and Montador are pretty obvious ones)

Why have players like McMillan and Beleskey gotten worse after playing under him after their rookie years?

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11-21-2011, 05:18 PM
  #170
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Where is this talent you speak of?
Fowler, Etem, Palmieri, DSP, Gibson, Holland, Vatenen ect. That is much more exciting than the young talent Burke was bringing through.

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11-21-2011, 05:20 PM
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Ah, no. Sorry, I should have elaborated.

Where is the talent on the ice now.

That's the issue at hand, isn't it? The team is losing. It's all fine and good that a few years from now things will improve. I'm happy with the way things look moving ahead. What I'm not happy with is the team's on-ice talent right now. I'm someone who thinks Murray does a better job at bringing in prospects than he does rostered players.

Agree to disagree on Miller. McMillan had 21 points last season. Marchant. Sexton. Beleskey. It also doesn't hurt that Miller has better players to play with.
Ever heard of a rebuild? that's what happens when you have a largely aging roster with no prospects - which is exactly what we were left with post-burke.

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11-21-2011, 05:28 PM
  #172
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Ever heard of a rebuild? that's what happens when you have a largely aging roster with no prospects - which is exactly what we were left with post-burke.
A rebuild has to do with the on-ice team. The Ducks have never been through a rebuild under Murray. They've re-tooled. A rebuild is what Edmonton and the Kings went through.

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11-21-2011, 05:32 PM
  #173
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im not asking him to be a magician. Why is it alot of players come here and stink? then go elsewhere and are good?(Lupul, Whitney. Wiz and Montador are pretty obvious ones)

Why have players like McMillan and Beleskey gotten worse after playing under him after their rookie years?
Lupul - Blood infection

Whitney - Yeah, no idea, but I was glad to be rid of him.

Wisniewski - PP specialist. In Anaheim he was actually playing a two-way top 4 role.

Montador - Come again? 3rd pairing defenseman in Anaheim. 3rd pairing defenseman in Chicago.

You're not going to win an argument regarding player development under Carlyle.

McMillan and Beleskey vs. Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Fowler, Sbisa I think Carlyle comes out on top there.

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11-21-2011, 05:37 PM
  #174
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You know, it's funny. Getzlaf publically said Carlyle is not the problem. What does your sister's boyfriend's cousin's friend think of that?
lol anything said publicly should be taken with a grain of salt, these players are media trained by the teams, and their agents. Getzlaf says the same garbage all the time but he never actually changes his ways.

As for my info, I don't care if you believe me I know a couple people who have access to athletes/sports I am not going to post a whole bunch of things around here because teams and players read these boards and I don't want to expose anyone and get them in trouble, you are free to think I am making things up, but I'll just say, in my opinion, Carlyle is losing, or has lost the team.

Carlyle never benches any of his veterans for poor play, he always picks the randoms to send messages to...guess what, the message isn't delivered to your stars you only make your secondary players play worse, and become highly resentful.

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11-21-2011, 05:42 PM
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lol anything said publicly should be taken with a grain of salt, these players are media trained by the teams, and their agents. Getzlaf says the same garbage all the time but he never actually changes his ways.

As for my info, I don't care if you believe me I know a couple people who have access to athletes/sports I am not going to post a whole bunch of things around here because teams and players read these boards and I don't want to expose anyone and get them in trouble, you are free to think I am making things up, but I'll just say, in my opinion, Carlyle is losing, or has lost the team.

Carlyle never benches any of his veterans for poor play, he always picks the randoms to send messages to...guess what, the message isn't delivered to your stars you only make your secondary players play worse, and become highly resentful.
So why did Getzlaf say anything at all?

You don't have insider status on these boards, so no, I don't believe you. I think you're grasping at any straw you can find to give your argument more weight.

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