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Ideally, is Mike Modano a HHOFer?

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Old
11-15-2011, 03:11 PM
  #1
RECsGuy*
 
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Ideally, is Mike Modano a HHOFer?

Will he get in? Well, he has overtaken Joe Mullen for all of the notable Red, White and Blue records , so, yes, he's in.

Should he, though? You tell me.

Regular Season
1,499 GP - 1,374 PTS

Playoffs
176 - 146 PTS

(1) 2nd Team All-Star selection ('99-'00)
(1) Stanley Cup
(1) World Cup Of Hockey - Gold
(1) 50-goal season ('93-'94)
(0) 100-point seasons

Very good player. Great? Hmmmm......

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Old
11-15-2011, 03:14 PM
  #2
TheDevilMadeMe
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Yes.

Just as good offensively as Sundin, face of the franchise just like Sundin, and was much better defensively, and much better in the playoffs. Arguably the most important player on one of the best teams of the dead puck era.

Since we've been talking about Alfredsson recently, Modano has everything Alfy did in the regular season and more.

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11-15-2011, 03:16 PM
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JaysCyYoung
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Defensively-speaking I find him to be incredibly overrated on here. He was good but he was certainly no Guy Carbonneau or Jere Lehtinen if we're discussing former Stars teammates, and I've always felt Sundin was the superior player between the two (since they seem to get compared a fair bit), but he is without question a Hall of Famer. He has every single bit of regular-season and post-season success that you look for and he was the face of both the North Stars/Stars franchise and USA Hockey for almost two decades. That's certainly impactful enough combined with his statistical totals and a Stanley Cup championship to be enshrined.

He's certainly a more compelling candidate to me than guys such as Bernie Federko, Joe Mullen, and Lanny McDonald as far as comparable players statistically-speaking who are in the Hall of Fame.

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11-15-2011, 03:47 PM
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I think playing on the more defensive Stars teams make his peak numbers seem a little worse than they are. When watching Dallas face Colorado or Detroit I would often come away thinking that Modano was the best centre involved. He was the best player (I don't really see the argument for anyone else) on a perpetual contender that won a Cup. While you'd probably rank Dallas behind Detroit, Colorado and New Jersey, they certainly weren't that far behind, and as good as Lehtinen, Belfour and Hatcher were good, Modano didn't quite have the backup cast that Sakic, Yzerman or Brodeur did.

And while his defense may be exaggerated the way a lot of the top stars of the 90's/2000's were, there's no doubt in my mind that he was in the upper echelon for defense among the top forward. I think he was better defensively than Sakic or Francis, for instance.

He'd be in my ideal Hall of Fame for sure.

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11-15-2011, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
He was the best player (I don't really see the argument for anyone else) on a perpetual contender that won a Cup.
This is a major point in Modano's favour. Add in his longevity, counting numbers, and memorable playoff performances, and he absolutely belongs.

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11-15-2011, 04:14 PM
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Is he in my ideal HoF? No. Will he make it into the version we've got? Absolutely, and deservedly.

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11-15-2011, 04:20 PM
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He'd be a lock even if he wasn't the highest scoring american.

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11-15-2011, 04:39 PM
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Is he in my ideal HoF? No. Will he make it into the version we've got? Absolutely, and deservedly.
Out of curiosity, what would be the standard for your ideal HoF? For example, would players such as Gil Perreault and Johnny Bucyk still be there?

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11-15-2011, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Der Kaiser View Post
Out of curiosity, what would be the standard for your ideal HoF? For example, would players such as Gil Perreault and Johnny Bucyk still be there?
The requirements would start with being one of the best players in the league for at least a 3-4 years. From there, depends on their individual achievements (not team), and how high/long their peak was. I'd probably favour a higher, shorter peak over a lower, longer peak.

Someone like Perreault would be a fringe candidate. Don't really know all that much about Johnny Bucyk.

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11-15-2011, 05:05 PM
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He's a lock for sure. One of the best players of the 90's.

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11-15-2011, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
The requirements would start with being one of the best players in the league for at least a 3-4 years.
I think Modano fit this definition, from 1995-2003 he probably had a 3-4 years stretch were a lot of people would have put Modano in their top 10 forward. 12 season in a row with ppg or above with a lot of years in the dead puck, 80 games played and more with good defensive play, very very good career, and made Dallas a top team for a long period.

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Old
11-15-2011, 10:18 PM
  #12
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Defensively-speaking I find him to be incredibly overrated on here. He was good but he was certainly no Guy Carbonneau or Jere Lehtinen if we're discussing former Stars teammates, and I've always felt Sundin was the superior player between the two (since they seem to get compared a fair bit), but he is without question a Hall of Famer. He has every single bit of regular-season and post-season success that you look for and he was the face of both the North Stars/Stars franchise and USA Hockey for almost two decades. That's certainly impactful enough combined with his statistical totals and a Stanley Cup championship to be enshrined.

He's certainly a more compelling candidate to me than guys such as Bernie Federko, Joe Mullen, and Lanny McDonald as far as comparable players statistically-speaking who are in the Hall of Fame.
I agree with you that Modano's defense is getting played up too much on the boards here. The first 5-7ish years of his career he was a one dimensional, flashy, soft player.

When his entire team was focused on defense and he played with a 3 time Selke winner a lot of the time - he is suddenly seen as a defensive stalwart for some reason. I agree he improved defensively and became more willing to get his nose dirty but he wasn't suddenly a Trottier/Clarke/Gilmour or anything like that.

Anyways, I'd pick Modano slightly over Sundin overall. He was better defensively than Sundin, they were close offensively and neither one of them did anything with their size. Pretty close comparing them really.

They will both get in, I think.

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11-15-2011, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RECsGuy View Post
Will he get in? Well, he has overtaken Joe Mullen for all of the notable Red, White and Blue records , so, yes, he's in.

Should he, though? You tell me.

Regular Season
1,499 GP - 1,374 PTS

Playoffs
176 - 146 PTS

(1) 2nd Team All-Star selection ('99-'00)
(1) Stanley Cup
(1) World Cup Of Hockey - Gold
(1) 50-goal season ('93-'94)
(0) 100-point seasons

Very good player. Great? Hmmmm......
Absolutely, yes he will and deserves to get in.

He doesn't have the really sexy peak season but a great player and excellent 2 way guy in the latter part of his career.

During his NHL career he was 4th in points which is a really good indication of his value, even before you factor in defensive attributes as well.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

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Old
11-16-2011, 12:16 AM
  #14
Pear Juice
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I agree with you that Modano's defense is getting played up too much on the boards here. The first 5-7ish years of his career he was a one dimensional, flashy, soft player.

When his entire team was focused on defense and he played with a 3 time Selke winner a lot of the time - he is suddenly seen as a defensive stalwart for some reason. I agree he improved defensively and became more willing to get his nose dirty but he wasn't suddenly a Trottier/Clarke/Gilmour or anything like that.

Anyways, I'd pick Modano slightly over Sundin overall. He was better defensively than Sundin, they were close offensively and neither one of them did anything with their size. Pretty close comparing them really.

They will both get in, I think.
Sundin is in my opinion one of the better players in recent times at using his size and reach to cover the puck from opponents. He didn't use it to bang opponents into the boards, but I do think that he made quite good use of his large frame.

I believe he's a good comparison to Mike Modano. Modano having more success in the NHL playoffs and Sundin with a better international resume.

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11-16-2011, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Der Kaiser View Post
Sundin is in my opinion one of the better players in recent times at using his size and reach to cover the puck from opponents. He didn't use it to bang opponents into the boards, but I do think that he made quite good use of his large frame.

I believe he's a good comparison to Mike Modano. Modano having more success in the NHL playoffs and Sundin with a better international resume.
Both guys are under rated a bit IMO, especially Sundin.

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11-16-2011, 12:40 AM
  #16
Stephen
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Not the "idealized" hall of fame again.

By all HHOF measures, Modano is in.

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11-16-2011, 01:09 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
I think he was better defensively than Sakic or Francis, for instance.
Not even close. In his best years Modano was close to Sakic's level defensively, but Sakic maintained that level longer. Francis was a high-end defensive player for a long time and is one of the best two-way players ever career-wise. Modano had more years in his career as a one-way player than he did as a two-way player.

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11-16-2011, 01:35 AM
  #18
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Easily.

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11-16-2011, 03:52 AM
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Modano will go in on the first ballot and there shouldn't be an ounce of debate about it.

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11-16-2011, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I agree with you that Modano's defense is getting played up too much on the boards here. The first 5-7ish years of his career he was a one dimensional, flashy, soft player.

When his entire team was focused on defense and he played with a 3 time Selke winner a lot of the time - he is suddenly seen as a defensive stalwart for some reason. I agree he improved defensively and became more willing to get his nose dirty but he wasn't suddenly a Trottier/Clarke/Gilmour or anything like that.

Anyways, I'd pick Modano slightly over Sundin overall. He was better defensively than Sundin, they were close offensively and neither one of them did anything with their size. Pretty close comparing them really.

They will both get in, I think.
He doesn't have to be Trottier/Clarke level to be much better defensively than Sundin.

(I didn't watch much of Gilmour in Toronto but I thought Gilmour in NJ was no better defensively than Modano under Hitchcock).

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11-16-2011, 04:19 AM
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Modano is an easy lock for the HHoF, and in my ideal Hall, he would be an example of the cut off... someone like Sundin would be an example of just not having enough.

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11-16-2011, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by RECsGuy View Post
Will he get in? Well, he has overtaken Joe Mullen for all of the notable Red, White and Blue records , so, yes, he's in.

Should he, though? You tell me.

Regular Season
1,499 GP - 1,374 PTS

Playoffs
176 - 146 PTS

(1) 2nd Team All-Star selection ('99-'00)
(1) Stanley Cup
(1) World Cup Of Hockey - Gold
(1) 50-goal season ('93-'94)
(0) 100-point seasons

Very good player. Great? Hmmmm......

I'm not convinced. One 50 goal, 90 point season during a year where at least ten players scored 100 points and then very good, consisent production during the dead puck era but never a truly elite player. They already rewarded Nieuwendyk and Belfour from that Stars team. Nieuwendyk won the Smythe and Belfour put them over the top. Brett Hull is also in the HHOF as well. Was Modano even a Selke nominee? I can see him getting in, because he's better than inductees like Federko, Gilles and Ciccarelli, but I don't think he should get in just because the standards are lower.

His playoff totals put him over Sundin, but then he also got more playoff time with his teams.


Last edited by MessierThanThou: 11-16-2011 at 04:58 AM.
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Old
11-16-2011, 06:56 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
He doesn't have to be Trottier/Clarke level to be much better defensively than Sundin.
Oh for sure.. I admitted as much too.

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(I didn't watch much of Gilmour in Toronto but I thought Gilmour in NJ was no better defensively than Modano under Hitchcock).
That is too bad.. You missed a couple of very special years at his very best.

There is no player in the world I would rather have had on my team during the early 90s. Never seen anything like it.

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Old
11-16-2011, 11:16 AM
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JaysCyYoung
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He doesn't have to be Trottier/Clarke level to be much better defensively than Sundin.
Strongly disagree.

There seems to be this incorrect perception on here that Sundin was some kind of defensive slouch. The fact of the matter is that he was perfectly respectable in Toronto in terms of defensive play and was one of the most elite centres in the league at winning face-offs year in and year out.

Not Selke-quality but very good nonetheless. The gap between him and Modano isn't nearly as large on the defensive end as some people perceive it to have been.

Quote:
(I didn't watch much of Gilmour in Toronto but I thought Gilmour in NJ was no better defensively than Modano under Hitchcock).
Doug Gilmour's defensive play for the Leafs in the 1993 and 1994 seasons under the watchful eye of Pat Burns was a major reason why the Leafs were one of the league's best defensive clubs in both seasons. His tenacious two-way play and back-checking ability broke up countless rushes and made the Leafs extremely difficult to score against. Seeing this small, barely 5'10, 160 pound soaking wet centre attacking opposing players and stripping them of the puck was remarkable to watch during those two years.

Gilmour in those seasons was just as good as Fedorov in his prime at defending. This little Kingstonian blocking shots on the penalty kill, while also contributing 110+ points was one of the most amazing things I've ever witnessed in terms of a player making all-out contributions for his squad.

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Old
11-16-2011, 11:21 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Der Kaiser View Post
Sundin is in my opinion one of the better players in recent times at using his size and reach to cover the puck from opponents. He didn't use it to bang opponents into the boards, but I do think that he made quite good use of his large frame.

I believe he's a good comparison to Mike Modano. Modano having more success in the NHL playoffs and Sundin with a better international resume.
How much does an international resume get you in terms of recognition in the HHOF really. I mean Makarov is one of the best hockey players that has ever lived and a bulk of his achievements have come from international play but yet he is not inducted.

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