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Official Isles' Fans Venting Thread: "Somebody hit somebody!"

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Old
11-19-2011, 11:26 PM
  #76
Icedemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumanperro View Post


You are a factory of sadness!

That is all.
that man is my f***ing hero. I wanna have a beer with him. Someone should do an islanders version of this. Might be tough since emperor wang would have said person arrested for criticizing the team.

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Old
11-20-2011, 01:35 AM
  #77
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We already have had 4 goalies play this year....its gonna be a long year

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11-20-2011, 03:20 AM
  #78
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Playing Rick Dipietro is killing the Islanders. He just can't be a goalie anymore. This might be one of the worst contract situations in the history of pro sports. It's so bad I have to change the channel during highlights. I compare DP to EJ Hradek. Both don't know how to do their jobs. Gretzky told EJ to hang his skates. But we all know EJ will never listen. Neither will DP. What's Rick doing playing the puck still? He needs to understand his once great puck handling skills are very low right now because he's played very few games over the past 4 years. Stay in your net and work on your speed and positioning, which is also VERY weak at the moment. Coming 50 feet out your blue paint to cut an angle doesn't help at all, it makes you extremely vulnerable in the new NHL era. This is technical stuff you learn when your a kid. It's like he forgot how to play the game. Ugh. Oh Ricky. Your a really great guy but common already...


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Old
11-20-2011, 03:29 AM
  #79
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When people blame DP for all the Islanders ills they are missing the effing point! Was it his fault they were thrashed last night?

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Old
11-20-2011, 05:44 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
When people blame DP for all the Islanders ills they are missing the effing point! Was it his fault they were thrashed last night?
He's currently stopping the team from moving forward. He's like a bad taste in your mouth that won't go away. But he deflated the team early by giving up soft goals. However he wasn't the reason they got blown out.

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Old
11-20-2011, 06:21 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
He's currently stopping the team from moving forward. He's like a bad taste in your mouth that won't go away. But he deflated the team early by giving up soft goals. However he wasn't the reason they got blown out.
The second goal was his fault and no one elses, I'll give you that, but lasty night the team did not come out to play. They stood around and watched and that is not DPs fault. Yes, his contract is a bugger and hurts the team but the fault for being where we are lies with Wang ans Snow. They are ones who put this team together, watches it fail miserably and does **** all about it!

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Old
11-20-2011, 06:47 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
But he deflated the team early by giving up soft goals. However he wasn't the reason they got blown out.
The team had two shots in the first period. THAT deflated the team.

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:32 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
When people blame DP for all the Islanders ills they are missing the effing point! Was it his fault they were thrashed last night?
DiPietro sucked last night. I think all three goals were his fault. He has no lateral movement and once he goes down, it takes a looong time for him to get up. Add to that his ridiculous puck handling decisions and it all spells SUCKS.

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:36 AM
  #84
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjD...eature=related


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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
3 games under 500 with the least amount of games played in the east, if they go on a 4 game winning streak they are 500 if they go on a 6 game winning streak they are back in the play off picture
Mora sums it up for me.

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:48 AM
  #85
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Tonight's game was absolutely it for me.


I can handle watching this team lose, but it's the way that they lose.

Very simply, they do nothing right. When they do win, it's typically a case of the sun shining on a dog's ass.


Why do I feel this way?

They can't pass.

They can't hit the net.

They make bonehead plays and abominable give-aways.

They're good for one soft goal a night.

They're good for one too-many-men on the ice penalties a night.

Outside of Matt Martin, they don't hit.

They don't stand up for one another.

They allow their goaltender to get freight-trained nightly.

They don't stand up for themselves.

They're soft.

They're ******* on the ice.

They have no size.

They have minimal skill.

The organization won't invest in itself.

They seem perfectly content to lose.

They don't respond to their coach.

They don't handle their young players properly.

They have no veteran presence.

They recruit has-beens who have no business being in the NHL anymore.

They are good for one on ice collision amongst teammates that makes their fans drop their heads in shame each game.

They bench Kyle Okposo for 3 games when 1 game would have done the trick yet ice a team consisting of Blake Comeau who hasn't had one good shift the entire year and has thrown one (count them, 1) solid body check this season (last night when the game was meaningless).

Their fan-base quibbles about who should be in the line-up... Mike Mottau, Milan Jurcina, or Mark Eaton, when clearly, none of them are anything more than a 7th dman and borderline NHLer.

The arena sucks.

The PC Richards whistle is annoying as sin.

They just **** the bed again with the puke 3rd jersey's that I wouldn't be caught dead wearing.

They're complacent.

The in game festivities are minor league.

The location of the arena is one of the worst in hockey, second only to The Rock in downtown Newark.

Their owner is a joke and a moron.

Their GM can't pull the trigger or get in on trades because he's been shunned and is outside of the old-boys-network needed to get good return for donkey-dung such as Scott Gomez.

They've got no reputable staff.... Who is Jack Capuano? Who is Scott Allen? When was Dean Chynoweth ever been relvant?

They're a team that epitomizes the saying 'You get what you pay for'

Oh... and did I mention, THEY SUCK PLAIN SUCK?

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:49 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
3 games under 500 with the least amount of games played in the east, if they go on a 4 game winning streak they are 500 if they go on a 6 game winning streak they are back in the play off picture
...and hey even if they lose the next 6 games who cares, all we have to do is go on a 12 game winning streak and we are right back in it, and if they lose the next six, no biggie, we just have to go on an 18 game winning streak

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:58 AM
  #87
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What would I do as part of an 'old college try'?


I'd make as many call-ups as I could (NHL rules prevail which I'm not in the know on). I'd designate as many players as I could with AHL options for a game.

I'd ice a team consisting of Montoya (when healthy) in net, Michael Haley, Matt Martin, John Tavares, Kyle Okposo (post-hiatus), Mark Streit, Travis Hamonic, Grabner, Nielsen, Nino, Andy McDonald, Aaron Ness, Matt Donovan, Trevor Gillies, Jurcina, a few other AHL goons.

I'd watch this team that we iced at least compete because the guys that I noted above are willing to do what they need to in order to at least come close to winning.

I'd find a way to sit Comeau, Bailey, Eaton, Mottau, Moulson, Rolston, Reasoner, DP.

These guys clearly are only interested in earning a paycheck and need to be shown that they are all replaceable and one step away from an AHL career because they did jack **** to improve themselves in the off-season.

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Old
11-20-2011, 08:01 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by rollin109 View Post
...and hey even if they lose the next 6 games who cares, all we have to do is go on a 12 game winning streak and we are right back in it, and if they lose the next six, no biggie, we just have to go on an 18 game winning streak
Bingo.

Clearly people don't understand the new NHL where .500 isn't about mediocrity.

Sub-.500 teams are the bottom feeders of the NHL.

Last year, 75% of the teams were at or above .500.

Above .500 teams missed the playoffs -- by a good margin.


Being under .500 is almost impossible in the NHL now and do to it on a consistent basis proves you're the worst of the worst.

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Old
11-20-2011, 08:07 AM
  #89
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I believe Columbus is going to be significantly better from here on out.

They won't sniff the playoffs but they aren't going to finish 30th because they do have a decent amount of good/very good players. Carter will improve and Wisniewski is settling in it seems.

However, they have no confidence in Steve Mason which is similar to the Isles and DiPietro. At least Montoya gives the team a chance to win.

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Old
11-20-2011, 08:23 AM
  #90
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Team Musings:

Rick

Is it his fault that we lost last night? It doesn't matter at this point. Whatever the players say to the media all you have to do is watch the tape. The team plays like it has little confidence in him. He was drafted specifically because of his combination of puck stopping and the ability to handle the puck, particularly the ability to pass and act as a third d-man. Once the trapezoid was installed that advantage mostly went away. This is a young team and you can see the defense really does not know where he is going with the puck, hence the ugly turnovers like last night's Horton goal.

At his age, with all of the injuries, he will never again regain the flexibility and quickness that was his strength when younger. I don't understand why we didn't use his contract in the AHL instead of trading for Rolston. We could have overpaid for someone else for a year to get to the cap floor.

Snow as GM

A mixed bag. Some great drafting and some poor drafting. Spurned by players like Erhoff and Martin when we tried to upgrade the defense. Moulson and Grabner were home runs but clearly made a strategic blunder with the toughness of this team this year. The modern NHL has opened up the ability of smaller, skilled players to excel but the rules did not overwrite the historical truism of King Clancy: "If you can't beat them in the alley, you can't beat them on the ice". This team is playing physically intimidated right now, just like they did before the Johnson-DP incident. Remember, it was the next Pittsburgh game that Konopka changed the mood of the team for the rest of the year by challenging their manhood, with the help of Gillies and Haley, who promised the younger kids they would have their backs. It's not like this franchise doesn't understand this. The '77-'78 and '78-'79 Isles did not win Cups because they were physically intimidated, particularly the 7-game loss to Toronto in '78.

It wasn't until the Bruins series in '80, when Gillies stood up to O'Reilly, Nystrom to Wensink, etc. that the team finally got over the hump. We've taken a big backward step because the kids are right back to where they were before the Penquins game last year. It shows in the corner battles, in front of the net, etc. Right now, Martin and Hamonic are the so-called 'police' on this team. That is not fair to ask of them at their ages and size.

Coaching

Jack Capuano is a throwback coach in a modern game. I really can't see what system he is trying to play. It was nice to see him finally calling the team out last night but is he changing his philosophy at all for the team he has playing? It worked better last year when you had the toughness but without it how do you compensate? More flow? Try to keep puck possession more, like the Red Wings?

And how about the goalie choices? The way Montoya started the year; how do you not annoite him number one? Does anyone think the players aren't asking about that either? When Nabakov and DP are given time that they HAVE NOT EARNED, it sends a horrible message to the Okposos and Comeaus that they will not be held accountable. They were finally held accountable recently but they certainly started the year as if they felt it wouldn't be that way.

Secondary Scoring

We all know how this is working out now. And we signed Okposo to a long-term contract that he is not living up to. A lot of posters keep trying to call him a power forward, but he is nowhere big enough to play that role. And in our entire system only Anders Lee can legitimately fit that profile. Nino is not big enough either, and its not like a Swiss pedigree has been a ticket towards power forward status in the past.

I've posted previously that there are some hard decisions to make in the next 12 months. It's becoming more clear as this season unfolds that the next generation of Strome, Ullstrom, Lee, Petrov etc. is pretty likely to have more potential than the current core of Moulson, Okposo, Bailey and Comeau. How do we transition AND provide some toughness to protect them? It's going to require a LOT of roster changes, not just a few line changes and a Pandolfo or Reasoner. Those last two are luxuries a contender can have on the fourth line but not on a losing team. It's time to bite the bullet and waive those two. Forget about getting an asset back, just open up the roster spots.

We needed this year to have signed one free agent forward that still had something left, like a Whitney who would be good for 45-50 points. Rolston was not that player ans seems to follow the pattern of signing veteran friends, like Guerin and Weight, who are basically done. Rolston is a friend of Weight, time to stop that carousel.

And now look at the result: a major step backward and another two to three years of rebuilding. At least the organizational depth is better now, we just need to understand that the current core is thin, and the result of a few mistakes in the first round in the past, balanced by the better selections in the second and later rounds.

Without some toughness added now this is going to be a long year.

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Old
11-20-2011, 08:32 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Trumanperro View Post


You are a factory of sadness!

That is all.
Wow, what a video. My reaction/emotion watching it -->

"It's like playing a different sport than you are"
"We don't expect you to be good, we just want you to be watchable"
"Do you have any idea how low our expectations are" (actually, the Isles fans including myself had somewhat of positive expectations until we saw the season opener shutout loss)
"We don't expect you to win the Super Bowl (replace it with Stanley Cup), we just want you to look better than a Division 3 high school (replace it with [AHL/CHL/[ ]]) team"
and more...

This really sums up our thoughts/anger and current situation the team is at. I hope Gary Bettman would step into the organization under whatever reasons to clean this whole mess. Martial law needs to be introduced.

I feel sorry for those following this team for many years (although there was once a proud dynasty 30 years ago, which is a history to me). I'm a recent NHL/Isles fan, but already got depressed/painful enough. I also feel sorry for Tavares, who even I could notice he's a great player in the making, who's gladly committed to this [hapless] team with a contract extention.

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Old
11-20-2011, 10:19 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Team Musings:

Rick

Is it his fault that we lost last night? It doesn't matter at this point. Whatever the players say to the media all you have to do is watch the tape. The team plays like it has little confidence in him. He was drafted specifically because of his combination of puck stopping and the ability to handle the puck, particularly the ability to pass and act as a third d-man. Once the trapezoid was installed that advantage mostly went away. This is a young team and you can see the defense really does not know where he is going with the puck, hence the ugly turnovers like last night's Horton goal.

At his age, with all of the injuries, he will never again regain the flexibility and quickness that was his strength when younger. I don't understand why we didn't use his contract in the AHL instead of trading for Rolston. We could have overpaid for someone else for a year to get to the cap floor.

Snow as GM

A mixed bag. Some great drafting and some poor drafting. Spurned by players like Erhoff and Martin when we tried to upgrade the defense. Moulson and Grabner were home runs but clearly made a strategic blunder with the toughness of this team this year. The modern NHL has opened up the ability of smaller, skilled players to excel but the rules did not overwrite the historical truism of King Clancy: "If you can't beat them in the alley, you can't beat them on the ice". This team is playing physically intimidated right now, just like they did before the Johnson-DP incident. Remember, it was the next Pittsburgh game that Konopka changed the mood of the team for the rest of the year by challenging their manhood, with the help of Gillies and Haley, who promised the younger kids they would have their backs. It's not like this franchise doesn't understand this. The '77-'78 and '78-'79 Isles did not win Cups because they were physically intimidated, particularly the 7-game loss to Toronto in '78.

It wasn't until the Bruins series in '80, when Gillies stood up to O'Reilly, Nystrom to Wensink, etc. that the team finally got over the hump. We've taken a big backward step because the kids are right back to where they were before the Penquins game last year. It shows in the corner battles, in front of the net, etc. Right now, Martin and Hamonic are the so-called 'police' on this team. That is not fair to ask of them at their ages and size.

Coaching

Jack Capuano is a throwback coach in a modern game. I really can't see what system he is trying to play. It was nice to see him finally calling the team out last night but is he changing his philosophy at all for the team he has playing? It worked better last year when you had the toughness but without it how do you compensate? More flow? Try to keep puck possession more, like the Red Wings?

And how about the goalie choices? The way Montoya started the year; how do you not annoite him number one? Does anyone think the players aren't asking about that either? When Nabakov and DP are given time that they HAVE NOT EARNED, it sends a horrible message to the Okposos and Comeaus that they will not be held accountable. They were finally held accountable recently but they certainly started the year as if they felt it wouldn't be that way.

Secondary Scoring

We all know how this is working out now. And we signed Okposo to a long-term contract that he is not living up to. A lot of posters keep trying to call him a power forward, but he is nowhere big enough to play that role. And in our entire system only Anders Lee can legitimately fit that profile. Nino is not big enough either, and its not like a Swiss pedigree has been a ticket towards power forward status in the past.

I've posted previously that there are some hard decisions to make in the next 12 months. It's becoming more clear as this season unfolds that the next generation of Strome, Ullstrom, Lee, Petrov etc. is pretty likely to have more potential than the current core of Moulson, Okposo, Bailey and Comeau. How do we transition AND provide some toughness to protect them? It's going to require a LOT of roster changes, not just a few line changes and a Pandolfo or Reasoner. Those last two are luxuries a contender can have on the fourth line but not on a losing team. It's time to bite the bullet and waive those two. Forget about getting an asset back, just open up the roster spots.

We needed this year to have signed one free agent forward that still had something left, like a Whitney who would be good for 45-50 points. Rolston was not that player ans seems to follow the pattern of signing veteran friends, like Guerin and Weight, who are basically done. Rolston is a friend of Weight, time to stop that carousel.

And now look at the result: a major step backward and another two to three years of rebuilding. At least the organizational depth is better now, we just need to understand that the current core is thin, and the result of a few mistakes in the first round in the past, balanced by the better selections in the second and later rounds.

Without some toughness added now this is going to be a long year.
To add to Garth, on the plus side, was to sign our best players prior to this year of futility. Imagine if the end of the season was after these games, JT would be packing for somewhere else not LI. Grabner as well as MCD, MICE and others.

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Old
11-20-2011, 10:33 AM
  #93
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I do not believe the talentless Konopka was a factor. Remember he was on the team during the 20 game losing streak too, so he was part of the problem at one time as well.
that losing streak was a result of injuries and lack of skill, they still tried. this losing streak is because no one wants to get physical. konopka was a huge part of this team last year, a 4th liner in talent, yes, but a huge, positive influence on the rest of the team.

huge mistake in letting him go.

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Old
11-20-2011, 10:38 AM
  #94
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that losing streak was a result of injuries and lack of skill, they still tried. this losing streak is because no one wants to get physical. konopka was a huge part of this team last year, a 4th liner in talent, yes, but a huge, positive influence on the rest of the team.

huge mistake in letting him go.
Yep. As much as people want to downplay his skills, which is deserved in some cases. I'll take Konopka with his toughness, enthusiasm, and faceoff skills over Reasoner at this point.

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Old
11-20-2011, 11:32 AM
  #95
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Hoping to wake up this morning and......

......either realize this whole season up to this point has been one horrible long nightmare or go on the internet, see that it is in fact reality, but that Snow (definitely) and Capuano (if deemed necessary) were both fired after last night's debacle.

I specifically held off on posts like this to avoid the "its five games, its 10 games" responses from the low standard people on this board, but we are now just about at the quarter pole of this season and this might just be the worst Islanders team since the rebuild began. Now it is no longer just about the underwhelming veterans or lack of free agents, now it is about the young players that are supposed to be the focal point of this rebuild that are clearly regressing. Okposo, Bailey, Comeau have been awful, Hamonic, Macdonald, Grabner (just to name a few) have taken giant steps back since last season.

What is my point in all this? Without a shadow of a doubt anymore, there is one man responsible and that is Garth Snow. I hate Charles Wang as much as any of you, and yes if we had a better owner, things might be easier to make the necessary changes. HOWEVER, there are maybe 2 or 3 players left on this team from before Snow's tenure...this is his team, he built it...and it has done nothing but be a bottom feeder year after year.

He may not have a ton of money to spend, but he had enough to offer contracts to Paul Martin, Dan Hamhuis and Christian Ehroff. Instead of using 9 million combined to bring in four useless bums in Staois, Rolston, Reasoner and Pandolfo, he could have used that money to bring in two pretty good players to help the team. And before anybody says nobody wants to sign here, let me point out that Snow is making 10x more than any of us to do a job -- it is called making trades.

Whether it is other low payroll teams (Phoenix) or other young rebuilding teams (Edmonton) or teams that were in the dumps and are now rising back up (Florida, Toronto, Minnesota, Los Angeles), every one of them has gone from being bad to being good since we started this rebuild. It has been five years now and Snow's team has shown no improvement whatsoever.

I firmly believe that regardless of the owner, if we had a real GM, who knew what he was doing and actually did work, we would not be in this position. Wang is not going anywhere, get over it, we need to be focused on getting Snow out. The Fire Snow chants have got to start, so Wang knows if he does not get a real GM in here, the Coliseum is going to be empty.

Snow has had more than enough time and has not done the job, it is time to bring someone else in who can.

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Old
11-20-2011, 11:33 AM
  #96
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Still think letting the real captian and tough character guys go was a good idea?

This is for the "but reasoner is a better hockey player then Konopka" crew. Or the the posters that post "Pandolfo is a better fit then haley because he's a vetran and plays the PK" crew. Or "Gillies is useless" crew


Well how is that line of thinking working out for you?


Konopka was the real leader and REAL captian of this team. He brought an element that our young guys needed. His grit,leadership, his never back down attitude ect.

Someone on this board even said some of the players were quoted as saying this year just dosen't feel the same. Now I wonder why, you took all the charater players off the team and replaced them with corpse with no emotion ect.
This team fed off Konopkas raw emotion and follwed his lead. Last year we played with fire,passion,emotion ect.
He changed the culture and Identy of this team, teams knew coming into our building knew it was gonna be a tough hard fought game. That cant be said this year. Our non tough players even started playing a little bigger
For example guys like Tavares,Martinek,Gerveis,Baily,Macdonald,Comeau,Hi llen all fought for the first time in their career when then knew guys like Konopka,gilles and Haley were there to back them up.
To say that a team dosent play tougher when it has tough players getting their back is just wrong. Our players played bigger,and tougher played with more confidence with these guys in the line-up.

We had guys standing up for eachother, we had guys droping the mitts to defend players that have never done so in the past.
This team played like an actual TEAM when he was here.

The change from this years team compared to last is astounding. No one except Matin sticks up for anyone,defends anyone has any fire or passion and roll right over for the oposition.

Anyone notice the lack of confidence with our team? Thats what happens when everyone in the lockerroom looks at the next guys and asks himself the question dose the guys standing next to me have my back?
This is why you cant dress 4 lines of so called skill players, you need a mix of gritty tough players along with skill.
I would take Konopka,haley and Gillies over the stifs we replaced them with. This team actually played like a team when these guys were here. Some here will never get it, this is not NHL the video game,sometimes guys like Konopka,haley and Gillies can not be measured on the scoresheet.

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11-20-2011, 11:46 AM
  #97
IceAce
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Give the Konopka thing a rest already, Christ. This team was just as terrible with him. Remember the losing 20 out of 21 last year?

This team stinks and whether they've got Konopka, Streit, or General Patton in the lineup as the de facto "leader", they dont have the talent or depth to be successful.

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11-20-2011, 11:55 AM
  #98
Isles Junkie
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Keep the Vents/reasonable rants in the Vent thread please

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11-20-2011, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Isles4ever82 View Post
This is for the "but reasoner is a better hockey player then Konopka" crew. Or the the posters that post "Pandolfo is a better fit then haley because he's a vetran and plays the PK" crew. Or "Gillies is useless" crew


Well how is that line of thinking working out for you?


Konopka was the real leader and REAL captian of this team. He brought an element that our young guys needed. His grit,leadership, his never back down attitude ect.

Someone on this board even said some of the players were quoted as saying this year just dosen't feel the same. Now I wonder why, you took all the charater players off the team and replaced them with corpse with no emotion ect.
This team fed off Konopkas raw emotion and follwed his lead. Last year we played with fire,passion,emotion ect.
He changed the culture and Identy of this team, teams knew coming into our building knew it was gonna be a tough hard fought game. That cant be said this year. Our non tough players even started playing a little bigger
For example guys like Tavares,Martinek,Gerveis,Baily,Macdonald,Comeau,Hi llen all fought for the first time in their career when then knew guys like Konopka,gilles and Haley were there to back them up.
To say that a team dosent play tougher when it has tough players getting their back is just wrong. Our players played bigger,and tougher played with more confidence with these guys in the line-up.

We had guys standing up for eachother, we had guys droping the mitts to defend players that have never done so in the past.
This team played like an actual TEAM when he was here.

The change from this years team compared to last is astounding. No one except Matin sticks up for anyone,defends anyone has any fire or passion and roll right over for the oposition.

Anyone notice the lack of confidence with our team? Thats what happens when everyone in the lockerroom looks at the next guys and asks himself the question dose the guys standing next to me have my back?
This is why you cant dress 4 lines of so called skill players, you need a mix of gritty tough players along with skill.
I would take Konopka,haley and Gillies over the stifs we replaced them with. This team actually played like a team when these guys were here. Some here will never get it, this is not NHL the video game,sometimes guys like Konopka,haley and Gillies can not be measured on the scoresheet.

This post is spot on and agree 100% with everything. And you are right in that some will not get it. What Konopka and other character and soul players bring will NEVER show up on paper but are essential to successful hockey teams. Sure we had a losing stretch last year but they never played this lifeless and after the breaking point(pitts game) the team never looked back.

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11-20-2011, 12:15 PM
  #100
Isles4ever82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Give the Konopka thing a rest already, Christ. This team was just as terrible with him. Remember the losing 20 out of 21 last year?

This team stinks and whether they've got Konopka, Streit, or General Patton in the lineup as the de facto "leader", they dont have the talent or depth to be successful.
You are forgetting one thing. Scott Gordon was the coach for about the first 20. If anything I blame the 20 game winless games on him and his horrid system more then anything.

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