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Old
11-16-2011, 02:17 PM
  #151
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Malkin can't roam wherever he wants if he's playing wing. He has a responsibility to cover the points, cover his wall. Staal's presence on his line (long term) doesn't do anything for Geno. One of them will have to take a backseat to what they can do. He's not playing with Talbot here. He's with a guy who can do stuff on his own just like him. Why haven't we gone to Crosby-Malkin full time? It's the same argument.

This team is winning with Malkin and Staal both centering their own lines, at times dominating. Suddenly, people want to change that up because for whatever reason they believe we'll be even more productive by playing our best offensive player (current) out of position.

It makes no sense whatsoever. It never has. Evgeni Malkin is a center. There's no justification for him playing wing. None.
It gives him less defensive responsibility. He can pressure the puck at our own blue line and have more odd man advantages. But yea, it does nothing for him.

In the offensive zone, he's going to run the show. Not sure how many times Staalkin supporters have to bring this up, but he can become a center in the offensive zone. First guy in is first guy in. Not sure what it matters who's a wing and who's a center in that scenario anyways.

If you think Sid/Geno is the same as Staalkin then I'm not sure what to tell you. Geno will always be the primary puck carrier with Staal on his line. With Sid, he'll be the one looking to set Geno up, which is why it's not good to put them together regularly.
These are just facts.

And to the last bolded point. Sid/Geno/Staal is the blueprint. But with DB still stating he wants to see Neal with Sid, I'd like to see Staalkin.

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11-16-2011, 02:32 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
It gives him less defensive responsibility. He can pressure the puck at our own blue line and have more odd man advantages. But yea, it does nothing for him.

In the offensive zone, he's going to run the show. Not sure how many times Staalkin supporters have to bring this up, but he can become a center in the offensive zone. First guy in is first guy in. Not sure what it matters who's a wing and who's a center in that scenario anyways.

If you think Sid/Geno is the same as Staalkin then I'm not sure what to tell you. Geno will always be the primary puck carrier with Staal on his line. With Sid, he'll be the one looking to set Geno up, which is why it's not good to put them together regularly.
These are just facts.

And to the last bolded point. Sid/Geno/Staal is the blueprint. But with DB still stating he wants to see Neal with Sid, I'd like to see Staalkin.
Forget it dude. All it'll take is for Errey to say "See how Malkin gets walled off?!?!" and everyone will be like "SEE, I TOLD YOU!!!"

Nevermind that the kid takes about 80% of his rushes on *ahem* the right side of the ice.

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11-16-2011, 02:41 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post

Malkin can't roam wherever he wants if he's playing wing. He has a responsibility to cover the points, cover his wall. Staal's presence on his line (long term) doesn't do anything for Geno. One of them will have to take a backseat to what they can do. He's not playing with Talbot here. He's with a guy who can do stuff on his own just like him. Why haven't we gone to Crosby-Malkin full time? It's the same argument.
I prefer the 3C model with doses of Staalkin and Geno with Sid. However, I have to say I really can't understand your point in the bolded part. So if Geno is a wing he has to cover the point and his wall but as a center he can roam? Uhh, as a center he has to cover the man open in the high slot and in the corner.

The center has MORE defensive responsibilities. Using an argument that says defensively Geno is stuck playing the points as a winger is a weak argument. If anything, playing wing will allow him to leave the zone early looking for stretch passes.

I think there are other more valid arguments against Staalkin than the one above (strength down the middle makes us harder to play against and we finally have the wingers to fill out the top 6).

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11-16-2011, 02:50 PM
  #154
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This argument honestly comes down to people wanting Geno to carry the mail end to end in a highlight reel rush. And those of us that want Geno to adapt his game to DB's system of puck transition from D-man to streaking winger with far less opposition to skate through.

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11-16-2011, 04:47 PM
  #155
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For me, when I see Staalkin, I see Geno hitting 45 goals instead of 35, and I see Staal hitting 30 goals instead of 20. That may or may not happen. I hypothesize that it would come pretty close to the projections with what I've seen from that pair in the past, what Geno did in the Cup run on the wing, how Staal and Geno look right now, and what I know about DB's system. That's 20 extra goals by shifting a lineup. That's gigantic. We're spending no money to do so either. Sure, Dustin Jeffrey isn't a Jordan Staal, but if he comes back from injury at 100%, and can return to form, he was putting up fantastic numbers being the nomad of the lineup last season. Give him consistent linemates and good, solid mins...I think you'll have him in the 18-20 range. He's certtainly capable.

What I question is if Staal is back in the 3rd line, will he have the playmaker that is necessary for him to keep up his current level of play. Kunitz had a piss poor game last night, but he's been pretty damn solid so far this season. Staal really feeds off of him. Staal also feeds off Neal and Geno. He likes playing with guys like that, and really elevates his play when being relied upon.

I definitely see the pro's of a 3C attack though. I'll never ever refute that. I really want to keep this #11 around for a while though. He's been awesome.

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11-16-2011, 04:53 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Forget it dude. All it'll take is for Errey to say "See how Malkin gets walled off?!?!" and everyone will be like "SEE, I TOLD YOU!!!"

Nevermind that the kid takes about 80% of his rushes on *ahem* the right side of the ice.
It's not like half the plus/minus posts aren't derived from this very phenomenon. Steigy or Errey go out of their way to mention someone made a "great" play or two, or maybe playing really well (usually completely out of their ass) and lo and behold I see it mentioned here.

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11-16-2011, 05:00 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
For me, when I see Staalkin, I see Geno hitting 45 goals instead of 35, and I see Staal hitting 30 goals instead of 20. That may or may not happen. I hypothesize that it would come pretty close to the projections with what I've seen from that pair in the past, what Geno did in the Cup run on the wing, how Staal and Geno look right now, and what I know about DB's system. That's 20 extra goals by shifting a lineup. That's gigantic. We're spending no money to do so either. Sure, Dustin Jeffrey isn't a Jordan Staal, but if he comes back from injury at 100%, and can return to form, he was putting up fantastic numbers being the nomad of the lineup last season. Give him consistent linemates and good, solid mins...I think you'll have him in the 18-20 range. He's certtainly capable.

What I question is if Staal is back in the 3rd line, will he have the playmaker that is necessary for him to keep up his current level of play. Kunitz had a piss poor game last night, but he's been pretty damn solid so far this season. Staal really feeds off of him. Staal also feeds off Neal and Geno. He likes playing with guys like that, and really elevates his play when being relied upon.

I definitely see the pro's of a 3C attack though. I'll never ever refute that. I really want to keep this #11 around for a while though. He's been awesome.
If he keeps his level of play up, we might have to move him to the 2nd line as well just to afford it. His raise will be big if he realizes his potential before signing his next contract, and I'd rather have big $$$ invested in the top 6 instead of having 3 deep centers and crap on most of the wings.

Neal and Crosby
Staal and Malkin

Not 4 bad players to form a top 6 around...

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11-16-2011, 05:05 PM
  #158
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I'd be okay for some occasional Staalkin, but I'd keep him at center with Neal/Sullivan for the most time.

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11-16-2011, 05:12 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
For me, when I see Staalkin, I see Geno hitting 45 goals instead of 35, and I see Staal hitting 30 goals instead of 20. That may or may not happen. I hypothesize that it would come pretty close to the projections with what I've seen from that pair in the past, what Geno did in the Cup run on the wing, how Staal and Geno look right now, and what I know about DB's system. That's 20 extra goals by shifting a lineup. That's gigantic. We're spending no money to do so either. Sure, Dustin Jeffrey isn't a Jordan Staal, but if he comes back from injury at 100%, and can return to form, he was putting up fantastic numbers being the nomad of the lineup last season. Give him consistent linemates and good, solid mins...I think you'll have him in the 18-20 range. He's certtainly capable.

What I question is if Staal is back in the 3rd line, will he have the playmaker that is necessary for him to keep up his current level of play. Kunitz had a piss poor game last night, but he's been pretty damn solid so far this season. Staal really feeds off of him. Staal also feeds off Neal and Geno. He likes playing with guys like that, and really elevates his play when being relied upon.

I definitely see the pro's of a 3C attack though. I'll never ever refute that. I really want to keep this #11 around for a while though. He's been awesome.
I'll just endorse this post for how we Staal/stalkin supporters feel, with extra emphasis on the last paragraph.

There's no reason any of our top three centers can't play in any situation.

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Old
11-16-2011, 05:20 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
For me, when I see Staalkin, I see Geno hitting 45 goals instead of 35, and I see Staal hitting 30 goals instead of 20. That may or may not happen. I hypothesize that it would come pretty close to the projections with what I've seen from that pair in the past, what Geno did in the Cup run on the wing, how Staal and Geno look right now, and what I know about DB's system. That's 20 extra goals by shifting a lineup. That's gigantic. We're spending no money to do so either. Sure, Dustin Jeffrey isn't a Jordan Staal, but if he comes back from injury at 100%, and can return to form, he was putting up fantastic numbers being the nomad of the lineup last season. Give him consistent linemates and good, solid mins...I think you'll have him in the 18-20 range. He's certtainly capable.

What I question is if Staal is back in the 3rd line, will he have the playmaker that is necessary for him to keep up his current level of play. Kunitz had a piss poor game last night, but he's been pretty damn solid so far this season. Staal really feeds off of him. Staal also feeds off Neal and Geno. He likes playing with guys like that, and really elevates his play when being relied upon.

I definitely see the pro's of a 3C attack though. I'll never ever refute that. I really want to keep this #11 around for a while though. He's been awesome.
I don't understand why we can't pick up a 3C who can shift to wing when we're rolling the 3C model.

If Peverley wasn't recently resigned, I'd want Shero to go after that guy hard at the deadline. Someone versatile like that who can keep up with our system, take f/o's for Geno and be a reliable 3C would be money.

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11-16-2011, 06:06 PM
  #161
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If mean, we could sign a guy like Jason Arnott to play 3rd line center. He had a horrible year last season, and I haven't seen him yet this year, so that may not be the best idea. I don't know. But he's big, has been productive, has a solid two-way game.

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11-16-2011, 06:15 PM
  #162
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You know what? If Staal keeps playing the way he's been, maybe the Staalkin idea might work. My main issue with it was that I didn't think Staal had the offensive creativity or ability to center a guy of Malkin's caliber, but I might have been too quick to pull the trigger. I wouldn't mind seeing it tried once Sid comes back.

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11-16-2011, 07:34 PM
  #163
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If mean, we could sign a guy like Jason Arnott to play 3rd line center. He had a horrible year last season, and I haven't seen him yet this year, so that may not be the best idea. I don't know. But he's big, has been productive, has a solid two-way game.
My roommate is a Blues fan and he's been pretty pleased with Arnott. Just throwing that out there.

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11-16-2011, 07:36 PM
  #164
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If staal can mesh with malkin then why not with crosby? Instead of 3c just play CCC. Boom.

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11-16-2011, 08:12 PM
  #165
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If mean, we could sign a guy like Jason Arnott to play 3rd line center. He had a horrible year last season, and I haven't seen him yet this year, so that may not be the best idea. I don't know. But he's big, has been productive, has a solid two-way game.
There are plenty of capable playoff caliber defensive centers. Maybe that's something we should look into over another winger or #5 D-man.

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11-17-2011, 04:24 AM
  #166
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Arnott now earns 2.875 this year, if we could get him at the deadline that'd be great. Or even sign him for next year if het fits in for around 2.5. He's a proven winner and playoff performer and is still pretty good. It'd take him as a 3rd line C any day.

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11-17-2011, 08:36 AM
  #167
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I used to be a big fan of putting Sid and Geno together full time....because we know that despite their different styles they have great chemistry. And allow Staal to develop further as 2c...

However, it now seems like we just have 3 line which are strong enough to be better than your average 2nd line. All three centers have a good support man to work with.

Sid Kunitz, Malkin Neal, Staal TK.

Before Staal and Neal stepped up I thought having one powerhouse for the extra 20ish goals combined with the minimal fall off in production made it worth it. But with how well the lines have looked, the combination theory has lost some of it's upside relative to current lines. In fact, if staal and TK continue their play i think the 3 center line makes them more dangerous (and the other lines) due to matchups. Other teams would be totally F'd. Especially if Staal could play against opposition 1st line. Geno Neal, or Crosby Kunitz against your average third line? ANY TAKERS!

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11-17-2011, 10:50 AM
  #168
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X - Staal - Malkin can be successful with a lot of players on that LW. Neal, Kunitz, or Kennedy would all make for a great line IMO. The other two can play with Crosby for an extremely strong top 6.

It would have been nice to see what Jeffrey could do between Cooke and Dupuis so we knew what we had there.

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11-17-2011, 11:35 AM
  #169
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+ Arron Asham for being fiery

Quote:
Neal, Brooks Orpik, Evgeni Malkin and Kris Letang all scored within an 11-minute stretch to start the third against goalie Semyon Varlamov as the Penguins turned a 3-2 deficit into a 6-3 runaway.

Pittsburgh credited the burst to some spirited words from Arron Asham, who gave a fiery speech between the second and third periods.

“It was a great job by Asham,” Malkin said. “He stood up and talked with the guys.”

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11-17-2011, 12:55 PM
  #170
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X - Staal - Malkin can be successful with a lot of players on that LW. Neal, Kunitz, or Kennedy would all make for a great line IMO. The other two can play with Crosby for an extremely strong top 6.

It would have been nice to see what Jeffrey could do between Cooke and Dupuis so we knew what we had there.
I really thought Jeffrey and Cooke played very well with one another last year. Wasn't for large periods of time, but it was enough for me to remember it several months later.

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11-17-2011, 12:57 PM
  #171
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Arnott now earns 2.875 this year, if we could get him at the deadline that'd be great. Or even sign him for next year if het fits in for around 2.5. He's a proven winner and playoff performer and is still pretty good. It'd take him as a 3rd line C any day.
Only problem with him is he's slow as **** at this point in his career. I'd rather have a speedy type like Vermette/Peverley (obviously not those two) who can be successful at the wing position in our system when Staal moves down to 3C.

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11-17-2011, 01:25 PM
  #172
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Only problem with him is he's slow as **** at this point in his career. I'd rather have a speedy type like Vermette/Peverley (obviously not those two) who can be successful at the wing position in our system when Staal moves down to 3C.
Is he really that slow? I really haven't watched him closely for a couple years. He was never a speed merchant, but he could move for a guy who was as huge as he is.

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11-17-2011, 01:32 PM
  #173
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Is he really that slow? I really haven't watched him closely for a couple years. He was never a speed merchant, but he could move for a guy who was as huge as he is.
I remember Caps fans saying his speed was a liability defensively. He's the same age as Sullivan but with Arnott having nearly a foot and 50 pounds on him. He can't have much speed at this point.

I'll start watching Blues games though to see for myself. He's producing over there, that's for sure.

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11-17-2011, 01:35 PM
  #174
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Yeah, I've been meaning to catch a Blues game anyways. I want to see Pietrangelo.

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11-17-2011, 01:41 PM
  #175
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Letang would be a 100 pt player if he had that guy's shot accuracy.

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