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Old
11-17-2011, 09:19 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
What's wrong with Jason Garrison's game?
No idea. Assumptions.

I apologize if Garrison's new found goal scoring prowess is complimenting an already strong all-around game that will make him a perennial all-star.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:25 AM
  #52
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We could have used a goal or two the last week or so with out PP going dry. Don't kid yourself, he needs to score some goals here. Am I happy he has almost a point per game? yes. But he has to score a few too, especially on our PP.
I think MacLean would be confused if a reporter asked if Karlsson needs to score more goals. "What do you think he is Bobby Orr, his job is to get pucks to the net, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't"

If we needed a goal last week the finger could be pointed much easier at Greening who's goalless in November despite top line and net presence duty on the PP. 0 goals, 2 assists for Spezza in November. Bobby Butler, 2 goals on the season.

I'm sure everyone would love to see him score more, and he probably will....but it seems like digging for a criticism if you ask me. Working on eliminating defensive mistakes and finding that medium between risky playmaking and turnovers is still the thing he needs to work on most.


Last edited by Minister of Offence: 11-17-2011 at 09:32 AM.
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Old
11-17-2011, 10:13 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I think MacLean would be confused if a reporter asked if Karlsson needs to score more goals. "What do you think he is Bobby Orr, his job is to get pucks to the net, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't"

If we needed a goal last week the finger could be pointed much easier at Greening who's goalless in November despite top line and net presence duty on the PP. 0 goals, 2 assists for Spezza in November. Bobby Butler, 2 goals on the season.

I'm sure everyone would love to see him score more, and he probably will....but it seems like digging for a criticism if you ask me. Working on eliminating defensive mistakes and finding that medium between risky playmaking and turnovers is still the thing he needs to work on most.
It may be seem as digging for his biggest fan, no doubt, but he should have more than 1 goal right now. I don't think MacLean would say that either, i am sure he would agree with allllllllllll the ice time he gets, and his skill level, he should have more goals, yes.

I agree about Greening and I fear he will be bumped off that top line, maybe as soon as tonight or midgame. He has lost his confidence a little bit.

If he continues to play as he did against Calgary, which I think was one of his finest defensive games, ever, it lends creedence to my feelings that what EK lacks can be taught, and he is learning. I am sure he can improve his shot. My point has been, and remains, that his shot is not good this year.

Here we go round and round, I know what you might respond with! Anyways, love him and hope he can put one in tonight.

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11-17-2011, 10:22 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
It may be seem as digging for his biggest fan, no doubt, but he should have more than 1 goal right now. I don't think MacLean would say that either, i am sure he would agree with allllllllllll the ice time he gets, and his skill level, he should have more goals, yes.

I agree about Greening and I fear he will be bumped off that top line, maybe as soon as tonight or midgame. He has lost his confidence a little bit.

If he continues to play as he did against Calgary, which I think was one of his finest defensive games, ever, it lends credence to my feelings that what EK lacks can be taught, and he is learning. I am sure he can improve his shot. My point has been, and remains, that his shot is not good this year.

Here we go round and round, I know what you might respond with! Anyways, love him and hope he can put one in tonight.
I heard Greening is playing injured. What do you know about playing with confidence? I don't think the coaching staff expect him to score 30 goals. His job is to put pressure and feed Spezza with pucks. Every time he scores, it's a bonus.

EK's shot: not accurate? Is it possible the forwards are starting to know about EK and they try to block the shooting lanes?

Like someone else had said, Fisher's shot was very accurate, I prefer Karlsson's

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Old
11-17-2011, 10:23 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
It may be seem as digging for his biggest fan, no doubt, but he should have more than 1 goal right now. I don't think MacLean would say that either, i am sure he would agree with allllllllllll the ice time he gets, and his skill level, he should have more goals, yes.
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It's got nothing to do with being his biggest fan, there's much bigger fish to fry in regards to concerns about his game. He's an offensive defensemen, his job is to create offense, he's top 5 in SOG in the league, and tied for 1st in points...the powerplay he QBs is one of the best in the league and surpassing expecation by far. It's hard to have a knack for goal scoring from the blue line, it has more to do with some shots finding there way in without help, and sometimes they don't and sometimes they get tipped in through traffic.

If there's a legitimate/illegitimate criticism out there the media would jump on it. It'd be shocking if he didn't put up some more goals throughout the rest of the year if he continues to put shots to the net every night.

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11-17-2011, 10:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
I heard Greening is playing injured. What do you know about playing with confidence? I don't think the coaching staff expect him to score 30 goals. His job is to put pressure and feed Spezza with pucks. Every time he scores, it's a bonus.

EK's shot: not accurate? Is it possible the forwards are starting to know about EK and they try to block the shooting lanes?

Like someone else had said, Fisher's shot was very accurate, I prefer Karlsson's
What do you mean "what do I know about playing with confidence"? It is everything! Obviously you don't know anything about professional sport.

Greening is flatlining right now and I hope it is injury. He is not playing the same game and I think he is playing tentative, possibly worried about his +/- as a guess. These guys all try hard and give all the effort in the world but in my opinion it looks like he is thinking too much right now and should just go play. Just play.

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11-17-2011, 10:34 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
It's got nothing to do with being his biggest fan, there's much bigger fish to fry in regards to concerns about his game. He's an offensive defensemen, his job is to create offense, he's top 5 in SOG in the league, and tied for 1st in points...the powerplay he QBs is one of the best in the league and surpassing expecation by far. It's hard to have a knack for goal scoring from the blue line, it has more to do with some shots finding there way in without help, and sometimes they don't and sometimes they get tipped in through traffic.

If there's a legitimate/illegitimate criticism out there the media would jump on it. It'd be shocking if he didn't put up some more goals throughout the rest of the year if he continues to put shots to the net every night.
The media don't have much to say, but I have high expectations for him. With 13 goals last year, was I greedy in thinking that a stronger , more mature EK could strive for 20? He is on pace for 5 or so right now, and if he has 70 assists, fantastic. But I would like him to be a scoring threat from the point. He shoots a lot so, yes, he is a threat, somewhat, but the opposing team know he has 1 goal as well. If he puts a few more in, do they play him differently instead of crowding Gonchar more?

The media predicted a sorry lot, so EK won't be their target with almost a ppg pace, and the fact that his defensive play has been the revelation of the season. I don't know why people here can't see that he can be better. Or constantly apologize for him, not you per say, but many here do.

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11-17-2011, 10:38 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
What do you mean "what do I know about playing with confidence"? It is everything! Obviously you don't know anything about professional sport.

Greening is flatlining right now and I hope it is injury. He is not playing the same game and I think he is playing tentative, possibly worried about his +/- as a guess. These guys all try hard and give all the effort in the world but in my opinion it looks like he is thinking too much right now and should just go play. Just play.
I didn't mean to say confidence is not important as a professional athlete, I meant: What do you know about Greening's confidence?

What is the difference between Michalek of the last two years and this year? Injury

Kuba? Injury

Butler in the pre-season and the first month or so and last game? Injury

Greening is playing injured i am telling you. And greening is not a sniper. How many goals did you expect him to get before the pre season? 15-25? Well he is in his range.


Last edited by guyzeur: 11-17-2011 at 10:47 AM.
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Old
11-17-2011, 10:44 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
The media don't have much to say, but I have high expectations for him. With 13 goals last year, was I greedy in thinking that a stronger , more mature EK could strive for 20? He is on pace for 5 or so right now, and if he has 70 assists, fantastic. But I would like him to be a scoring threat from the point. He shoots a lot so, yes, he is a threat, somewhat, but the opposing team know he has 1 goal as well. If he puts a few more in, do they play him differently instead of crowding Gonchar more?

The media predicted a sorry lot, so EK won't be their target with almost a ppg pace, and the fact that his defensive play has been the revelation of the season. I don't know why people here can't see that he can be better. Or constantly apologize for him, not you per say, but many here do.
13 was a lot for him last year, it had more to do with getting bounces go his way. I don't doubt he could score 20 but rarely a Dman is pushing 20 every single season. Know why? Because it's hard to have a knack for goal scoring from 60 feet away from the net.

You're relying on screens, bounces, players not tipping your shots.

I expect by the end of the year he'll be at 5-10 goals.

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11-17-2011, 12:06 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
I didn't mean to say confidence is not important as a professional athlete, I meant: What do you know about Greening's confidence?

What is the difference between Michalek of the last two years and this year? Injury

Kuba? Injury

Butler in the pre-season and the first month or so and last game? Injury

Greening is playing injured i am telling you. And greening is not a sniper. How many goals did you expect him to get before the pre season? 15-25? Well he is in his range.
Oh, okay, I get what you were saying. I don't know anything official about Greening's confidence. Just watching the game he starting to play a little tentative, like he knows his plus/minus is the worst the on the team and playing safe/scared. If he just sticks to his strengths he'll work it out. He may very well be hurt. He has had a few chances where in October he would have shot, in october he would have tried a deke, now he is not playing the same way.

I like Greening a lot, have said all along he is a 1st line player with Spezza, but sometimes when a player struggles you have to put someone who is playing better ahead of him.

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11-17-2011, 12:08 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
13 was a lot for him last year, it had more to do with getting bounces go his way. I don't doubt he could score 20 but rarely a Dman is pushing 20 every single season. Know why? Because it's hard to have a knack for goal scoring from 60 feet away from the net.

You're relying on screens, bounces, players not tipping your shots.

I expect by the end of the year he'll be at 5-10 goals.
It is rare for d men to score 20 but I believe that he is one of those rare guys, maybe not this year, but he will one day.

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11-17-2011, 12:12 PM
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It is rare for d men to score 20 but I believe that he is one of those rare guys, maybe not this year, but he will one day.
Yep, don't doubt it.

Expecting any of them to do it every year may be a little much. Criticizing him for not scoring more now is a little much.

Would you be fine his stats broke down like this: 5 goals 12 assists?

There isn't much of a difference, the result is a goal whether it's 2 goals and 15 assists, or 8 goals and 9 assists. I've actually never heard of a Dman credited with being a "finisher"...their goals and assists can often be separated by an inch, deflection, etc.

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11-17-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Yep, don't doubt it.

Expecting any of them to do it every year may be a little much. Criticizing him for not scoring more now is a little much.

Would you be fine his stats broke down like this: 5 goals 12 assists?

There isn't much of a difference, the result is a goal whether it's 2 goals and 15 assists, or 8 goals and 9 assists. I've actually never heard of a Dman credited with being a "finisher"...their goals and assists can often be separated by an inch, deflection, etc.
yes, i like the 5 and 12 better.

Will it make the forwards pay more attention to him on the PP leaving Gonchar wider open for a shot? Will it take a dman off of Spezza if Karlsson is an equal threat?

It is never a bad thing to have goals on your stat sheet!

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11-17-2011, 12:42 PM
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yes, i like the 5 and 12 better.

Will it make the forwards pay more attention to him on the PP leaving Gonchar wider open for a shot? Will it take a dman off of Spezza if Karlsson is an equal threat?

It is never a bad thing to have goals on your stat sheet!

Some really do hold him to standards of perfection. He gets the most shots on net of all NHL Dmen...trust me, they do guard Karlsson with focus. He's the guy teams are scared of, not Gonchar. Most of the shots he takes on net can go in.

This level he's playing at, regardless of how anyone sees it, is well beyond what most of the top Dmen in the game were able to play at at age 21.


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11-17-2011, 12:53 PM
  #65
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Some really do hold him to standards of perfection. He gets the most shots on net of all NHL Dmen...trust me, they do guard Karlsson with focus. He's the guy teams are scared of, not Gonchar. Most of the shots he takes on net can go in.

This level he's playing at, regardless of how anyone sees it, is well beyond what most of the top Dmen in the game were able to play at at age 21.
Oh please.

Didn't realize 5 and 12 is perfect, get a grip! I know it is hard talking about your son, but geez, I already told you I like him, just want some more goals, that's all.

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11-17-2011, 01:02 PM
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Oh please.

Didn't realize 5 and 12 is perfect, get a grip! I know it is hard talking about your son, but geez, I already told you I like him, just want some more goals, that's all.


He's leading D man in points, shots, has a -3 on a non-playoff team, has a developing defensive game but it's not enough that he doesn't have a couple more goals. He's 21 and way ahead of schedule...to criticize his season at all at this point is holding him to unfair standards.

Yes, the standards some hold him too are very high.

Like I said, if you want goals there's several you should be pointing the finger to quicker.

"My son", has bigger fish to fry in his development then worrying about a couple goals in a year where he's at the top of Dman points.

He even made a fan out of CJam.

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11-17-2011, 01:35 PM
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Maybe Greenings plus/minus would be better if Spezza wasn`t always setting up the other team with breakaway give aways. How many times have we seen Greening skating back to break up a Spezza give away. Players go through ups & downs, it`s just a matter of time before he gets a few more pts. He still stands in front of the net causing havoc & although he doesn`t get an assist on a goal he helps to cause them. I wouldn`t mind seeing Greening with Butler & maybe Da Costa or Z. Smith at centre.

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11-17-2011, 01:40 PM
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Maybe Greenings plus/minus would be better if Spezza wasn`t always setting up the other team with breakaway give aways. How many times have we seen Greening skating back to break up a Spezza give away. Players go through ups & downs, it`s just a matter of time before he gets a few more pts. He still stands in front of the net causing havoc & although he doesn`t get an assist on a goal he helps to cause them. I wouldn`t mind seeing Greening with Butler & maybe Da Costa or Z. Smith at centre.
I'm not sure that anyones brought up Greening's +/-.

edit: nevermind

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11-17-2011, 01:41 PM
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He's leading D man in points, shots, has a -3 on a non-playoff team, has a developing defensive game but it's not enough that he doesn't have a couple more goals. He's 21 and way ahead of schedule...to criticize his season at all at this point is holding him to unfair standards.

Yes, the standards some hold him too are very high.

Like I said, if you want goals there's several you should be pointing the finger to quicker.

"My son", has bigger fish to fry in his development then worrying about a couple goals in a year where he's at the top of Dman points.

He even made a fan out of CJam.
yes, it is not enough. I . want. more.

Just kidding, I know, i know, the guys has been awesome. How about we do this?

Dear Santa,

For my Christmas wish list can you please send some goals in Erik Karlsson's stick? He is awesome and all but I want more goals.

Sincerely,

little coladin




How's that?

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11-17-2011, 01:43 PM
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yes, it is not enough. I . want. more.

Just kidding, I know, i know, the guys has been awesome. How about we do this?

Dear Santa,

For my Christmas wish list can you please send some goals in Erik Karlsson's stick? He is awesome and all but I want more goals.

Sincerely,

little coladin




How's that?
We both win.

Don't think it's a long-term issue, that's all. In the short term, he's doing better than anyone expected....at both ends.

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11-17-2011, 05:10 PM
  #71
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Only, Byfuglien has as many shots as EK, only 3 goals 8 assts, -6. He's regarded as having a 'cannon'.

An assist is as valuable as a goal. Erik's been robbed a few times in close, thinking back to the rangers game. He'll probably put a stretch together were he'll get 4 in 6 or something, then go on a drought.

It's a nice to have, but I don't think anyone should be overly concerned.

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11-17-2011, 05:20 PM
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We could have used a goal or two the last week or so with out PP going dry. Don't kid yourself, he needs to score some goals here. Am I happy he has almost a point per game? yes. But he has to score a few too, especially on our PP.
Did I miss the part where a goal is worth more than an assist on the scoreboard? EK's got 17 points in 19 games, that's boss.

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11-17-2011, 05:45 PM
  #73
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it seems like karlssons stick breaks twice a game, anyone notice that ?

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11-17-2011, 05:47 PM
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it seems like karlssons stick breaks twice a game, anyone notice that ?
Yes, he has powerful looking arms.

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11-17-2011, 05:57 PM
  #75
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Yes, he has powerful looking arms.
Has little to nothing to do with arms.

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