His teammates aren't surprised by his overall dominance.
"I've always seen it, ever since I've been here," right wing James Neal said. "I saw it in juniors, too. That talent has always been there. It just gets overshadowed because of how great defensively he is."
.....
Bylsma theorizes that Staal's understanding of his own ability is leading to the maturation of his offensive game.
"Trying to toe-drag is not where he's strong," Bylsma said. "But when he skates and uses his size, it gives him a chance to make plays and go to the net. When he stays in that box, he can show a lot of offensive prowess."
Teams wishing to focus on Crosby and Malkin likely will be burned if they pay Staal no attention.
"Nobody focuses on him scoring goals," defenseman Kris Letang said. "He was a guy who could play 22 minutes a night in all situations. But now when you see his shot, his size, and how he's going to the net, you understand why he's been so good offensively."
To put Staal's surge in perspective, consider that he has scored 19 goals in his past 57 games. In Washington star Alex Ovechkin's past 57 games, he has scored 25 goals. In Malkin's past 57 games, he has scored 23 goals.
Staal is starting to produce like a star, and his intangibles have never been questioned.
So hypothetically, what if Jordan Staal out produces Johnny Toes? Staal would already be a better defensive player but in a 2nd line centre role (3rd line once Sid comes back) and sometimes gets time on the powerplay, got more goals/points than a player playing the role of a 1st line centre/1st line powerplay with way better offensive weapons on his line pretty much every single shift.
Would it at least open back up the "Who was the best pick of 2006?" debate?
I don;t think he will. Based on stats (oh help me god).
Staal is playing well but if you look at his shooting % you will see that is far above his average while he is close to averaging the same amount of shots. Firstly I don't believe he can maintain that shooting % for the year. I still believe he will reach the 30 goal mark. Secondly when Crosby that will take players that were playing with staal. This means he will find it harder to get assists if not on a PP unit.
Toews stats remain pretty consistant across the board. because he will have the same players around him all year he should be able to gather more assists. Toews also has been a 1st center and shown success doing so. Staal while playing well has not.
So hypothetically, what if Jordan Staal out produces Johnny Toes? Staal would already be a better defensive player but in a 2nd line centre role (3rd line once Sid comes back) and sometimes gets time on the powerplay, got more goals/points than a player playing the role of a 1st line centre/1st line powerplay with way better offensive weapons on his line pretty much every single shift.
Would it at least open back up the "Who was the best pick of 2006?" debate?
Unlikely but I could definitely see Staal finishing within 10 points of Toews which would definitely be impressive given the difference in linemates. Toews has very good defense to so there isn't a big gap there either.
Bylsma is right that he needs to play within his skills. He doesn't have elite hands but he has a serviceable set that combine with his size & speed he can do some real damage. He needs to be a down hill player. One move and push to the net. Still developing as a player.
So hypothetically, what if Jordan Staal out produces Johnny Toes? Staal would already be a better defensive player but in a 2nd line centre role (3rd line once Sid comes back) and sometimes gets time on the powerplay, got more goals/points than a player playing the role of a 1st line centre/1st line powerplay with way better offensive weapons on his line pretty much every single shift.
Would it at least open back up the "Who was the best pick of 2006?" debate?
Toews is a Selke guy too.
What Staal really has on him is size
I think that debate has been opened since 2006. You can't judge guys so quickly, especially when what is happening is what scouts said would happen. They said Staal had the most seasoning to do, but he very well could be the best player in that draft.
That Penguins center Jordan Staal ripped into his teammates following a sloppy first period against Colorado on Tuesday is no surprise. Leadership has always come naturally to him.
I was not aware that he is seen as a leader in the clubhouse.
Quote:
"That talent has always been there." - James Neal
Hey he said it. Don't take my word for it.
Quote:
Left wing Matt Cooke, a longtime Staal linemate, said the center only needed time.
"I don't think that he's playing in a way that he's never played before," Cooke said.
That is exactly how I feel.
Quote:
Bylsma theorizes that Staal's understanding of his own ability is leading to the maturation of his offensive game.
As good an explanation as any.
Quote:
"Nobody focuses on him scoring goals," defenseman Kris Letang said. "He was a guy who could play 22 minutes a night in all situations. But now when you see his shot, his size, and how he's going to the net, you understand why he's been so good offensively."
Reference to his shot. I never could understand why people use to say that he couldn't shoot. He's always had a pretty good shot.
Quote:
"Right now, he is unbelievable," Neal said. "The way he skates, everything. He's at the top of the league in terms of being a shutdown defender. But now, he is offensively as well. He can do it all."
Reference to his skating. I never could understand why people use to say that he couldn't skate. Well actually I could understand that one a little bit because he did sometimes seem like he was surprised when the puck found it's way to him, but at the same time he's got deceptive speed and he really is pretty agile for his size.
Love the article. Nothing better than letting the players speak for me. I know there's a question of credibility when I voice my own opinion but it's harder to question these things when the players are saying it too.
I'm going to be honest and say I am still worried Staal will go back to being a goober on skates. He is playing very well, but it is like deja vu with him it...
Staal plays like a beast for a couple of weeks, we all get excited, then we wake up and hear "I got you babe" playing on the radio.
The last couple of games he was making passes I never saw him do before... he laid out a sweet backhand saucer pass for Cooke that lead him perfectly into the attacking zone on one rush - and it sound simple, but it was a play I didn't think Staal could ever make.
I'm going to wait until the end of the year before I believe he has found the consistency to be a dominant player that others teams have to truly fear with the puck on his stick.
I'm going to be honest and say I am still worried Staal will go back to being a goober on skates. He is playing very well, but it is like deja vu with him it...
Staal plays like a beast for a couple of weeks, we all get excited, then we wake up and hear "I got you babe" playing on the radio.
The last couple of games he was making passes I never saw him do before... he laid out a sweet backhand saucer pass for Cooke that lead him perfectly into the attacking zone on one rush - and it sound simple, but it was a play I didn't think Staal could ever make.
I'm going to wait until the end of the year before I believe he has found the consistency to be a dominant player that others teams have to truly fear with the puck on his stick.
And that is the key word right there in regard to Staal.
Can he consistently keep this level of play up? I want to believe so because he's still 23 and this is what players do at this age. They start to find consistency in their game.
He will probably go back and forth all year, but I think he will find a way to be on more than off this season as opposed to previous ones.
So hypothetically, what if Jordan Staal out produces Johnny Toes? Staal would already be a better defensive player but in a 2nd line centre role (3rd line once Sid comes back) and sometimes gets time on the powerplay, got more goals/points than a player playing the role of a 1st line centre/1st line powerplay with way better offensive weapons on his line pretty much every single shift.
Would it at least open back up the "Who was the best pick of 2006?" debate?
I love the progression Staal is showing this year in his offense, but let's not get ahead of ourselves yet. Even if Staal outscores Toews this season (which is still a longshot, IMO), Toews' resume still has a Conn Smythe and multiple 60+ point seasons to his credit. Staal's going to have to outscore Toews for pretty much the rest of their careers to pass him by.
I think that debate has been opened since 2006. You can't judge guys so quickly, especially when what is happening is what scouts said would happen. They said Staal had the most seasoning to do, but he very well could be the best player in that draft.
I remember those quotes well. He was pretty much almost a full year younger than anyone else being only a few days over the cutoff date for the draft. But the scouts loved the potential and saw him as the player with the highest ceiling of any of the players that year. The thing that I see with Staal which sets him apart from other players is how he can hold onto the puck and is nearly impossible to get off of it, even with two guys on him. It is a combination of strength, size and puck handling skills. That by far is his biggest asset and is not something you can teach.
Sorry to chime in here, but hoping that Staal will pan out better than Toews is a pipedream at this point.
Toews has already climbed the mountain - Conn Smythe winner, Cup winner, and Olympic gold medalist. J Staal has a long way to go before he climbs that type of mountain.
And that is the key word right there in regard to Staal.
Can he consistently keep this level of play up? I want to believe so because he's still 23 and this is what players do at this age. They start to find consistency in their game.
He will probably go back and forth all year, but I think he will find a way to be on more than off this season as opposed to previous ones.
The thing is, I don't expect him to dominate every night, because only a select few players can do that. However, I am just hoping he doesn't go 2-3 weeks without us noticing him, as he has done many times in the past.
You know Malkin and Crosby will bring the same skillset each game, but sometimes they will struggle because of bad matchups, fatigue, etc. With Staal, I am always afraid the goober in him will come back for a month and pay us a visit. The guy who falls all over the rink, throws pucks into the middle of the ice for no apparent reason, and makes moves like an arthritic Steve McKenna.
Sorry to chime in here, but hoping that Staal will pan out better than Toews is a pipedream at this point.
Toews has already climbed the mountain - Conn Smythe winner, Cup winner, and Olympic gold medalist. J Staal has a long way to go before he climbs that type of mountain.
So now you're going to ignore the fact that Staal is much stronger on the puck, plays with far lesser linemates (Mr. Intangibles has Hossa on his RW and gets 1st unit PP time) and is just now starting to put it all together.
I watched the last three Hawks games. Staal has been by far the better player. He should have several more assists that just weren't buried.
The thing is, I don't expect him to dominate every night, because only a select few players can do that. However, I am just hoping he doesn't go 2-3 weeks without us noticing him, as he has done many times in the past.
You know Malkin and Crosby will bring the same skillset each game, but sometimes they will struggle because of bad matchups, fatigue, etc. With Staal, I am always afraid the goober in him will come back for a month and pay us a visit. The guy who falls all over the rink, throws pucks into the middle of the ice for no apparent reason, and makes moves like an arthritic Steve McKenna.
Just how I feel for now.
He's still young but I think this is the first time since his rookie year that he's getting the necessary praise to gain that level of confidence. I'm sure defenders will try and play him differently now, so we'll see how he responds. Good thing his size and reach make it quite difficult.
Sorry to chime in here, but hoping that Staal will pan out better than Toews is a pipedream at this point.
Toews has already climbed the mountain - Conn Smythe winner, Cup winner, and Olympic gold medalist. J Staal has a long way to go before he climbs that type of mountain.
Not that it makes that much of a difference, but not sure the relavence of a couple of those as Staal also was a cup winner and a final cut on the Olympic medal winning team. Not arguing that Toews does not remain the better player but there are better arguments to be made. Few are arguing that Staal has surpassed Toews, but he has taken a step up to make the comparisons no longer so far fetched and you have to like Staal's trajectory and perhaps more room to grow.
Honestly, I think Staal needed a full off-season and training camp to strengthen his game and work on his problem areas.
He has a lot of opportunities in the offensive zone last season, both in the regular season and the playoffs, but he just wasn't able to convert on a lot of chances. I'm seeing a lot more confidence in Staal's game right now - especially in the offensive zone. I think that extra work and preparation in the offseason really benefited his game in a big way.
Sometimes you gotta be thrown into the fire and I think last year was that turning point for Staal. He was used to playing behind Sid/Malkin and then all of a sudden it was his team. It makes you grow up in a hurry.
This is literally the exact thing half the board was trying to explain to you while you were bashing Staal last year, this summer, and in the beginning of the season...
How can you honestly say this cass?
Last edited by Ragamuffin Gunner: 11-17-2011 at 01:39 PM.
And that is the key word right there in regard to Staal.
Can he consistently keep this level of play up? I want to believe so because he's still 23 and this is what players do at this age. They start to find consistency in their game.
He will probably go back and forth all year, but I think he will find a way to be on more than off this season as opposed to previous ones.
Consistency and confidence are the two words that come to mind for me when I think of Staal. He has a psyche much like Fleury's, IMO. I was at that Tampa game last year where the fans grabbed Fleury and pulled him out of the funk he was in. All it took was chanting his name before the game even started. He needed that validation for some reason.
Staal can really get down on himself also, and when he does...it's never pretty. He needs to find a way to stay up without coaches, teammates, and fans telling him how awesome he is. I think him being put in positions where he is really relied upon to produce validates him also. Every time he's in the top 6, and playing with legitimate top 6 players, he changes.
The thing is, I don't expect him to dominate every night, because only a select few players can do that. However, I am just hoping he doesn't go 2-3 weeks without us noticing him, as he has done many times in the past.
You know Malkin and Crosby will bring the same skillset each game, but sometimes they will struggle because of bad matchups, fatigue, etc. With Staal, I am always afraid the goober in him will come back for a month and pay us a visit. The guy who falls all over the rink, throws pucks into the middle of the ice for no apparent reason, and makes moves like an arthritic Steve McKenna.
Just how I feel for now.
Yep, I'm with you on that one.
Folks will go out of their way to throw stones at me and act like Staal has been this player all along. Hold your horses...
I've watched him play for 400+ games in the NHL and a hot stretch of 10 games doesn't exactly nullify the previous 400+ games. Consistency goes a long way and separates good players from great players.
Folks will go out of their way to throw stones at me and act like Staal has been this player all along. Hold your horses...
I've watched him play for 400+ games in the NHL and a hot stretch of 10 games doesn't exactly nullify the previous 400+ games. Consistency goes a long way and separates good players from great players.
I think their problem with you is that they continued to say this was a process, and you continued to say it was a finished product. The main argument against your Staal debate was that he DID still have growing to do to eventually become this player. That's the reason they are throwing stones.
However, we HAVE seen this in a shorter period from Staal. I think it comes down to seeing it for a long-term stretch. If he can do this for a full season then everybody wins in Pittsburgh.
Consistency and confidence are the two words that come to mind for me when I think of Staal. He has a psyche much like Fleury's, IMO. I was at that Tampa game last year where the fans grabbed Fleury and pulled him out of the funk he was in. All it took was chanting his name before the game even started. He needed that validation for some reason.
Staal can really get down on himself also, and when he does...it's never pretty. He needs to find a way to stay up without coaches, teammates, and fans telling him how awesome he is. I think him being put in positions where he is really relied upon to produce validates him also. Every time he's in the top 6, and playing with legitimate top 6 players, he changes.
