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Old
11-17-2011, 10:16 AM
  #26
JTG
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I'd be interested to read opinions if the same conversation were expanded to "Big 5" to include Letang and Fleury.
I don't know if there would be any opinions that would differ. Maybe now that Neal is here, I suppose. Picking him our Staal for that 5th spot would be tough.

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11-17-2011, 10:26 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BLACKnYELLOW66 View Post
I love Staalzy n all, but man oh man I'd have a hard time taking him over Geno, even if he does continue to develop his offensive game the way he has been, and even if it does mean keeping Neal long term. Granted, Geno has become quite injury prone and it's anybody's guess as to whether or not he can replicate the Malkin we saw in 07/08 and 08/09. But man oh man, there's just something about having both him and Sid on the same team that would leave a huge void if he were to leave...
Oh definitely, and I may be off my rocker believing that. It all comes down to what Staal and Neal get, as well as the negotiations with Letang and Malkin. If Staal is 5.5+mil, Neal 4.5+, and Letang wants 7mil, then can we afford Geno at 9+? With the cap rising, we probably could.

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Old
11-17-2011, 10:31 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BLACKnYELLOW66 View Post
I love Staalzy n all, but man oh man I'd have a hard time taking him over Geno, even if he does continue to develop his offensive game the way he has been, and even if it does mean keeping Neal long term. Granted, Geno has become quite injury prone and it's anybody's guess as to whether or not he can replicate the Malkin we saw in 07/08 and 08/09. But man oh man, there's just something about having both him and Sid on the same team that would leave a huge void if he were to leave...
I think a more interesting conversation would be this...

Not saying it would come down to this, just a hypothetical, but if you had to choose Neal and Staal, or Geno...what would you choose.

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11-17-2011, 10:37 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I think a more interesting conversation would be this...

Not saying it would come down to this, just a hypothetical, but if you had to choose Neal and Staal, or Geno...what would you choose.
Right and that's what I was getting at. Realistically, it may come down to having a solid second line center with a great supporting cast, or fantastic 2nd line center and garbage wingers. The good thing is we have time to see what Neal signs for as well as watch Staal and Malkin develop for this season and next before that becomes a real possibility.

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Old
11-17-2011, 10:44 AM
  #30
Le Magnifique 66
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Personally I would trade Staal and keep Malkin, but logically if they are to trade one it's probably going to be Malkin cause the return would be much better than trading Jordan. I hope they all agree to cap friendly contracts and stay in Pittsburgh

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11-17-2011, 10:47 AM
  #31
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It all depends on Sid's next contract.

If he signs a cap friendly "I want to stay here and win" type of deal, the rest of the dominoes should fall.

If they trade anyone, it should be Staal. Nothing will ever beat a 1-2 combo like Geno and Sid, and the return for Staal should be more than enough to replenish the reserves.

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Old
11-17-2011, 10:47 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
Personally I would trade Staal and keep Malkin, but logically if they are to trade one it's probably going to be Malkin cause the return would be much better than trading Jordan. I hope they all agree to cap friendly contracts and stay in Pittsburgh
But it's not about return. It's about winning hockey games.

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Old
11-17-2011, 10:51 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
But it's not about return. It's about winning hockey games.
And the return we would get wouldn't help us win hockey games? Like I said I wouldn't deal Malkin and Staal would be the one I move but I'm sure that if a decision is made one day and 1 of them is moved I'm sure the Pens would trade Malkin

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11-17-2011, 10:53 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
And the return we would get wouldn't help us win hockey games? Like I said I wouldn't deal Malkin and Staal would be the one I move but I'm sure that if a decision is made one day and 1 of them is moved I'm sure the Pens would trade Malkin
Not immediately, it sure wouldn't. If/when we're in the position to deal Malkin or Staal, odds are they are in the last year of their deals, and we're looking at picks and prospects.

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11-17-2011, 10:56 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Not immediately, it sure wouldn't. If/when we're in the position to deal Malkin or Staal, odds are they are in the last year of their deals, and we're looking at picks and prospects.
Hopefully it's not the case and we keep both.

Maybe they will sign and trade either to a team and ask for more then picks and prospects. And if they trade for picks, it better be to a lottery team

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Old
11-17-2011, 11:02 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Not immediately, it sure wouldn't. If/when we're in the position to deal Malkin or Staal, odds are they are in the last year of their deals, and we're looking at picks and prospects.
Malkin also got a no movement clause during that last year. The year he would have been an UFA

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11-17-2011, 11:40 AM
  #37
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Depending how much the Cap increases, I don't see why Shero can't retain all 6 of them (Sid, Geno, Staal, Fleury, Letang, Neal). Granted they would get more $$ on the open market, but he is a smart man and works his magic often.

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11-17-2011, 01:33 PM
  #38
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I think Shero will be able to retain all of them. Sid and Geno, I really don't expect their raises to cost us that much, if cost us at all. Staal, Neal, and Letang...their raises are some cause for concern. I wouldn't speculate on numbers yet, especially with Staal and Letang. There's some time to go there.

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Old
11-17-2011, 02:03 PM
  #39
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-If Sid is back to full health and better than ever
-If Staal has become the 70 pt dominant two way center we all want him to be
-If Neal has resigned for a fair contract (4.5?)
-If our top prospects are NHL ready in their projected roles

I'm dangling Geno if the choice is between him and two of Letang, Staal and Neal.

Pray we never have to make that choice.

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Old
11-17-2011, 02:49 PM
  #40
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I'd much rather see us trading a Paul Martin and giving one of our D prospects a chance in a year or two then loose any of the core guys.

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Old
11-17-2011, 03:26 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by stefanh View Post
I'd much rather see us trading a Paul Martin and giving one of our D prospects a chance in a year or two then loose any of the core guys.
This.

To me, the most important thing to consider when dealing w/ the upper limit of the cap is surplus value (actual value minus cap hit). When healthy, Crosby has one of the biggest surplus values in the league. Letang is up there too. Martin looks to have the biggest negative surplus value on the team. Hopefully, he's first out the door if we need to make room. Although he has a limited NMC, of which the details are not known.

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Old
11-17-2011, 03:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
It all depends on Sid's next contract.

If he signs a cap friendly "I want to stay here and win" type of deal, the rest of the dominoes should fall.

If they trade anyone, it should be Staal. Nothing will ever beat a 1-2 combo like Geno and Sid, and the return for Staal should be more than enough to replenish the reserves.
Yep, exactly.

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Old
11-17-2011, 03:43 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Lamar Latrell View Post
This.

To me, the most important thing to consider when dealing w/ the upper limit of the cap is surplus value (actual value minus cap hit). When healthy, Crosby has one of the biggest surplus values in the league. Letang is up there too. Martin looks to have the biggest negative surplus value on the team. Hopefully, he's first out the door if we need to make room. Although he has a limited NMC, of which the details are not known.
You absolutely get rid of Martin for the sake of clearing cap space. IMO there shouldn't even be a debate.

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Old
11-17-2011, 03:46 PM
  #44
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You guys are a bit crazy for wanting to get rid of Martin. It's absolutely insane. Just remember this post when you guys are praising the **** out of him and Michalek later in the year.

This is why the guy gets perceived as overrated and underrated at the same time.


edit: Let's keep the Martin discussion in the Martin thread. If you wish to respond, just copy/paste over to that thread. I do not wish to derail this thread.

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Old
11-17-2011, 04:16 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You guys are a bit crazy for wanting to get rid of Martin. It's absolutely insane. Just remember this post when you guys are praising the **** out of him and Michalek later in the year.

This is why the guy gets perceived as overrated and underrated at the same time.


edit: Let's keep the Martin discussion in the Martin thread. If you wish to respond, just copy/paste over to that thread. I do not wish to derail this thread.
But this isn't about getting Martin for the sake of getting rid of a player who hasn't played well. He absolutely will come around.

But in terms of keeping the others being mentioned, it's really a no brainer isn't it? Morrow or Despres at least have the potential of replacing Martin. I don't think anyone in our system will ever come close to replacing Neal, Geno, Sid, Letang, or even this current Staal we're seeing.

I mean if it comes to keeping Martin over any of the above mentioned, what's there really to think about?

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Old
11-17-2011, 04:17 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You guys are a bit crazy for wanting to get rid of Martin. It's absolutely insane. Just remember this post when you guys are praising the **** out of him and Michalek later in the year.

This is why the guy gets perceived as overrated and underrated at the same time.


edit: Let's keep the Martin discussion in the Martin thread. If you wish to respond, just copy/paste over to that thread. I do not wish to derail this thread.
They're talking about getting rid of Martin for needed cap-space should the situation arise, so they don't trade Geno/Letang/Neal/Staal instead..

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