You should check out LA's board and see what they think about Richards' questionable leadership skills. They love the way he's gathering the players around him before face offs and telling them where to go. He's running the PP and both he and Gags have been huge for them. In fact Gags made a comment that he's never been happier than he has been this season.
As I said... it was a rumor.
Since the day the trades were made, I've touted the fact that I think the Richie trade was a mistake... both in terms of the reasoning and the value we got.
If "leadership" was a reason Richards was seriously traded, we just should have given the "C" to Pronger and made Richie an "A". Nothing wrong w/ that IMO. Richards was the consummate Flyer... always gave 110%, was never afraid to get physical, incredibly responsible defensively, etc.
I really wish we had him back w/ this team. I think getting rid of Carter was an excellent move, due to his affinity to come up small in the playoffs and the fact that he seems injury prone. I also think he's easy to shut down when teams really need to (ie. the playoffs). And I think we got great return for Carter.
For Richards though? We got a guy that we HOPE will turn into Richards (Schenn... probably <40% chance he becomes Richards or better), a 3rd line winger (Simmonds), and a 2nd round pick. Just not enough value to give Richie up IMO.
I was (and still am) happy about the Carter trade but I think we got the short end of the Richie trade... as I said, how amazing would it be to have this lineup?
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Richards-Briere
Talbot-Read-Voracek
Harry Z-Couturier-Rinaldo
Pronger-Carle
Meszaros-Coburn
Timonen-Gustafsson
Bryzgalov-Bobrovsky
I think we'd be even better offensively, better on the PK, better defensively (in terms of forwards), and I think we'd be the favorites to come out of the East.
You should check out LA's board and see what they think about Richards' questionable leadership skills. They love the way he's gathering the players around him before face offs and telling them where to go. He's running the PP and both he and Gags have been huge for them. In fact Gags made a comment that he's never been happier than he has been this season.
Well you would buck up your idea's when you get traded for so called "leadership issues" wouldn't you lol.
No one is able to demonstrate how carter was a negative without pointing to unbacked allegations.
And what part of my argument is blindly loyal to carter? Not a single point I've made has been refuted with anything resembling a logical argument.
I'm not saying that Carter's life is ruined, I'm simply stating that taking all of the circumstances into account the trade was a dick move. Additionally, I think it's bad business to set an image around the league that we'll sign contracts like this one and then go back on good faith negotiations like that
Unbacked allegations? Here's the proof: On June 23, the Flyers traded Carter to Columbus and Richards to LA. Two franchise players, from the deepest draft in history, the faces of the franchise, on long term contracts with friendly cap hits.
I think they gave Carter the contract to match Richards', then realized it was a mistake, so they got rid of both of them. Over 20 years and $100M+ off the books, and improved the team immensely in the process, in terms of youth, depth, leadership and dressing room atmosphere.
They are playing like a true team now, for whatever reason.
Unbacked allegations? Here's the proof: On June 23, the Flyers traded Carter to Columbus and Richards to LA. Two franchise players, from the deepest draft in history, the faces of the franchise, on long term contracts with friendly cap hits.
I think they gave Carter the contract to match Richards', then realized it was a mistake, so they got rid of both of them. Over 20 years and $100M+ off the books, and improved the team immensely in the process, in terms of youth, depth, leadership and dressing room atmoshere.
They are playing like a true team now, for whatever reason.
That isn't proof.
Edit: wow, that's laughable. Were they not playing like a true team last year when they were tearing the league apart for half the season after going to the Finals?
Unbacked allegations? Here's the proof: On June 23, the Flyers traded Carter to Columbus and Richards to LA. Two franchise players, from the deepest draft in history, the faces of the franchise, on long term contracts with friendly cap hits.
I think they gave Carter the contract to match Richards', then realized it was a mistake, so they got rid of both of them. Over 20 years and $100M+ off the books, and improved the team immensely in the process, in terms of youth, depth, leadership and dressing room atmosphere.
They are playing like a true team now, for whatever reason.
Can you really not understand how you are jumping to a conclusion? YOU are inferring what the reasons were, and presenting them as facts.
It's easy to play when you are winning. They fall apart when there is adversity and lose all emotion. Look at Carter now. He already gave up before the season started. I want guys that have some pride on this team. Richie played with a lot of heart and I was sad to see him go but everyone could sense the separation in the room and it's the captains responsibility to bring the rest of the guys together.
It's easy to play when you are winning. They fall apart when there is adversity and lose all emotion. Look at Carter now. He already gave up before the season started. I want guys that have some pride on this team. Richie played with a lot of heart and I was sad to see him go but everyone could sense the separation in the room and it's the captains responsibility to bring the rest of the guys together.
You clearly didn't watch any of CBJ's early games before he was injured.
It worked out perfectly. Richie is a good player, but became more and more of a prima donna over time. Carter will rush wide and pot some wristers, but lacks that top compete level and has a history of coming up small in the playoffs. It wasn't hard to see that Giroux was the best forward on the team, and would be the best forward going into the future. Now, Claude gets to be the unquestioned face of the franchise, playing damn near 25 minutes per game surrounded by great young talent and Jaromir Jagr, who as he recently put it, is playing for Giroux.
And getting traded to CBJ most likely sank Carter in his chair when they told him, and as far as screwing him I'm on the fence I believe we're not going to hear what the real legit reasons were to move Jeff and Richie, I understand that wealthy people are still human, but for me getting screwed (refering to a job) is working for a company for 35 years sacrificing yourself for said company and then they lay you off and cut all your benefits, in our country's recent econimic **** storm, I for one don't want to hear about an unhappy athlete who makes millions playing a kids game, when my family scrapes by because of the current economic situation, my mother losing her house of 28 years because her job downsized, now I digress, I would like to apply common sense hear when/if Carter gets traded only time will tell, I'd like to see him man up and hang around, I also want to apologize to Carter himself for allowing his situation to fuel a fire of a harsh opinion from me, I don't know him personally and refuse to pass judgement on him, I hope it works out for him somewhere
Last edited by RespectTheMajor: 11-18-2011 at 08:13 PM.
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Richards-Briere
Talbot-Read-Voracek
Harry Z-Couturier-Rinaldo
Pronger-Carle
Meszaros-Coburn
Timonen-Gustafsson
Bryzgalov-Bobrovsky
I think we'd be even better offensively, better on the PK, better defensively (in terms of forwards), and I think we'd be the favorites to come out of the East.
You really think that lineup is that much better than the one we will have if everyone is healthy? You're essentially saying Richards and Harry Z > Schenn and Simmonds so much so that they would be favorites if the trade wasn't made? I know Richards is better than Schenn and Simmonds, but Simmonds and Schenn are better than Harry Z, so while they are giving up defense and offense without Richards, they are also gaining the same in not having Harry Z out there when Schenn is healthy (not a knock on Harry Z at all, but I think it's pretty clear that when Schenn is healthy Harry Z is going back to ADK). And while the difference between Richards and Schenn/Simmonds is bigger than Schenn/Simmonds and Harry Z, I don't think that trade is going to make or break this team. Would they better without the trade? Yeah, probably. But Schenn has only played a handful of games with the team. I know everyone likes to think players are a bust if they don't score 10000 goals in their first two games, but Schenn hasn't even played in 15 NHL games yet in his career (only four with Philly). Give the kid a chance, his defense is supposed to be pretty good and can score too. You won't be able to judge any of these trades for at least one season, but probably even more.
Unbacked allegations? Here's the proof: On June 23, the Flyers traded Carter to Columbus and Richards to LA. Two franchise players, from the deepest draft in history, the faces of the franchise, on long term contracts with friendly cap hits.
I think they gave Carter the contract to match Richards', then realized it was a mistake, so they got rid of both of them. Over 20 years and $100M+ off the books, and improved the team immensely in the process, in terms of youth, depth, leadership and dressing room atmosphere.
They are playing like a true team now, for whatever reason.
Aren't the "winners" and "losers" in trades decided with hindsight?
It looks like we won the Jeff Carter trade now, and it looks like we lost the Mike Richards trade now. However, Carter has barely played for the BJs, though he actually look pretty good with them, and Schenn has barely played for the Flyers.
I'm all for respecting what Richards and Carter (to an extent) did with the Flyers, but they're no longer on the Flyers, and they never will be again, so it's probably time to stop hypothesizing about dream Flyers teams.
As far as if the Richards trade never went down:
It's also kinda silly to expect Richards to be happy with them pulling the trapdoor routine on Carter. I'm not saying the guy is selfish and would pack it in, but when your linemates and buddies are being shipped off every off-season, you might start to have a little distaste for the hands-on approach of the GM and owners on the team.
