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Replace Theo ?

View Poll Results: Which ones?
Belfour 3 4.29%
Lalime 0 0%
Kiprusoff 41 58.57%
Turcot 9 12.86%
Giguere 9 12.86%
Joseph 0 0%
Raycroft 3 4.29%
Hasek 5 7.14%
Vokoun 6 8.57%
Patrick Roy out of retirement 15 21.43%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-14-2004, 11:07 AM
  #26
Jeffrey
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no goalie can beat theo marketing wise ... except 1!
Martin Brodeur .. so it's him !


Last edited by Jeffrey: 09-14-2004 at 11:18 AM.
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Old
09-14-2004, 11:52 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchendoh
I would also put Nabokhov ahead of Theo...
Yeah, why no Nabokov on this list?

As far as talent goes, Theo is right up there with Nabokov, Kiprusoff, Khabibulin, Turco, Giguere. Luongo looks like the next sure thing, but he's only 25 so that may be a tad premature, he's likely to have a rough season or two in the next 5 years, but be very good otherwise. Theo has as much chance as any of the goalies already listed by me to succeed long term. Trading anyone of these for each other straight up would be a risk, since they came into their own with their current teams (except Khabibulin) and haven't 100% established themselves as the money goalie.

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Old
09-14-2004, 11:55 AM
  #28
E = CH²
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Originally Posted by Darz
Outside of Brodeur the only goalie I would feel comfortable replacing Theo is Luongo, and in many ways Theo could be considered better than Luongo.

I think hab fans have a great history of overrating some of their players, but also underrating some of their players. Theodore had proven he is a big time goalie, still is quite young for a goalie, and still has a ton of great years ahead of him.

I mean anybody that would replace Theo with Miikka Kiprusoff is basing that on just one year. Before last year where was Kiprusoff on anybodies radar. J.S. Guigere was the same the previous year.
Not really. By all accounts he played really well for the sharks in the playoffs in 00-01. In 3 games he was 1-1 and had a 2.01 GAA and 0.94 Save%.

Besides he has been awesome in this tournament. He's currently the only undefeated goalie beside Brodeur (Luongo doesn't count with only one game) and he has posted awesome numbers that are second only to Brodeur.

Kiprusoff has always been a very promising goaltender and was always touted as the sharks next #1 goalie until Nabokov surprised and stole the job away from him.

I think it's pretty safe to say Kiprusoff is not a fluke, or a one-year wonder.

BTW you would have asked me the same question last year and I'd not have wanted Giguère. It's not just the hype.

That being said I'm comfortable with Theodore.

EDIT :

You also say you'd only feel comfortable with Luongo besides Theodore, but Luongo has proven far less than Kiprusoff. He's only had one great year too. So you're allowed to base your opinion on one year but we're not ?


Last edited by E = CH²: 09-14-2004 at 11:59 AM.
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Old
09-14-2004, 01:07 PM
  #29
Darz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
Not really. By all accounts he played really well for the sharks in the playoffs in 00-01. In 3 games he was 1-1 and had a 2.01 GAA and 0.94 Save%.

Besides he has been awesome in this tournament. He's currently the only undefeated goalie beside Brodeur (Luongo doesn't count with only one game) and he has posted awesome numbers that are second only to Brodeur.

Kiprusoff has always been a very promising goaltender and was always touted as the sharks next #1 goalie until Nabokov surprised and stole the job away from him.

I think it's pretty safe to say Kiprusoff is not a fluke, or a one-year wonder.
But still....12 months ago Kiprusoff was not a starting goalie in the NHL. Until he proves himself for over 12 months, I real gotta think that he isn't as safe of a bet as a goalie like Theo. I'm not slamming Kipper or anything mind you, I actually am a fan of his.


Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
EDIT :

You also say you'd only feel comfortable with Luongo besides Theodore, but Luongo has proven far less than Kiprusoff. He's only had one great year too. So you're allowed to base your opinion on one year but we're not ?
No I agree everyone is allowed to have their opinion and that is all this is..

As for Luongo, I guess I have been a fan of his since his junior days. I guess my comfort level with him would be solely based on the fact I have seen him play for so many years now.

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09-14-2004, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE ColD
How can you consider Brodeur's success a by-product of Scott Stevens? Look at those numbers!

http://www.nhlpa.com/Content/THE_PLA...bio.asp?ID=643

Even if he always had a good defensive squad in front of him, 9 seasons in a row with over 34 wins, 3 Stanley Cups, Calder Trophy, 2 William M. Jennings Trophy (fewest goals allowed in season), Vezina Trophy and Conn Smythe Trophy is quite an accomplishment.

For other stats:

http://www.newjerseydevils.com/2004/...files.php?ID=3
Anyone has Brodeur's number this year WHEN STEVEN IS DOWN WITH INJURY?

Brodeur is above average in my book. I never say Brodeur is a bad goalie or anything, but rating him in the class of Roy or the other greats is not fair in my book. Heck if you have good defence, Jim Carey can win a trophy or 2.

9 seasons in a row with over 34 wins <= I think Steven was there for 9 years. And he is consistent over that 9 years.

Any goalie's number would benefit from playing with 5 defencemen in front like Brodeur does. And all the trophy (except for the cup) are basically hand out according to numbers.

I repeat, I don't mean Brodeur is a bad/average goalie. However a significant part of his success comes directly from Steven. No Steven, Brodeur would not have a such outstanding career.

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Old
09-14-2004, 02:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
no goalie can beat theo marketing wise ... except 1!
Martin Brodeur .. so it's him !
Kiprusoff beats theo in value. Calgary could get just about any player that they want in return for Kiprusoff. I wouldn't replace theo, cuz he comes up big when we need him. If this would be Replace Huet...it would be another story...

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09-14-2004, 02:33 PM
  #32
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I think that before you look at a goalies numbers or performance, you should consider the kind of team he has in front of him. For example, Vokoun and Kipper did good last year, having teams that weren't very skilled. Khabi was great with a great team, Turco benefits from the Stars defensive type of play. As for Luongo, he was all by himself and managed to put up impressive numbers. Concerning Theo, I see him as a bit of a Giguere; when Anaheim realized they weren't skilled enough to compete, they decided to shut down the enemys offence and closed down the game. ( Thus taking away most of the excitement of the game ) But when the next year ( last year) they were the western conference champs, they tried to open up a bit and Giggy disappeared completely, having a horrible season. same goes for theo and the habs, as long as mtl plays like a small team and defend they're goalie with every ounce of energy they have, sure, he'll get 40 shots a game, but almost only shots from afar and very little rebounds. So his stats look impressive, but its teamwork more than individual performance that created these numbers.

So, IMO, Brodeur, Kipper, Luongo, Khabi, Belfour, Turco, Vokoun, Theo

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Old
09-14-2004, 02:42 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie
Kiprusoff beats theo in value. Calgary could get just about any player that they want in return for Kiprusoff. I wouldn't replace theo, cuz he comes up big when we need him. If this would be Replace Huet...it would be another story...
you dont live in montreal ..?
theo is like a movie star here ... in all magasine in town.. in all publicity ...
all girls love him(or almost) and he's a hometown boy ... no way kiprusoff could have the same impact as him in montreal ... no way !

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09-14-2004, 02:44 PM
  #34
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Who cares about the impact he has on the town, I mean the trade value. Kipper is one of the most valued players right now. Right up there with St-Louis and Kovalchuk

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Old
09-14-2004, 02:47 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingznut
So, IMO, Brodeur, Kipper, Luongo, Khabi, Belfour, Turco, Vokoun, Theo
Luongo might be good in the season, but I wasn't impressed at all with his performance in the WCH vs the czechs. The "amazing" stops he had could have been done with theo imo. Luongo has yet to prove himself when teams need him most. Sure he has a bad team in front of him, but until I see him shining in the playoffs with any team I don't want him with the habs. Kipper didn't have a strong defensive team (face it) and he did amazing as did Vokoun.

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09-14-2004, 02:47 PM
  #36
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1-Brodeur
2-Kiprusoff
3-Khabibulin
4-Luongo
5-Giguere
6-Turco
7-Belfour
8-Hasek
9-Vokoun
10-Nabokov

maybe : Esche with more experience, Raycroft with more experience, Aebischer with more experience, Kolzig with a better team, healthy Thibault

So Theodore would be between my 11th or 16th choice overall among goalies. Note that I'm not sold on Esche yet, Kolzig didn't played well those last seasons. I'd take the new version of Thibault, if healthy, too. This goalie is now a lot better than he was, he's not the same at all. Honorable mention to Martin Biron, I like his game but he's not much better than Theodore. They're pretty equal imo. It makes me cry that the habs once had the rights on Vokoun and that Kipper went for a second round pick. Damn it!!!

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Old
09-14-2004, 02:50 PM
  #37
Jeffrey
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money wise (again) for montreal !
it's more like
1- Brodeur
2- Theodore
3- Luongo
4- Giguere

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Old
09-14-2004, 03:41 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
Anyone has Brodeur's number this year WHEN STEVEN IS DOWN WITH INJURY?

Brodeur is above average in my book. I never say Brodeur is a bad goalie or anything, but rating him in the class of Roy or the other greats is not fair in my book. Heck if you have good defence, Jim Carey can win a trophy or 2.

9 seasons in a row with over 34 wins <= I think Steven was there for 9 years. And he is consistent over that 9 years.

Any goalie's number would benefit from playing with 5 defencemen in front like Brodeur does. And all the trophy (except for the cup) are basically hand out according to numbers.

I repeat, I don't mean Brodeur is a bad/average goalie. However a significant part of his success comes directly from Steven. No Steven, Brodeur would not have a such outstanding career.
I think that we're kinda arguing for nothing. After all, who knows what Brodeur would have done with no Scott Stevens and Scott Niedermayer in front of him and what tells us that Théo would have done better than Brodeur. Still, IMO, Brodeur is one of the best goalies that ever been, way over Théo...

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09-14-2004, 09:47 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
Anyone has Brodeur's number this year WHEN STEVEN IS DOWN WITH INJURY?

Brodeur is above average in my book. I never say Brodeur is a bad goalie or anything, but rating him in the class of Roy or the other greats is not fair in my book. Heck if you have good defence, Jim Carey can win a trophy or 2.

9 seasons in a row with over 34 wins <= I think Steven was there for 9 years. And he is consistent over that 9 years.

Any goalie's number would benefit from playing with 5 defencemen in front like Brodeur does. And all the trophy (except for the cup) are basically hand out according to numbers.

I repeat, I don't mean Brodeur is a bad/average goalie. However a significant part of his success comes directly from Steven. No Steven, Brodeur would not have a such outstanding career.

Gainey , Robinson , Carbonneau , Desjardins , Schneider , Chelios , Ludwig, Green , Bourque , Foote , Blake, Leschyshyn .... yeah , putting brodeur in the same category as Roy is ridiculous when you look at the terrible defensemen and forwards lacking two-way ability Patrick Roy has played with .

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09-14-2004, 10:14 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritone
Theo 3rd best in the world? Just out of curiosity , where do you rank Luongo ?

Its tough to rank luongo because he hasn't played a meaningful NHL game yet.... but if I were just to go by his international success recently... I'd prolly say #4.... then turco prolly #5 even though he hasn't played well in the playoffs

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09-15-2004, 02:14 AM
  #41
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I would say Kiprusoff, or Raycroft, but I think Theo has been a hell of a goalie for us.

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09-15-2004, 12:55 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett
Its tough to rank luongo because he hasn't played a meaningful NHL game yet.... but if I were just to go by his international success recently... I'd prolly say #4.... then turco prolly #5 even though he hasn't played well in the playoffs

True enough , but don't you think that he may be partly responsable for never having played a meaningful game in the NHL? The thing that bothers me about Luongo is he always makes a bank load of saves per game but he also seems to let terrible goals in at the worst possible times...there was a regular season game last year that went into overtime...he was stellar through the regulation time and then let in a soft goal in overtime.
Those are the types of goals that kill the legs of the whole team

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Old
09-15-2004, 04:04 PM
  #43
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I voted Giguere.
I think he's gonna rebound this season (if it starts one day), and I see him with the same kind of talent. And he is still young.
I did not choose Kipper or Luongo, because I think they are superior to Theo.
If I had to rank keepers, it would be something like:

1-Brodeur
------------------
2-Luongo
3-Kiprusoff Goalies slightly superior to Theo
---------------------
4-Théodore
-----------------------------
5-Khabibulin Goalies I'd take to replace Théo
6-Giguère
7-Nabokov
-----------------------
8-Turco
9-Belfour
10-Vokoun


Last edited by Naoned: 09-15-2004 at 04:08 PM.
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Old
09-16-2004, 04:13 PM
  #44
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rankings...

Right now: 1.Brodeur(of course)
2.Kipper(Finals)
3.Luongo(will move up soon nough')
4.Bulin Wall(one could argue swap with Kipper cause of title)
5.Theo,Esche,Turco,Belfour,Nabby,Giggy etc.....on and on...


Future(2 yrs. or so): 1.Loungo
2.Lethonen(do not know too much about him)
3.Marty,Theo,Nabby,Giggy etc...
4.Young goalies yet to make their mark:Fleury,Diepertio<not a fan,Montoya.Of course many of these young ones might stumble or flop all together.

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Old
09-16-2004, 10:26 PM
  #45
RE-HABS
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Personally I would not replace Theo.

And it really makes me laugh when I see Kipper has the most votes, a one year wonder maybe? Remember Giguire before last season? He probably was the Kippersoff of 2002-2003.

If I had to take another goalie, Vokoun. He has been solid for over 3 years now and he is the reason the Preds are the team they are now, imagine how well he would do on a team in the NHL that was really solid.

Ranks
Brodeur
Bulin Wall
Theo-Luongo
Vokoun
Kipper

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