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Old
02-22-2012, 11:37 PM
  #1126
BadgersandBlues
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
It's late and I feel like going to fantasy world. Let's say that the ownership situation gets figured out. They then give the thumbs up to spend. If Ovechkin became available, what would you give? Would you even want him? This is hypothetical, as we all know it would never happen.
At this point he's not worth his contract.

If I could have anyone from Washington, it would be for Backstrom.

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02-22-2012, 11:43 PM
  #1127
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That's my thoughts as well. Even if we had the assets for him, I'm not sure I'd want that contract. While the publicity would be great for a small market, his cap hit could really hinder a team for a LONG time. Still a great player, but unfortunately he's a shell of his former self.

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02-22-2012, 11:46 PM
  #1128
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
It's late and I feel like going to fantasy world. Let's say that the ownership situation gets figured out. They then give the thumbs up to spend. If Ovechkin became available, what would you give? Would you even want him? This is hypothetical, as we all know it would never happen.
A ton. Pretty much anyone not named Pietrangelo. Tough to trade Backes, Perron, Oshie, or Shattenkirk, but in fantasy land, it's still Ovechkin.

If he doesn't pick it up though, it will be another Jagr situation. I could definitely see him being traded at some point, just not in the near future.

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02-22-2012, 11:57 PM
  #1129
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Here's a fun one I was debating with myself after watching tonight's game.

Would you trade Oshie for Marchand straight up?

I think I would.

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02-23-2012, 03:23 AM
  #1130
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
It's late and I feel like going to fantasy world. Let's say that the ownership situation gets figured out. They then give the thumbs up to spend. If Ovechkin became available, what would you give? Would you even want him? This is hypothetical, as we all know it would never happen.
No, but if it were between Nash and Ovechkin then I would go for Ovechkin. For just 1.7 million more you might as well.

It would be crazy what we would have to give up though.

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02-23-2012, 05:17 AM
  #1131
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Just curious as to what you guys would think about trading with LA.



Chris Stewart



Dustin Brown

We might have to add a bit to level it out but I think that Stewart would be great with Kopitar and Brown would fit in great with the system we have here in St. Louis

Thoughts?

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02-23-2012, 08:51 AM
  #1132
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Originally Posted by Blanick View Post
Just curious as to what you guys would think about trading with LA.



Chris Stewart



Dustin Brown

We might have to add a bit to level it out but I think that Stewart would be great with Kopitar and Brown would fit in great with the system we have here in St. Louis

Thoughts?
Brown is L.A.'s Backes, they'd never consider it.

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02-23-2012, 09:10 AM
  #1133
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Hey guys, Penguins fan here. I come in peace.

Heard rumors of the Penguins scouting you guys. I believe we need to add a winger and I came to get a feel for the guy just mentioned above - Stewart.

What would be the (realistic) asking price on him? What are the teams weaknesses/gaps to be filled?

Forgive me if its been discussed in this thread but its too hard to scroll through 1000+ posts

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02-23-2012, 09:20 AM
  #1134
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Hi Gang, Pens fan here. I know the Pens were scouting the Blues the last few games. I don't know if they scouted your game last night. BUT, anyway, I suspect our teams could be talking. Like most 'talks', it likely needs to nothing, but it wouldn't surprise me if names have been discussed, perhaps in detail. Please note: This is NOT an effort at a troll job. Out of respect, I won't ask about Oshie, and I hope you'll do the same with Staal.

Anyway, I assume the name that really interests the Pens is Stewart, for the obvious reason being that we have two top six wingers and Steve Sullivan and Pascal Dupuis as the other wingers. I assume that the Blues are willing to move Stewart (that the rumors are correct) because they don't see him as a top six core guy and because they're looking at a significant investment this offseason where Oshie and Perron also are RFA's (and then it's Petrangelo, Shattenkirk, and Berglund the following offseason).

The question we've been going back and forth on is what the Penguins have that they realistically might give up and that the Blues would see as a good return for Stewart. Here's what I came up with and I'd love to know you're thoughts . . .

1. You'd like a guy like James Neal, a true sniper. I don't think a guy like that is available right now, and the Penguins obviously wouldn't be a good trade partner for that.

2. You'd like a top four defenseman upgrade. Fact is that with the Neal resigning, the Pens as is will walk into next season with only two top six wingers and no money/prospects ready to step up. As a practical matter, they'd probably like to deal Martin or Michalek over the summer, although I'm wondering if either might be available in a hockey trade at the deadline IF it doesn't makes the Pens worse right now overall.

My initial thought was Martin. Martin looked really good with Letang against NY but isn't an ideal fit for the Penguins system. On the other hand, he's a really good fit for Hitch's system. Problem is that means taking a leap of faith that's right and Martin's having three more years at 5M per on his contract. Problem for the Pens is that they'd need a defenseman coming back, one who is an impending UFA, and the name that pops to mind is Colaiacovo.

So, here were my two thoughts with Martin and Stewart as the main pieces: Tangradi + Martin for Stewart + Colaiacovo (with Stewart and Colaiacovo/defenseman of that ilk both looking at around 3.5M, give or take, deal actually saves STL some money) OR Kennedy + Martin for Stewart + Colaiacovo (Kennedy won't be ready until mid-March, but he's signed for another year at 2M and can slide in assuming you don't resign Langenbrunner).

Then, I wondered if STL might not be more interested in a guy like Michalek, given the familiarity with him from Phoenix and that he was great there in a more defensive system comparable to what Hitch runs. Thing is that I think Michalek's value is higher because he makes a million less, so I couldn't see it being the same type of deals as Martin. I thought TK + Michalek for Stewart + Colaiacovo, but I think STL would need to add. You're rife with offensive prospects. The Pens have one who doesn't fit their system in Tangradi. I'm wondering if a prospect swap equalizer might be the way.

3. You've got budget issues this summer and next with all the RFA's coming up. I know that STL was interested in Kennedy when he hit free agency. With Stewart playing a 3rd/4th line role, maybe something that gives STL better budget certainty like Kennedy + Beau Bennett for Stewart (Bennett, BTW, is the Pens one blue chip prospect up front, a guy who fits that playmaking sniper projection and who has a higher ceiling IMHO than Stewart, although obviously even the top prospects don't always pan out and it could take 5 years to get there).

Sorry for the long post. I hope I came across as properly respectful of the Blues needs and talent. Rumors or even breadcrumbs like teams scouting each other are pretty scarce with the Pens, and I think it's the same for the Blues. So, I see some breadcrumbs, and I figure it's better than just making **** up out of the blue.

Anyway, love to know if you folks potentially see something here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Hey guys, Penguins fan here. I come in peace.

Heard rumors of the Penguins scouting you guys. I believe we need to add a winger and I came to get a feel for the guy just mentioned above - Stewart.

What would be the (realistic) asking price on him? What are the teams weaknesses/gaps to be filled?

Forgive me if its been discussed in this thread but its too hard to scroll through 1000+ posts
I see someone else had the same thought . . .

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02-23-2012, 09:32 AM
  #1135
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Thanks for actually trying to make a trade and not forcing it down our throats. That being said, this team does not want anything to do with Martin and his big contract. The Blues are a budget team that will stand pat on the deadline if they don't get the deal they want. Stewart needs to be dealt for another cheap struggling goal scorer, if he's even dealt.

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02-23-2012, 09:37 AM
  #1136
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Thanks for actually trying to make a trade and not forcing it down our throats. That being said, this team does not want anything to do with Martin and his big contract. The Blues are a budget team that will stand pat on the deadline if they don't get the deal they want. Stewart needs to be dealt for another cheap struggling goal scorer, if he's even dealt.
With that, sounds like your guy's Stewart is like our Kennedy this year. We both know they both have more to give. Kennedy's on a decent contract too. We also have Tangradi who's NHL ready and Jeffery, all on good contracts.

Perhaps something around two of Kennedy/Tangradi/Jeffery + a pick?

How's his ice time been? Looks like he's been in the bottom 6 quite a bit...

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02-23-2012, 09:39 AM
  #1137
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Thanks for actually trying to make a trade and not forcing it down our throats. That being said, this team does not want anything to do with Martin and his big contract. The Blues are a budget team that will stand pat on the deadline if they don't get the deal they want. Stewart needs to be dealt for another cheap struggling goal scorer, if he's even dealt.
Appreciate your comments. Personally, I'm with you on Martin. I was just trying to play the 'if they're talking, what's it about' game.

FYI, the guy who I thought would be a better fit in terms of dollars and style was Michalek, who makes a reasonable 4M per for the next three years.

I don't see the Pens being anxious to move him-- far from it-- but something built around Michalek for Stewart and Colaiacovo?

My other thought, as noted, was something like Stewart for Kennedy and Beau Bennett. Kennedy makes 2M, scored 20 last year, is set to make 2M next year, and would be a nice fit in the third/fourth line role Stewart is playing. Bennett, as I said, is a blue chipper up front, with the playmaking sniper projection. Or, if you're need is defensive prospects, I think Scott Harrington is a pretty one who just played in the WJC's. So, thinking Kennedy + Bennett or Harrington for Stewart or something like that (FYI, Despres and Morrow aren't being moved, Bennett and Harrington, while listed as 'untouchable' by Shero, are untouchable IMO in the sense that they won't be given for a rental but would be traded grudgingly in a package for a guy like Stewart).

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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
With that, sounds like your guy's Stewart is like our Kennedy this year. We both know they both have more to give. Kennedy's on a decent contract too. We also have Tangradi who's NHL ready and Jeffery, all on good contracts.

Perhaps something around two of Kennedy/Tangradi/Jeffery + a pick?

How's his ice time been? Looks like he's been in the bottom 6 quite a bit...
I guess what we're asking is (a) could you see a Stewart for Kennedy + deal and (b) what would you see the '+' being.

On another tangent, would Michalek or Martin be of interest coming from the Pens in a deal centered around Stewart for Colaiacovo deal? I'm guessing Martin not, but not sure about Michalek.

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02-23-2012, 10:11 AM
  #1138
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Michalek plays the wrong side, we are set on the right side with Petro, Shattenkirk and Polak. If we were looking for a dman from the Pens it would be Orpik. The forwards we would want are Staal and Neal who I know are not available as this same discussion has been going on for weeks now.

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02-23-2012, 10:15 AM
  #1139
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Michalek plays the wrong side, we are set on the right side with Petro, Shattenkirk and Polak. If we were looking for a dman from the Pens it would be Orpik. The forwards we would want are Staal and Neal who I know are not available as this same discussion has been going on for weeks now.
1. As I'm sure you know, I don't see the Pens moving Orpik, no without a monster overpayment that would make you and other Blues fans want to puke.

2. Just a FYI . . . with Orpik out on Tuesday against the Rangers, Michalek actually played the left side and played one of his half dozen best games of the season. He's played there a little for the Pens and hasn't missed a beat whenever he has.

EDIT: Again, not saying anything will happen, but usually teams don't scout one another unless the GM's have had some preliminary discussions about potentially available names and deciding that it's worth exploring further. Stewart is the only name I see from the Blues. I'm trying to figure out who from the Pens, who Shero potentially might give up, might be of interest to the Blues. As I said, it's all breadcrumbs, but it's a lot like the breadcrumbs Pens and Stars fans noticed before the Golososki for Neal and Niskanen deal (a deal that was, in that sense, 'predicted' on HFBoards when there was no real public chatter about the teams).

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02-23-2012, 10:19 AM
  #1140
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. As I'm sure you know, I don't see the Pens moving Orpik, no without a monster overpayment that would make you and other Blues fans want to puke.

2. Just a FYI . . . with Orpik out on Tuesday against the Rangers, Michalek actually played the left side and played one of his half dozen best games of the season. He's played there a little for the Pens and hasn't missed a beat whenever he has.
Im a big Michalek fan but the dman that we need has to be able to play top minutes alongside Petro on the left side, thats great if he can fill in on the left now and again but we need someone who can do it night in and night out. Not saying he cant do that but Im just not sure. The thing about trading Stewart is that we need Stewart to play like Stewart more than we need to trade him for smaller peices, we will not be downgrading our roster before the playoffs. The only way I see him traded is if its him for another struggling scorer with a similar ceiling(not Kennedy) or him as part of a package for a big upgrade.

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02-23-2012, 10:42 AM
  #1141
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I just don't see Armstrong selling Stewart, he'd have to get an exact player back in return after giving up the original package. He might be bold enough to pay for Orpik with Stewart +. But he himself has said "this is our team" I think he'd rather just see how they look as a playoff team under Hitchcock and bide his time with the sale of the team and the CBA before he makes any "win now" or "sell low" moves for the sake of making them.

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02-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #1142
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Appreciate your comments. Personally, I'm with you on Martin. I was just trying to play the 'if they're talking, what's it about' game.

FYI, the guy who I thought would be a better fit in terms of dollars and style was Michalek, who makes a reasonable 4M per for the next three years.

I don't see the Pens being anxious to move him-- far from it-- but something built around Michalek for Stewart and Colaiacovo?

My other thought, as noted, was something like Stewart for Kennedy and Beau Bennett. Kennedy makes 2M, scored 20 last year, is set to make 2M next year, and would be a nice fit in the third/fourth line role Stewart is playing. Bennett, as I said, is a blue chipper up front, with the playmaking sniper projection. Or, if you're need is defensive prospects, I think Scott Harrington is a pretty one who just played in the WJC's. So, thinking Kennedy + Bennett or Harrington for Stewart or something like that (FYI, Despres and Morrow aren't being moved, Bennett and Harrington, while listed as 'untouchable' by Shero, are untouchable IMO in the sense that they won't be given for a rental but would be traded grudgingly in a package for a guy like Stewart).

Kennedy can't put up decent points with two of the best centers in hockey. He is 25 and only reached the 20 goal mark 1 time. He wouldn't add anything to the Blues. When you can tell he who on the current roster top 9 forwards that he is better then, we can talk. Our 3rd line is likely going to be Steen, Arnott, and Sobotka.

Why would we make ourselves significanlty weaker at forward with no real addition? Stewie is having a bad year, but he has put up back to back 28 goal season. He is a significant upgrade over Kennedy (who we have been hearing about breaking out for the past 3 years - and he still isn't anything more then a 3rd liner.)


I guess what we're asking is (a) could you see a Stewart for Kennedy + deal and (b) what would you see the '+' being.

Nothing, he adds nothing to the Blues. It is kind of like me saying Cola + (But taking out our top 4 prospects) for Orpik. We are not helping you or your current roster.

On another tangent, would Michalek or Martin be of interest coming from the Pens in a deal centered around Stewart for Colaiacovo deal? I'm guessing Martin not, but not sure about Michalek.
Michalek as stated plays on the wrong side. Martin is way too expensive and having an off year.

UNDERSTAND THIS. We have a real shot when we get Steen back of making some noise in the playoffs. No reason to make a move unless it improves the roster. Really, I think we are bad trade partners.

Bottom line. If you were the Blues would you move a 2 time 28 goal scorer for lesser pieces - knowing that you will likely have to REPLACE HIM WITH A UFA at a much higher cost?

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02-23-2012, 11:16 AM
  #1143
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To be honest, I just don't see a deal between the Penguins and Stewart. There just isn't a player that makes sense for now and in the future or that has significant upside. I'd prefer giving Stewart another season. His upside is greater than what any return would do for us in the short term from the Penguins.

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02-23-2012, 11:27 AM
  #1144
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If I were the GM's I would make the moves that help the team. If you can get a decent return for a player that's been slumping all year, then why not?

We (as the Pens fans) are not here to propose a Stewart for "our crap" trade. We're looking to make a decent hockey trade where both teams see benefit. Stewarts been in the bottom 6 struggling...and we have guys that may be better suited for your bottom six, then the talent gap is filled by a pick or prospect.

I doubt STL has intrested in Martin...but maybe. Other than him though I don't know if STL can pry away any of the Penguins defense or top prospect (Morrow or Despres). Harrington perhaps...but unlikey. Now we DO have plenty of other d-prospects that are NHL ready. Strait, Bortuzzo, and Sneep all spent time with us this year and looked far from out of place. In fact I believe the general attitude towards them was "Oh shoot, <player A> is out...oh but look Strait/Bort/Sneep is in, sweet!"

Something like Kennedy (to fill the NHL roster spot) + forward prospect (Jeffery/Tangradi to fill the talent gap) + a defenseman prospect (Strait/Bort/Sneep) to bolster your defense could be done...at the very least one of those dmen could very easy be a viable #7 for your playoff run. Then they would come cheap. Heck, we might even be able to trade Lovejoy.

So maybe something like Kennedy + Jeffery/Tangradi + Lovejoy/Strait/Sneep/Bort? That's a pretty decent return IMO.

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02-23-2012, 11:34 AM
  #1145
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Ok...So I made an offer in the Ovechkin thread and was told it was scraps. Is this too much?

Perron
Schwartz
Cole
1st

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:35 AM
  #1146
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Pens don't have what we want/need, unless Crosby/Malkin/Staal/Neal/Orpik is the piece being discussed. (Which I'm sure is a non-starter)

No one here wants Martin/Michalik/any of the other defensive defensmen you guys overpaid for like morons 2 years ago. (Sorry, but your team -way- overreacted to losing Scuderi) I mean if you look at Martin, he's like a rich man's Cola.....a very rich man's Cola, as he is making over double Cola's salary, yet producing at about the same PPG level over the last few years. Why would we even think of touching that?

We don't need more prospects. We have a pipeline stocked with offensive talent coming over the horizon. We need two things. 1) Top LHD to pair with AP. 2) True #1 playmaking Center. Now you guys have some of those imo, but you aren't going to trade them for Stewart, and that's perfectly fine.

This franchise is on a tight rope. We can't afford even one stupid/bad contract without significantly hurting this franchise.

Best of luck to you guys in the playoffs, I really hope Sid gets back before the games start to matter. I think if you're fully healthy you're the team to beat.

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02-23-2012, 11:46 AM
  #1147
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What do you guys think about Ian Cole for Parantaeu?

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02-23-2012, 11:49 AM
  #1148
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Ok...So I made an offer in the Ovechkin thread and was told it was scraps. Is this too much?

Perron
Schwartz
Cole
1st
Not scraps, but not anywhere near enough.

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02-23-2012, 11:51 AM
  #1149
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
If I were the GM's I would make the moves that help the team. If you can get a decent return for a player that's been slumping all year, then why not?

We (as the Pens fans) are not here to propose a Stewart for "our crap" trade. We're looking to make a decent hockey trade where both teams see benefit. Stewarts been in the bottom 6 struggling...and we have guys that may be better suited for your bottom six, then the talent gap is filled by a pick or prospect.

I doubt STL has intrested in Martin...but maybe. Other than him though I don't know if STL can pry away any of the Penguins defense or top prospect (Morrow or Despres). Harrington perhaps...but unlikey. Now we DO have plenty of other d-prospects that are NHL ready. Strait, Bortuzzo, and Sneep all spent time with us this year and looked far from out of place. In fact I believe the general attitude towards them was "Oh shoot, <player A> is out...oh but look Strait/Bort/Sneep is in, sweet!"

Something like Kennedy (to fill the NHL roster spot) + forward prospect (Jeffery/Tangradi to fill the talent gap) + a defenseman prospect (Strait/Bort/Sneep) to bolster your defense could be done...at the very least one of those dmen could very easy be a viable #7 for your playoff run. Then they would come cheap. Heck, we might even be able to trade Lovejoy.

So maybe something like Kennedy + Jeffery/Tangradi + Lovejoy/Strait/Sneep/Bort? That's a pretty decent return IMO.
We aren't going to trade Stewart, just to trade Stewart. We don't need any bottom 6 help, so there really isn't a point in adding to it.

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02-23-2012, 11:52 AM
  #1150
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What do you guys think about Ian Cole for Parantaeu?
Thats a steep price to pay for a rental.

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