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Gm #20 Kings v RedWings, 11/19/11 - POST GAME LOSE, THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
11-19-2011, 06:05 PM
  #51
nki
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This isn't a strictly Murray issue. Although I can't wait for Murray to be gone, this is a Lombardi issue too. The skill players that are here are all performing as expected, in reality Lombardi left this team with a questionable bottom 6 that has had a few underachievers (Stoll, Richardson) and zero overachievers. When you combine a bottom 6 that is maybe average on paper with underachieving you get an awful bottom 6. Penner although not technically a bottom 6 has flat out sucked too.

This is a very average bottom 6, I'm sure a different coach could get more out of it (and especially Penner) but let's not pretend that Lombardi constructed a deep squad up front, because he hasn't.

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11-19-2011, 06:06 PM
  #52
Jason Lewis
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And let's get it straight its not just Stoll. There are 5 other guys doing jack squat along with him.

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11-19-2011, 06:10 PM
  #53
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
And let's get it straight its not just Stoll. There are 5 other guys doing jack squat along with him.
Exactly

At this point you just hope they need more time. Cause Dean Can't trade out or waive every guy in the bottom six. Realisticly you can only bring in one or two guys (Trade).

Nobody in Manchester is ready (Thanks Bud/Moller). So the Kings are pretty much stuck.

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11-19-2011, 06:12 PM
  #54
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Stoll has 6 points which means he's in the middle of the pack. Not great but nothing to complaint about. And I agree that the bottom 6 needs to produce more but it isn't because we don't have the players. We have the players. We just need to put together the right line combos when everyone is healthy.
.....my god. really.

Come on dude. Admit it. 6 points, 5 points whatever. I could find 10 other players with more or as many points.


**** I will

Jason Arnott
Boyd Gordon
Zach Smith
Frans Nielsen
Colin Wilson
David Deshairnas
Brandon Sutter
Roman Horak
Andrew Cogliano
Kyle Wellwood



I just named 22 third centers in total who are scoring more then Stoll.


Still want to say he is middle of the pack?

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11-19-2011, 06:16 PM
  #55
nki
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Why even bother with points? Stoll has provided zero offensively for this team, especially at even strength, it only requires you to watch games. And "3rd line center" is just a label really, guaranteed the coaching staff expects Stoll to provide some offensive pressure while playing solid defense, he isn't a classical shutdown center ala Handzus.

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11-19-2011, 06:18 PM
  #56
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
.....my god. really.

Come on dude. Admit it. 6 points, 5 points whatever. I could find 10 other players with more or as many points.


**** I will

Jason Arnott
Boyd Gordon
Zach Smith
Frans Nielsen
Colin Wilson
David Deshairnas
Brandon Sutter
Roman Horak
Andrew Cogliano
Kyle Wellwood



I just named 22 third centers in total who are scoring more then Stoll.


Still want to say he is middle of the pack?
Like I said I am not even worried about the scoring from those guys. What should be worrying people is; The Bottom six spending the Entire shift (Fumbling the puck in the neutrul zone, or spending the sift in the D zone THE ENTIRE SHIFT).

That has me more worried, They don't even apply pressure on a consistant basis.

It's one game of ok, then Five games of awful. The top two lines can't play the whole game. The Kings need at least a Third line to DO SOMETHING.

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11-19-2011, 06:19 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
Why even bother with points? Stoll has provided zero offensively for this team, especially at even strength, it only requires you to watch games. And "3rd line center" is just a label really, guaranteed the coaching staff expects Stoll to provide some offensive pressure while playing solid defense, he isn't a classical shutdown center ala Handzus.
Kings regretting losing zus, more and more everyday.

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11-19-2011, 06:21 PM
  #58
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
Why even bother with points? Stoll has provided zero offensively for this team, especially at even strength, it only requires you to watch games. And "3rd line center" is just a label really, guaranteed the coaching staff expects Stoll to provide some offensive pressure while playing solid defense, he isn't a classical shutdown center ala Handzus.
i agree...points aside, even watching them they are ineffective.

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11-19-2011, 06:23 PM
  #59
Josh Deitell
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Can't really complain about much. The Red Wings played some near perfect hockey today. Their execution was consistently impressive and I got the feeling that it was only a matter of time before they pulled away on the scoreboard from the moment after they tied the game onwards. Kings had no answer for their forechecking or breakouts. I don't think any team in the league could have fared any better today.

In fact, we had more premium scoring chances. Howard was huge. That toe save on Brown after Doughty rang the post was a huge momentum saver. His save on Kopitar's penalty shot was even better.

Still loving our power play, even though it didn't produce today. A couple stinkers here and there on a game to game basis but it's so much more consistent this year. Great movement.

On Brown, I don't know what else he could be doing on breakouts short of dishing it off, but he gets pinched at the point pretty consistently. Would love to see him steamroll someone instead of trying to play the puck in those situations. That miss when he had ages in front of the net killed us. Should have just shot the puck while he had the time.

Loktionov's not ready. Tentative everywhere, especially in the offensive zone.

Richards has shown up every game. Kopi came to play too, but the Wings keyed in on him so well. He looked a little tired.

Our defense looked slow in getting to dumped pucks. Pretty bad gap control all around.

Doughty and Johnson should be spread out. Each unit needs a guy who can move the puck.

All I got.

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Old
11-19-2011, 06:24 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Kings regretting losing zus, more and more everyday.
I am sure that Lombardi would have preferred Zues to stay and Stoll to leave, but it just doesn't work that way. To play Stoll as 4th line center would be a bit too much imo.

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11-19-2011, 06:28 PM
  #61
Josh Deitell
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Also, I haven't seen the numbers but faceoffs were really the story of the game. When you lose that many crucial draws against a pack possession team, you give yourself no chance. Not a coaching issue

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11-19-2011, 06:31 PM
  #62
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
.....my god. really.

Come on dude. Admit it. 6 points, 5 points whatever. I could find 10 other players with more or as many points.


**** I will

Jason Arnott
Boyd Gordon
Zach Smith
Frans Nielsen
Colin Wilson
David Deshairnas
Brandon Sutter
Roman Horak
Andrew Cogliano
Kyle Wellwood



I just named 22 third centers in total who are scoring more then Stoll.


Still want to say he is middle of the pack?
I don't know, all I see are a bunch of names. I don't see how many points they each have. Regardless, Stoll hasn't been terrible. He could use some help on the wings or have Lokti center and Stoll over at RW. Like I said, we have the players to make our bottom six more productive. It's up to TM to make the right line combos.

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11-19-2011, 06:31 PM
  #63
Ron
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Tough loss. Need to rebound quickly. Onto the next game. GO KINGS!
It wasn't a tough loss, it was a bad loss, kings fell asleep in the third as someone said above and that fourth goal was so pathetic even all the wings fans that were sitting around me took a beat to realize it was a score for their team.

I was really disappointed with the effort today, looks like we might have the same issues with matinee games as we had last season.

A word about wings fans...a hell of a lot more classy than ****ing canuck fans but then again, that bar isn't set real high anyway. However, they did get a little cocky at the end when the game was well in hand; seems to me they are real nervous about their team's inconsistent play this year.

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Old
11-19-2011, 06:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Alright let's do this then!


Stoll has 5 points


as a third line center on their respective teams relative to ice time.

Filpulla has 14 points (3-11)
Chris Kelley has 10 points (5-5)
Dave Bolland has 7 points (5-2)
Vern Fiddler has 7 points (3-4)
Kyle Brodziak has 8 points (4-4)
Adam Henrique has 10 points (4-6)
Cody Hodgson has 9 points (4-5)
Marcus Johannson has 11 points (6-5)
Dominic Moore and Nate Thompson have split time and each have 4 and 6 poitns respectively (3-7)
Tyler Bozak has 9 points (1-8)
Max Talbot has 11 points (6-5)
Anisimov has 10 points (1-9)



Their are more but I am tired of going through the list.


Face it. Stoll needs to produce more. The whole BOTTOM 6 needs to produce more.

Hope you don't choke on your food when you read this.


Get over the Stoll man love and realize he needs to play better.

1 goal even strength. 2 goals in 40 games. You can't defend that.
I agree with the general premise, but some of your centers are off. Henrique I believe has moved into the first line center spot recently, and Johansson is the second line center in Was. Also Bozak's position is consonantly in flux due to the glass man,

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11-19-2011, 06:34 PM
  #65
Jason Lewis
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I agree with the general premise, but some of your centers are off. Henrique I believe has moved into the first line center spot recently, and Johansson is the second line center in Was. Also Bozak's position is consonantly in flux due to the glass man,
I was compiling the list off of basic ice times, which I feel is fair.

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11-19-2011, 06:34 PM
  #66
The Black1963
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I agree with the general premise, but some of your centers are off. Henrique I believe has moved into the first line center spot recently, and Johansson is the second line center in Was. Also Bozak's position is consonantly in flux due to the glass man,
And Cogs has been playing with Koivu and Selanne.

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11-19-2011, 06:36 PM
  #67
Jason Lewis
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If you want to get in to the fact that Stoll has no wing support. I'll agree. The whole bottom 6 sucks.


But most if not all of the centers I listed play anywhere from 15-17 minutes a night. Some on PP some not. So as far as saying oh 3C 2C...all that matters is that in the time they are on the ice all of those centers have been more productive then Stoll alone.

Again..wingers make a difference. And I'll go ahead and agree to that point.


But Stoll needs to step up as well.

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11-19-2011, 06:37 PM
  #68
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It's not even really that. It's about skill, the Kings have very little of it. The Wings do Dump and chase, Board play as well. But they have the skill to retreive the puck, and POSSES it after the dump.

The Kings lack it. It really odd that losing Zus and Simmer has really exsposed how thin the Kings are, when it comes to Puck Possesion guys.
How did the Kings beat them last season? Did they use a different system I am unaware of? The Kings just didn't play hard enough. Obviously the 5 on 5 is a different story. But, the Kings have what it takes to get it done. I don't believe for a second that they don't have a enough skill.

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11-19-2011, 06:40 PM
  #69
The Black1963
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Didn't Foxy mention that the kings were 5-1 vs. the wings prior to today's game?

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11-19-2011, 06:42 PM
  #70
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I know our bottom six can be better. Stoll isn't getting much help from others. It would be different if everyone around him was playing well, but they aren't.

If the Kings need any kind of help, it's at the bottom.

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11-19-2011, 06:42 PM
  #71
damacles1156
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How did the Kings beat them last season? Did they use a different system I am unaware of? The Kings just didn't play hard enough. Obviously the 5 on 5 is a different story. But, the Kings have what it takes to get it done. I don't believe for a second that they don't have a enough skill.
You of all people should know the only reason the Kings won Two of those Games agaisnt the Wings last year Shellz ......

Think about it I'll give you a few. The last name starts with a Q....

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11-19-2011, 06:43 PM
  #72
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Didn't Foxy mention that the kings were 5-1 vs. the wings prior to today's game?
Something like that.

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11-19-2011, 06:44 PM
  #73
The Black1963
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For the record, Zeus has 2 goals and 4pts which is 50% less than Stoll.

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11-19-2011, 06:46 PM
  #74
damacles1156
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For the record, Zeus has 2 goals and 4pts which is 50% less than Stoll.
Much better puck possession and Defensively. I wouldn't expect Zus to score 20 Goals. But you could at least match him up with Top lines.

You can't with Stoll. Also you can put Zus on the Power play, and HE WILL go to the front of the net.

I even Like Stoll, But I can even see how bad he is playing.

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11-19-2011, 06:52 PM
  #75
The Black1963
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Much better puck possession and Defensively. I wouldn't expect Zus to score 20 Goals. But you could at least match him up with Top lines.

You can't with Stoll. Also you can put Zus on the Power play, and HE WILL go to the front of the net.

I even Like Stoll, But I can even see how bad he is playing.
In fairness to Stoll, majority of the time, he's had Clifford and Moreau as his linemates.

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